> > Does she say "I'm sorry Dave, but I'm afraid I can't do that" ;-D
> daysie....dayyysie.....
Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think
you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
MRSisson
--
LOAD "GPL",8
SEARCHING FOR GPL
LOADING
READY.
RUN
> Anyway we now have an innacurate mod for an out-of-sale dead sim which we
> cannot modify its physics while there's a struggling sim who's open to mods
> that gets nothing done for it.
Really, and since I haven't seen your name on the roster of The Pits Crew, I consider
your comment completely incorrect. You have no idea what we are doing for rFactor, and
we have plenty. I won't even bother with your "inaccurate mod" comment, since *every*
sim out there is inaccurate.
> Great community, thanks to the "We cannot say a word against the work of
> people doing this on their free time" attitude of people like you.
> I don't live in the past. I have full rights to say a word about the
> community and say a word about it, I'm part of it.
No, you don't. Sure, you can spout off whatever rubbish you want, but until I see
you come to me and say "I want to spend my free time helping you do things for rFactor",
your commentary is as useless as a catflap in an elephant house. You have no rights to
utter ANY commentary until you stand in our shoes for awhile.
> They obviously lack the vision of the community, how it's important to STOP
> DILLUING THE EFFORTS and have some sense of foresight.
I've had more foresight (or insight) in my little finger than you've shown in any
post on this thread, why do you think we jumped on board as beta testers for rF from day one?
We finished GN1970 for a completely different different reason than you've even had the slightest
inkling to on this entire thread, but I'll address that later...
> Any mod released after RFactor which isn't released for that sim, is now
> completely useless, even if I can understand the great effort made by those
> people and the quality of those mods.
Quality and inaccurate in the same thread? Methinks thou must be confused.
Let's look at how 'useless' that GN1970 is. One website out of the 5 or so that were
mirroring GN1970 had 2551 downloads of the mod after one week, and they were not even
the main download site.
Soooo...if we just apply simple math to to that, the mod got at least 12,000 downloads in
one week...for a "useless", "dead" racing sim. Yep, sounds useless to me. That's more downloads
than we have had for ANY mod we've ever released after 1 week. Several leagues are starting up.
Several other sites are starting to crank out paint schemes. That's a lot of interest for a
"dead" racing sim.
> Multiplayer in all of simracing is empty.
Oh, really? The 2005 Bullrun 1000 had 45 entries with well over 100 drivers. Our TPTCC league
sees 20-25 per week, with more joining every week. If you want to go hang out on pickup-race
servers all week, be my guest, but good leagues are doing quite well.
> Sometimes it's shamefull considering all the efforts put on it, but yes.
> You have to let your ego at the door.
Ego? EGO??? Methinks the only ego here is yours. We decided, after much deliberation, to continue
to finish GN1970 for N2003. The reason is very simple...we keep our word. We promised to release
it for N2003, and we felt that if we didn't, we were letting a lot of people down. I think the
downloads speak for themselves as to whether we were right in doing so or not. Your word means
nothing, as well as your "insight" into why we do the things we do.
The Pits works on a very simple principle, just as it has for 10 years now. We do the things that
we do because we love auto racing, and we enjoy building things. We don't like politics, people who
are smart asses or self-appointed idiots, so we'll continue to go down the path we've pursued for as
long as we can do so.
When you show up on our doorstep with an honest willingness to help out and improve the community
instead of spouting inane and inaccurate insights, I'll be more than happy to give you some positive
things to do...we've got plenty of work, and not enough people to do them. So come on, put your money
where your mouth REALLY should be, and get stuck in.
Oh, and BTW...GN1970 will make an appearance for rF. Funny enough, it should be much easier to
create for rF because we have all these fairly detailed models we did for this "useless" and "dead"
racing sim...
Cheers!
Jan Kohl
The Pits
www.thepits.us
Please re-read again. I'm simply stating that there ain't much being done
by the entire community about RF, and it's the current present of the
community. I know it takes time and patience, but the more it goes the more
it's yet-another-isi-related-sim like there has been half a dozen now.
I sure ***ing do man. I am a member as you of this community, don't be
elitist on my face. I buy sims like you do, that entitles me to my opinion
on the community. You have no clue what I have free time I have done to the
community back in the NROS era, so stuff it.
Just that "If you're just simracing you have no right to an opinion" sickens
me.
Gee it took my post to made you guys speak. So there was a good reason for
it. Just say it next time before.
Yeah those are the numbers developpers are searching for to see if they
should do a racing sim or not. Better do an FPS sim instead. Man simracing
is going into such a big dead-end.
Yikes again those numbers are ridiculously low from a business POV. Not
even 5 years ago you had dozens of potential releases each year in the
simracing market for the PC. Numbers were there. Now they are 1 or 2.
Multiplayer PC racing is dead.
Again the "Thou are not worthly because you only race" attitude. Shut it
already.
I've done my FAIR share of things during the NROS era, trust me. I spend
complete days doing nothing but help. I don't need you to tell me what to
do.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
<money python voice and schtick>
Yemanard "Bring out your dead"
Jan "Im Not dead yet"
ym "you are not fooling anybody"
Jan "I think Ill go for a walk.."
> Cmon Jan. Don't go on "we all think the say way, please come in #51
> your time is up"
>>> Anyway we now have an innacurate mod for an out-of-sale dead sim
>>> which we
>>> cannot modify its physics while there's a struggling sim who's open
>>> to mods
>>> that gets nothing done for it.
>> Really, and since I haven't seen your name on the roster of The Pits
>> Crew, I consider
>> your comment completely incorrect. You have no idea what we are
>> doing for rFactor, and
>> we have plenty. I won't even bother with your "inaccurate mod"
>> comment, since *every*
>> sim out there is inaccurate.
> Please re-read again. I'm simply stating that there ain't much being
> done by the entire community about RF, and it's the current present
> of the community. I know it takes time and patience, but the more it
> goes the more it's yet-another-isi-related-sim like there has been
> half a dozen now.
>>> I don't live in the past. I have full rights to say a word about
>>> the community and say a word about it, I'm part of it.
>> No, you don't.
> I sure ***ing do man. I am a member as you of this community, don't
> be elitist on my face. I buy sims like you do, that entitles me to
> my opinion on the community. You have no clue what I have free time
> I have done to the community back in the NROS era, so stuff it.
> Just that "If you're just simracing you have no right to an opinion"
> sickens me.
>> We finished GN1970 for a completely different different reason
> Gee it took my post to made you guys speak. So there was a good
> reason for it. Just say it next time before.
>> Let's look at how 'useless' that GN1970 is. One website out of the
>> 5 or so that were
>> mirroring GN1970 had 2551 downloads of the mod after one week, and
>> they were not >even the main download site.
> Yeah those are the numbers developpers are searching for to see if
> they should do a racing sim or not. Better do an FPS sim instead. Man
> simracing is going into such a big dead-end.
>>> Multiplayer in all of simracing is empty.
>> Oh, really? The 2005 Bullrun 1000 had 45 entries with well over 100
>> drivers.
> Yikes again those numbers are ridiculously low from a business POV. Not
> even 5 years ago you had dozens of potential releases each year
> in the simracing market for the PC. Numbers were there. Now they
> are 1 or 2.
> Multiplayer PC racing is dead.
>> When you show up on our doorstep with an honest willingness to help
>> out and improve the community instead of spouting inane and
>> inaccurate insights, I'll be more than happy > to give you some
>> positive things to do.
> Again the "Thou are not worthly because you only race" attitude. Shut it
> already.
>> So come on, put your money where your mouth REALLY should be, and get
>> stuck in.
> I've done my FAIR share of things during the NROS era, trust me. I
> spend complete days doing nothing but help. I don't need you to tell
> me what to do.
> Just that "If you're just simracing you have no right to an opinion" sickens
> me.
Maybe if you had ventured to our forums lately you would have known the answer.
Strike 3 for opening mouth and inserting foot.
12,000 downloads in one week of a mod for a "useless" and "dead" sim are nothing
to sneeze at. Especially since that is the highest numbers we've seen to date
for any mod we've ever put out.
Disagree again, although this is based on my 'insight'. 5 years ago you had
a bunch of releases but only a few were really anything good. Now you have a
few releases, but typically they are much higher quality than they used to be.
And as soon as they are released they are modded, further splintering the racing.
Racers from Europe and Australia typically race in leagues on their home turf. A
few years ago, that wasn't possible, as most of the racing servers were US-based.
Awwwww...did my comment to put your money where your mouth is strike a sore cord? Good.
It was intended to. There are 3 types of people in this world concerning this type of
behavior; the ***ers, the lurkers, and the doers. After awhile, people get tired of
listening to the ***ers because that's all they do, and it's negative and never gets
things done. The doers don't ***, they just get stuck in and try to fix things. You
can quickly decide which group you want to be counted in...
Waaaah. So did I. Yet we're still here doing things. So where does that leave you?
Cheers!
Jan Kohl
The Pits
www.thepits.us
When will you accept the fact that the games we play....yes, GAMES,.....are
nothing more than, well, games?
ENTERTAINMENT. AMU***T. PLAYTIME.
Nothing more, nothing less.
No deep, meaningful, mystical or religious aspects at all in these
creations, Francois.
They are created, in the main, by people who see a market for such things
and who wish to earn an income from that market.
These GAMES are the computer-equivalent of novels, movies, board-games,
music and any other product that is designed to entertain and amuse.
Get it yet?
I don't think that the thread itself is necessarily over my head, Francois,
but your line of thinking certainly is!
(And always has been, come to think of it).
BK
Dear me....you ARE a confused lad, aren't you....or has Alzheimer's kicked
in already?
BK
in the NROS era, so stuff it.
complete days doing nothing but help. I don't need you to tell me what to
do.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Collectively, no. You fail to understand anything about modern capitalism
and the need for mass entertainment philosophically. It's just not "games".
It's the way we live outside the role we have in society.
Sorry your philosophy is so naive it's beyond ridicule. Your nihilism is
not needed here in this thread. I've rarely seen somebody be as further
away from pro-activeness as you when you post here Bruce.
EXACTLY! That's why the need for a strong collectivity, or else we end up
like now, or like the flight sim community has, and we're basically ***ed
because nobody had any kind of vision and the developpers flew away while
there was truly a market for certain things.
But hey it's just a game for you, so shut it, Jan said people like you
aren't entitled to their opinion because well, "they just simrace" those
games you know.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
> LOL...again, you're twisting things to make your point.
I replied on a thread abour your mod with comments about how I think the
community should be doing.
Again that elitist attitude of "thou are not worthy to your opinion as thou
are just a simracer". Gee I guess it must be the same for the simple
simracer who just wants to be able to have some kind of new PC releases from
time to time as it's more and more unlikely these days?
That's nothing to e*** developpers to do simracing titles. 'Cause hey
from all that I see... E3 had almost nothing about PC simracing, Current
release in 2006 can be counted on a single hand and I'm being optimistic
here.
It's only natural development to have modern PC simracing titles of higher
quality than before in history. Before you had a dozen good releases a
year, in all genres. Now you have 3-4 and it's basically up to the
community to do the rest of the work, tweak it, patch it, update it, etc...
That's why Bruce, btw, that understanding the community is important. It's
not just games, if its just games, buy yourself a console, mods are not
needed in their business models. But for PC simracing to survive, there
must be a strong sense of foresight between us. So do you get it now Bruce?
Yet multiplayer arenas are emptier as 5 years ago, leagues have shrinked
down in numbers, sales have incredibly dropped to a ridiculously low
numbers, developpers are flewing away from the simracing PC market.
Nope I was struck by your elitist comment and how shocking you consider
people who just simrace as non-exisitant for their opinions.
I'm all 3.
^^^ Elitist alert above ^^^
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
BK
BK
>> LOL...again, you're twisting things to make your point.
> It's the exact thing you have stated multiple times in a couple of post.
> Basically it's "hey what have YOU done? You have no right to your opinion
> if you can't be up to my standards of what I give to the community". What
> are you like elected or something?
>> You replied on a thread about our mod with comments about how we do
>> things.
> I replied on a thread abour your mod with comments about how I think the
> community should be doing.
>> since you don't know what you're talking about.
> Again that elitist attitude of "thou are not worthy to your opinion as
> thou are just a simracer". Gee I guess it must be the same for the simple
> simracer who just wants to be able to have some kind of new PC releases
> from time to time as it's more and more unlikely these days?
>> 12,000 downloads in one week of a mod for a "useless" and "dead" sim are
>> nothing
>> to sneeze at.
> That's nothing to e*** developpers to do simracing titles. 'Cause hey
> from all that I see... E3 had almost nothing about PC simracing, Current
> release in 2006 can be counted on a single hand and I'm being optimistic
> here.
>>> Multiplayer PC racing is dead.
>> Disagree again, although this is based on my 'insight'. 5 years ago you
>> had
>> a bunch of releases but only a few were really anything good. Now you
>> have a
>> few releases, but typically they are much higher quality than they used
>> to be.
> It's only natural development to have modern PC simracing titles of higher
> quality than before in history. Before you had a dozen good releases a
> year, in all genres. Now you have 3-4 and it's basically up to the
> community to do the rest of the work, tweak it, patch it, update it,
> etc...
> That's why Bruce, btw, that understanding the community is important.
> It's not just games, if its just games, buy yourself a console, mods are
> not needed in their business models. But for PC simracing to survive,
> there must be a strong sense of foresight between us. So do you get it
> now Bruce?
>> And as soon as they are released they are modded, further splintering the
>> racing.
>> Racers from Europe and Australia typically race in leagues on their home
>> turf. A
>> few years ago, that wasn't possible, as most of the racing servers were
>> US-based.
> Yet multiplayer arenas are emptier as 5 years ago, leagues have shrinked
> down in numbers, sales have incredibly dropped to a ridiculously low
> numbers, developpers are flewing away from the simracing PC market.
>>> Again the "Thou are not worthly because you only race" attitude. Shut
>>> it already.
>> Awwwww...did my comment to put your money where your mouth is strike a
>> sore cord?
> Nope I was struck by your elitist comment and how shocking you consider
> people who just simrace as non-exisitant for their opinions.
>> There are 3 types of people in this world concerning this type of
>> behavior; the ***ers, the lurkers, and the doers. You
>> can quickly decide which group you want to be counted in...
> I'm all 3.
>>> I've done my FAIR share of things during the NROS era, trust me. I
>>> spend complete days doing nothing but help. I don't need you to tell me
>>> what to do.
>> Waaaah. So did I. Yet we're still here doing things. So where does that
>> leave you?
> ^^^ Elitist alert above ^^^
> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Missing the point entirely. Everything (sports, cars, white goods,
computers, ... and games) has to move forward. This is the nature of human
endeavour. There is no point in creating something which is, in essence,
exactly the same and has exactly the same flaws as something which has gone
before.
If they're just looking for a vehicle to realise their vision with, why
choose one that limits their options?
If you have so little passion for the genre, why don't you go play
Minesweeper? -it whiles away the hours just as competently.
It simply is living in the past. Doubly so from a single player perspective.
Jan.
=---.
Many games, sports, entertainments and amu***ts, are essentially the same
now as they were 100 years ago.
Traditional board and parlour games, for example, have changed little, with
the only concession to technology being changes to the materials from which
the components are made. Paper, cardboard, wood, bone and ivory, for
example, have given way to plastics.
Sports such as golf, tennis, football (all codes) hocky, lacrosse, polo,
swimming, athletics, ad infinitum, may have adopted new materials also, and
have had minor rule changes, but are still played in the same manner as they
were when originally devised.
Even motor-racing still consists of two or more motorised vehicles competing
against each other, just as they did in 1909.
The games and sports themselves are, to quote you, "in essence, exactly the
same which has gone before".
In addition, I don't necessarily agree that we have to "move forward".
Change doesn't automatically become synonymous with forward progress.
Play Minesweeper?
Because it doesn't give me the relaxation, enjoyment and entertainment that
I like.
You might as well ask, Why don't we all read the telephone book? We don't
really need novels or biographies or humour or technical publications or
periodicals or newspapers. We could while-away the hours with the 'phone
book.
We could equally sit around with a tuning fork that, when struck, emits the
sound of Middle C. After all, that would still be music, wouldn't it?
I enjoy music that was written by people who died 200 years ago, yet I
listen to it on today's audio equipment.
I enjoy movies that were made twenty, thirty, fifty years ago, yet I watch
them now courtesy DVD and/or cable television.
I enjoy looking at paintings that were painted three-to-four hundred years
ago, yet I view them under climate-controlled conditions provided by
twenty-first century technology.
I enjoy working on aircraft that flew on missions over fifty years ago yet I
use tools and technology that the aircraft fitters and aircrew would not
have even dreamed of.
I enjoy some computer games that were published three to eight years ago,
yet I play them on computer equipment that is current technology.
Am I "living in the past" because of these things?
If your answer is "Yes", then that's fine by me, because at least I CAN find
an enormous amount to enjoy about the past and if, when it comes to computer
games, the past is considered by some to be as recent as yesterday or last
year, then I can also live with the criticism very easily because, you see,
when it comes to entertaining ME, the only person I have to consider is
myself.
BK
