rec.autos.simulators

Point 1 - the off-road bike model is more like flat tracking or dirt-oval
racing. Lots of power sliding around corners, which is cool - but the rider
always puts his foot out - hot shoeing is not the way to hot-lap  around a
motocross track.

Point 2 - I never raced on any tracks that had BRICKS on each side of the
track - that would be a sure way to break a few bones. In both off-road and
Superbike mode, MR2 doesn't let you leave the track, hit the side and bounce
off in arcade mode, take a spill in sim mode.

Point 3 - Pity the poor fool that takes even a small jump while SITTING
DOWN, like the vitrual riders do - talk about breaking something...

Point 4 - There is no control over forward and backward weight shifting of
the vitrual rider - in off road riding, shifting your body weight is a very
important method of control while on the ground or in the air.

Microsoft's Motocross Madness (of which I have only played the demo) does a
much job of simulating off-road riding. When you reach the edge of the track
you just keep going, recover and get back on the track. Corners in MMM are
true to real moto racing - large dirt berms that create a banked corner that
you hit standing on the pegs - going fast to plane the surface - slow down
and you sink-in losing speed quickly. The joystick forward and back shifts
the riders weight, controling wheelstands and air time during jumps. Of
course MMM has a problem with gravity equal to being on the Moon...

As far as the Superbikes in MotoRacer2 - that's a type of riding I  have
never done,  but it seems much better modeled than the off-road side. Sense
of speed is very good, in both arcade and first-person views.

Frame rates on my P2-333, 64mb, Voodoo2, 800x600, left nothing to be
desired, very smooth with no pauses. I ran it on my old system, AMD 233,
64mb, Voodoo1,  640x480, also very playable, a few infrequent pauses, but
nothing to stress over. Didn't see any command to turn on a framerate
counter, otherwise I would have reported.

The different bike selections each have unique characteristics in grip,
accel, top-end, and braking. Some will suit certain tracks and driving
styles better than others.

Too bad about the off-road model though - the game would be more fun with a
little more realism there.  Oh yes, the track editor is great, although the
length of the track you can create is limited. I tried to make a 20 mile
enduro track :-(

Overall a good game to show off your computer when the relatives visit
during the holidays. Many of the tracks are fantasy tracks, so there's lot's
of eye candy. Without too much practice, you can beat the AI and actually
win a race! Perfect for those days when you need a short two wheel blast
followed by a small victory to blow off the day - enjoy!

DemonAlleyCat

Based on what I've seen in the demo, the rider interaction with the
bike is much better than MX Madness, despite the latters separate
physics model.
In MXMadness, the rider does nothing until he comes off the bike.
In MotoRacer, you can see the the rider actively shift his weight on
the bike and use his legs.

Don't know how long it's been since you've ridden a 250 MX bike, but
you use your legs to weight and plant the front in turns.
Newer ones let you get the family jewels clear up to the gas cap to
keep the front weighted. Extending a leg further plants the front, and
also keeps the bike from wheelie-ing when you roll into it out of the
corner. As you roll back into it, you need to slide yourself around a
bit to balance traction in the rear vs. weight on the front.

(Any of you guys who are into high performance stuff just HAVE to try
and ride a modern MX bike. They weigh around 215 pounds and crank out
45 horsepower. The adrenaline rush is immense)
L Andre Ming, another race sim and cycle fanatic can back me up on
this one.

The weakest point, IMO. I hoped MR2 would move the barriers back some.
The only good aspect of this is that the "tunnel" model lets them put
in a lot of scenery and maintain the frame rate.
Sort of a trade off to MX Madness's barren outdoor courses.

Again, something that is done now. It's called a "seat bounce".
The rider keeps his weight on the seat up the face of the jump.
Body weight compresses the suspension.
As the bike leaves the top of the ramp, the rider stands and unweights
the bike. The rebound of the springs at the face of the ramp gives
extra lift allowing the rider to get extra height to land on the
downside of then next jump.
You will see this technique used a lot on a jumpface right out of a
corner, since it allows you to jump a greater distance with less
speed. This is an advanced technique, and will park you on your ass if
done wrong.

I don't think MR2 was necessarily modelling this  technique, but it is
used.

Yes, I'm sure I'll miss this. Especially since the for/aft tilt
actually determined if you landed or wracked on a jump. I loved
MXMadess's abilty to point your bike down with the downside of a
landing ramp. They even modeled the real-life effect of the back brake
dropping the front end when applied in the air.

I would definitely consider MX Madness superior, but I wish they had
modelled sliding, more bike rider interaction (you'll NEVER see a guy
on a MX track circle an entire track "feet up"... ever), and a better
on bike view.
MXMadness' on bike view snaps from leaned to straight up so fast that
it's disorienting.
MotoRacers is better, but basically gives you a view of the sky when
you wheelie, limiting it's usefulness.

Both are a blast if you have a LAN. It's the first two games my
buddies want to play when they come over.

Thanks for the nice report, man. Get yerself back on a bike! :)

--

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    (dirt bikes, rat bikes, rental car abuse...)