rec.autos.simulators

by **Eric Jane** » Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:00:00

OK

I want to take the time to say a few things about the flamin on Hawaii.
Last night I joined a race at the Rock 5% D/ /P there was 8 or 9 of us.
I qualified 4th, well on the start I jumped the green a bit (All the races
I ran with a pace before it seemed everyone was doing it) well the guy
behind me followed, but the front row was being REAL honest with the start
I came right up and spilt them without wreckin anyone (LUCK BIG TIME!).
however it stirred the whole field up and I got into a car (traficcop)
just seconds latter, took out the top 3 or 4 cars.

Now, I knew I screwed up, I was just pullin the mangled remains of my
car out of the way and type a sincere apology, when the screen lights up

"I'm gonna get you!! every time I see you I'm gonna wreck you!!" NOW HANG
ON!! Now I know it was stupid, but certainly not intentional! I mean
really, no one tries to wreck (esp. themselves)! Some people (traficcop)
have to chill a bit! I know it gets frustrating and it costs $$ and points
when a "buthead" wrecks you, but do you honestly think the butthead is
happy about it? NO! It costs him the same $$ and maybe the same points
(maybe more!)

As far as wreckin some one to get back at them, DUHHHHH your costing
yourself more $$$$ and more points which was what got you mad to start
with! What I'm trying to say is try to keep a cool head after a wreck!
99.9% of the time it was an accident (weather by lack of skill or
judgement) and the guy is plenty sorry. Some of us can't type 80 wpm and
it takes a while to say sorry! So let the buttheads know that you know
they are buttheads, but use a little class!!

(ATTN TRAFICCOP) IF YOU DO INSIST ON WRECKING ME IN EVERY RACE YOU SEE
ME TWO THINGS WILL HAPPEN #1 I WILL REPORT YOU TO PAPY
#2 I WILL BLACKLIST YOU FOR ANY SERIES I CAN!!

by **Eric T. Busc** » Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> I want to take the time to say a few things about the flamin on Hawaii.
> Last night I joined a race at the Rock 5% D/ /P there was 8 or 9 of us.
> I qualified 4th, well on the start I jumped the green a bit (All the races
> I ran with a pace before it seemed everyone was doing it) well the guy
> behind me followed, but the front row was being REAL honest with the start
> I came right up and spilt them without wreckin anyone (LUCK BIG TIME!).
> however it stirred the whole field up and I got into a car (traficcop)
> just seconds latter, took out the top 3 or 4 cars.

From this post, it sounds like traficcop just over-reacted. He is
totally justified in his anger, but just not to the extreme he seemed to
be taking it to.

The main problem I see here is what you admited you did wrong: jumping
the green. There is ABSOLUTELY NO excuse whatsoever to jump the green
flag. I don't care how the pace laps were handled in all the other
races you've run in; it doesn't matter. It's up to the leader (and only
the leader) of each individual race to determine the speed and timing of
the start. If he descides to go 10 mph and not start accelerating until
right at the S/F line, for the sake of everyone's saftey just stay in
line and wait for him. If you just follow the leader, it will save
everyone alot of grief.

On starts (and restarts after yellows) PLEASE keep the F2 window toggled
so that you can see the interval between you and the cars infront and
behind you. If you had done this, you obvioulsly would have seen that
the cars ahead of you were no accelerating. You then could have gotton
off the gas until they started, and the whole situation could have been
avoided.

Bottom line, you made a bonehead move and traficcop had every right to
be upset with you. He just got a little carried away.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick

by **mario_andre..** » Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>What I'm trying to say is try to keep a cool head after a wreck!
>99.9% of the time it was an accident (weather by lack of skill or
>judgement) and the guy is plenty sorry. Some of us can't type 80 wpm and
>it takes a while to say sorry! So let the buttheads know that you know
>they are buttheads, but use a little class!!

I completely agree. I have been a tester on the Hawaii network since
Fall of 1995 and have spent over $1800 in long distance calls to the
service since that time. Pretty scary. However, I have pretty much
given up on Hawaii, but not because of the "idiots" always running at
Talladega and crahing on the first lap. Mainly because there seemed to
be no room for the average competent player. I have put thousands of
dollars(hardware upgrades, software, steering controllers,etc.) and
thousands of hours into all Papyrus sims. Unfortunately, I have
remained an average racer. On Hawaii I always made sure I did not get
into races over my head(skill level wise), and to take it easy on
first lap, entering/exiting pits, letting leaders pass if being
lapped, etc. But occasionally I might make an unintentional error, or
become involved in someone elses unintentional error. Many times
before I fininshed typing my apology(after clearing my wreck off the
track, of couse!), I had been flamed unmercifully.
I can take the criticism, that's fine. What I got sick of was, "I'm
going to send you my phone bill", or "I' m going to tell everyone not
to race you".
Papyrus has a prety fair ranking system, so let them sort out the
idiots that intentionally try to cause accidents.

by **Ed Benso** » Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> > I want to take the time to say a few things about the flamin on Hawaii.
> > Last night I joined a race at the Rock 5% D/ /P there was 8 or 9 of us.
> > I qualified 4th, well on the start I jumped the green a bit (All the races
> > I ran with a pace before it seemed everyone was doing it) well the guy
> > behind me followed, but the front row was being REAL honest with the start
> > I came right up and spilt them without wreckin anyone (LUCK BIG TIME!).
> > however it stirred the whole field up and I got into a car (traficcop)
> > just seconds latter, took out the top 3 or 4 cars.

> From this post, it sounds like traficcop just over-reacted. He is
> totally justified in his anger, but just not to the extreme he seemed to
> be taking it to.

> The main problem I see here is what you admited you did wrong: jumping
> the green. There is ABSOLUTELY NO excuse whatsoever to jump the green
> flag. I don't care how the pace laps were handled in all the other
> races you've run in; it doesn't matter. It's up to the leader (and only
> the leader) of each individual race to determine the speed and timing of
> the start. If he descides to go 10 mph and not start accelerating until
> right at the S/F line, for the sake of everyone's saftey just stay in
> line and wait for him. If you just follow the leader, it will save
> everyone alot of grief.

> On starts (and restarts after yellows) PLEASE keep the F2 window toggled
> so that you can see the interval between you and the cars infront and
> behind you. If you had done this, you obvioulsly would have seen that
> the cars ahead of you were no accelerating. You then could have gotton
> off the gas until they started, and the whole situation could have been
> avoided.

> Bottom line, you made a bonehead move and traficcop had every right to
> be upset with you. He just got a little carried away.

> --

> Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
> Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
> Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick

Now wait a minute, let's clarify things a little. If the green flags
waving, I'm racing. If the lead car wants to stay at 10 mph, he's not
gonna be the lead caar very long.
On a related point, of I'm the lead car, I start accelerating as soon as
the pace car starts moving over. (I leave a little room so I can do
this.) I hope that this is not considered bad form, as again, I consider
it racing. Bear in mind that not wrecking is always my top priority
(except maybe for the last lap.)
I would like to hear others opinions, especially from experienced
racers.

Ed Benson

by **Eric T. Busc** » Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> Now wait a minute, let's clarify things a little. If the green flags
> waving, I'm racing. If the lead car wants to stay at 10 mph, he's not
> gonna be the lead car very long.
> On a related point, of I'm the lead car, I start accelerating as soon as
> the pace car starts moving over. (I leave a little room so I can do
> this.) I hope that this is not considered bad form, as again, I consider
> it racing. Bear in mind that not wrecking is always my top priority
> (except maybe for the last lap.)
> I would like to hear others opinions, especially from experienced
> racers.

That situation was an exageration to make a point. The lead car should
ultimately determine when and at what speed the field starts, it's not
when the green flag waves. Ideally these two events should coincide,
but sometimes they do not. Your best bet for racing is to keep the f2
window so that you can see when the lead car goes so you can follow
suit. Use the green flag as a guide, but don't depend on it.

Again, if you're the lead car it's up to you to start the field racing.
If you choose to jump the start I personally don't have any problem with
it. It is up to the rest of the field to notice this and follow you.

This may not be the correct way, but it is the way I've seen it done
most often on Hawaii and in real races.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick

by **geoWo** » Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>> The main problem I see here is what you admited you did wrong: jumping
>> the green. There is ABSOLUTELY NO excuse whatsoever to jump the green
>> flag. I don't care how the pace laps were handled in all the other
>> races you've run in; it doesn't matter. It's up to the leader (and only
>> the leader) of each individual race to determine the speed and timing of
>> the start. If he descides to go 10 mph and not start accelerating until
>> right at the S/F line, for the sake of everyone's saftey just stay in
>> line and wait for him. If you just follow the leader, it will save
>> everyone alot of grief.

>> On starts (and restarts after yellows) PLEASE keep the F2 window toggled
>> so that you can see the interval between you and the cars infront and
>> behind you. If you had done this, you obvioulsly would have seen that
>> the cars ahead of you were no accelerating. You then could have gotton
>> off the gas until they started, and the whole situation could have been
>> avoided.

>> --

>> Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
>> Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
>> Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick

>Now wait a minute, let's clarify things a little. If the green flags
>waving, I'm racing. If the lead car wants to stay at 10 mph, he's not
>gonna be the lead caar very long.
>On a related point, of I'm the lead car, I start accelerating as soon as
>the pace car starts moving over. (I leave a little room so I can do
>this.) I hope that this is not considered bad form, as again, I consider
>it racing. Bear in mind that not wrecking is always my top priority
>(except maybe for the last lap.)
>I would like to hear others opinions, especially from experienced
>racers.

>Ed Benson

What Papy needs to do is have the same rule as NASCAR... No passing on
restarts until the start finish line!

by **Mike Carrother** » Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:00:00

racing.

This is not right. On the start of a race, the flagman starts the race.
When the green drops, you go, or rick being run over. The leader only
starts on a re-start.

Mike

by **Mike Carrother** » Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>> > I want to take the time to say a few things about the flamin on
Hawaii.
>> > Last night I joined a race at the Rock 5% D/ /P there was 8 or 9
of us.
>> > I qualified 4th, well on the start I jumped the green a bit (All
the races
>> > I ran with a pace before it seemed everyone was doing it) well the
guy
>> > behind me followed, but the front row was being REAL honest with
the start
>> > I came right up and spilt them without wreckin anyone (LUCK BIG
TIME!).
>> > however it stirred the whole field up and I got into a car
(traficcop)
>> > just seconds latter, took out the top 3 or 4 cars.

>> From this post, it sounds like traficcop just over-reacted. He is
>> totally justified in his anger, but just not to the extreme he
seemed to
>> be taking it to.

>> The main problem I see here is what you admited you did wrong:
jumping
>> the green. There is ABSOLUTELY NO excuse whatsoever to jump the
green
>> flag. I don't care how the pace laps were handled in all the other
>> races you've run in; it doesn't matter. It's up to the leader (and
only
>> the leader) of each individual race to determine the speed and
timing of
>> the start. If he descides to go 10 mph and not start accelerating
until
>> right at the S/F line, for the sake of everyone's saftey just stay
in
>> line and wait for him. If you just follow the leader, it will save
>> everyone alot of grief.

>> On starts (and restarts after yellows) PLEASE keep the F2 window
toggled
>> so that you can see the interval between you and the cars infront
and
>> behind you. If you had done this, you obvioulsly would have seen
that
>> the cars ahead of you were no accelerating. You then could have
gotton
>> off the gas until they started, and the whole situation could have
been
>> avoided.

>> Bottom line, you made a bonehead move and traficcop had every right
to
>> be upset with you. He just got a little carried away.

>> --

>> Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
>> Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
>> Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick

>Now wait a minute, let's clarify things a little. If the green flags
>waving, I'm racing. If the lead car wants to stay at 10 mph, he's not
>gonna be the lead caar very long.
>On a related point, of I'm the lead car, I start accelerating as soon
as
>the pace car starts moving over. (I leave a little room so I can do
>this.) I hope that this is not considered bad form, as again, I
consider
>it racing. Bear in mind that not wrecking is always my top priority
>(except maybe for the last lap.)
>I would like to hear others opinions, especially from experienced
>racers.

>Ed Benson

I aggree. At the start of the race, the flagman starts the race. If the
green drops, the race is on. Only on re-starts does the leader start
the race. This is the way it is in most oval racing series. If the
leader sits after the green, he is meat.

Mike

by **Eric T. Busc** » Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> I aggree. At the start of the race, the flagman starts the race. If the
> green drops, the race is on. Only on re-starts does the leader start
> the race. This is the way it is in most oval racing series. If the
> leader sits after the green, he is meat.

I agree too, but the problem is that then people will start to pass
coming out of turn 3, before the S/F line. By waiting on the leader to
lead the pack to the S/F line, you end up with a much more realisic and
safe start.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick

by **Eric T. Busc** » Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> This is not right. On the start of a race, the flagman starts the race.
> When the green drops, you go, or rick being run over. The leader only
> starts on a re-start.

Yes he does, but there is no passing before the S/F line. The only way
to make sure this is the case is to follow the leader's speed and
timing. Otherwise people will start setting up in turn 3-4 to make a
pass on the front straight.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick

by **Regis Philbi** » Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:00:00

My question is: What good does chatting do in Hawaii? Why doesn't
Papyrus just eliminate the chat feature from races in Hawaii? It might
make people a bit less timid.

Pants Pants Pants Pants Pants Pants Pants Pants Pants Pants Pants Pants

by **David Spark** » Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>My question is: What good does chatting do in Hawaii? Why doesn't
>Papyrus just eliminate the chat feature from races in Hawaii? It might
>make people a bit less timid.

There are good reasons to keep the in-race chat. Since you can't wave your
hands in the car, use it to warn other drivers that you're pitting or to
set up passing situations when the lead cars overtake slower cars. In
series races, the series director can communicate last minute instructions
to drivers. Like any communication channel, chat is subject to abuse, but
eliminating chat isn't going to eliminate the anti-social behavior of
certain drivers.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

by **Tim Wortm** » Sat, 13 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>Now wait a minute, let's clarify things a little. If the green flags
>waving, I'm racing. If the lead car wants to stay at 10 mph, he's not
>gonna be the lead caar very long.
>On a related point, of I'm the lead car, I start accelerating as soon as
>the pace car starts moving over. (I leave a little room so I can do
>this.) I hope that this is not considered bad form, as again, I consider
>it racing. Bear in mind that not wrecking is always my top priority
>(except maybe for the last lap.)
>I would like to hear others opinions, especially from experienced
>racers.
>Ed Benson

Ed......Do you ever see the guys in Winston Cup "hanging back a little
and going with the pace car"? A reminder....in Winston (and I have to
assume this is also the rule that the NRL will use), passing another
driver to the left side prior to the s/f line on any start or restart
is grounds for a black flag.

If everyone goes by the same theory, there will be alot less ***like
you described. Bottom line....go when the leader goes.

_______________________________________
Tim Wortman

NASS '96 Series Director

Visit the NASS '96 home page
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
_______________________________________

by **Brian Motisk** » Sat, 13 Jul 1996 04:00:00

I also agree currently I am ranked a 10. only been on there since may so
thats not bad. I am in a league and race real clean. Im the one that
will give more than enogh room while being passed but get no room while
im passing. Ive raced many races there and it seems a couple of drivers
were complainig about the way I drive. comments like how did you become
a 10. well i earned it. just because i slip every now and then does not
mean i suck. i cant help it if coming out of 2 on last lap at dega i try
to pass on inside but people dont give me room they keep pushing
expecting me to drive my line in the grass. down the bstreach. then we
both wreck in t3 well i get the blame. im sorry but in all the races ive
ever seen on tv. when a guy gets under you you dont push him into grass
. I mean when i get the white flag its time to race. i might hang it out
a little but im not going to wreck you onpurpose. id rather be 2nd then
last. but im also not going to let you win if i think i can pass you
then i will try. oh well let the system do the work....

by **Michael Kirt** » Sat, 13 Jul 1996 04:00:00

><snipped>
> i cant help it if coming out of 2 on last lap at dega i try
>to pass on inside but people dont give me room they keep pushing
>expecting me to drive my line in the grass. down the bstreach. then we
>both wreck in t3 well i get the blame. im sorry but in all the races ive
>ever seen on tv. when a guy gets under you you dont push him into grass
>. I mean when i get the white flag its time to race. i might hang it out
>a little but im not going to wreck you onpurpose. id rather be 2nd then
>last. but im also not going to let you win if i think i can pass you
>then i will try. oh well let the system do the work....

I assume you are talking about passing to the left of the white line
on the backstretch. The possible problem with this is, can you hold
the line thru T3 without coming up on the car to your outside? From
what I have witnessed, probably not. I had this happen last night.
Last lap and he gets under me on the backstretch (he is on the apron
on the left side of the white line). I am just right of the white
line. We enter T3 side by side. I stay just above the white line. He
can't keep his car down in T3 because of the poor entry angle and
comes up and tags me. Who's wrong? Who should back off? IMO, I have
the preferred line. I gave him the entire apron to work with and feel
that it is his responsibility to hold HIS line. After all, he chose
that line not I. What do ya'll think?

--------------
Michael Kirton

rec.autos.simulators

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop

Flamin on Hawaii - Give a guy the chance to say oopps or sorry - attn traficcop