rec.autos.simulators

>> Now wait a minute, let's clarify things a little. If the green flags
>> waving, I'm racing. If the lead car wants to stay at 10 mph, he's not
>> gonna be the lead car very long.
>> On a related point, of I'm the lead car, I start accelerating as soon as
>> the pace car starts moving over. (I leave a little room so I can do
>> this.) I hope that this is not considered bad form, as again, I consider
>> it racing. Bear in mind that not wrecking is always my top priority
>> (except maybe for the last lap.)
>> I would like to hear others opinions, especially from experienced
>> racers.

>That situation was an exageration to make a point.  The lead car should
>ultimately determine when and at what speed the field starts, it's not
>when the green flag waves.  Ideally these two events should coincide,
>but sometimes they do not.  Your best bet for racing is to keep the f2
>window so that you can see when the lead car goes so you can follow
>suit.  Use the green flag as a guide, but don't depend on it.

>Again, if you're the lead car it's up to you to start the field racing.
>If you choose to jump the start I personally don't have any problem with
>it.  It is up to the rest of the field to notice this and follow you.

>This may not be the correct way, but it is the way I've seen it done
>most often on Hawaii and in real races.

>--

>Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences

>Nascar Setups Page: http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ebusch/
>Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick

>><snipped>
>> i cant help it if coming out of 2 on last lap at dega i try
>>to  pass on inside but people dont give me room they keep pushing
>>expecting me to drive my line in the grass. down the bstreach.  then
we
>>both wreck in t3 well i get the blame.  im sorry but in all the races
ive
>>ever seen on tv.  when a guy gets under you you dont push him into
grass
>>. I mean when i get the white flag its time to race.  i might hang it
out
>>a little but im not going to wreck you onpurpose.  id rather be 2nd
then
>>last.  but im also not going to let you win if i think i can pass you
>>then i will try.  oh well let the system do the work....

>I assume you are talking about passing to the left of the white line
>on the backstretch. The possible problem with this is, can you hold
>the line thru T3 without coming up on the car to your outside? From
>what I have witnessed, probably not. I had this happen last night.
>Last lap and he gets under me on the backstretch (he is on the apron
>on the left side of the white line). I am just right of the white
>line. We enter T3 side by side. I stay just above the white line. He
>can't keep his car down in T3 because of the poor entry angle and
>comes up and tags me. Who's wrong? Who should back off? IMO, I have
>the preferred line. I gave him the entire apron to work with and feel
>that it is his responsibility to hold HIS line. After all, he chose
>that line not I. What do ya'll think?

>--------------
>Michael Kirton

>>--------------
>>Michael Kirton

>I think you should have given him room to run, instead of running him
>below the line.
>Mike

> >But I didnt run him below the line. He moved to the left of the white
> >line on the backstretch and drafted up beside me on my inside. I was
> >just to the right of the white line and held that line all the way
> >down the backstretch. When we got to T3  I was slightly ahead of him.
> >I gave him the entire apron, which is where he chose to drive, and he
> >couldnt hold his car down and came up and tagged me. This is no big
> >deal. I just wanted to see how other folks would handle this
> >situation.

> I agree with you. You were driving the prefered line versus his "passing
> attempt" line on the apron. If he and/or his setup was unable to hold his
> line than he should yield. However, that's my opinion. When people go
> into a turn three wide or even side by side "someone's gotta give."
> There's no clear cut rule who "someone" is. And the relatively low
> consequence of crashing in simulated racing only contributes to the
> difficulty in picking who that "someone" is.

> Oh... the philosophy of racin'

> Craig

>><snipped>
>> i cant help it if coming out of 2 on last lap at dega i try
>>to pass on inside but people dont give me room they keep pushing
>>expecting me to drive my line in the grass. down the bstreach. then
>>we both wreck in t3 well i get the blame. im sorry but in all the
>>races ive ever seen on tv.  when a guy gets under you you dont push
>>him into grass I mean when i get the white flag its time to race. i
>>might hang it out a little but im not going to wreck you onpurpose.
>>rather be 2nd then last.  but im also not going to let you win if i
>>think i can pass you then i will try.  oh well let the system do the
>>work....

> I assume you are talking about passing to the left of the white line
> on the backstretch. The possible problem with this is, can you hold
> the line thru T3 without coming up on the car to your outside? From
> what I have witnessed, probably not. I had this happen last night.
> Last lap and he gets under me on the backstretch (he is on the apron
> on the left side of the white line). I am just right of the white
> line. We enter T3 side by side. I stay just above the white line. He
> can't keep his car down in T3 because of the poor entry angle and
> comes up and tags me. Who's wrong? Who should back off? IMO, I have
> the preferred line. I gave him the entire apron to work with and feel
> that it is his responsibility to hold HIS line. After all, he chose
> that line not I. What do ya'll think?

>>I think you should have given him room to run, instead of running him
>>below the line.

>>Mike

>But I didnt run him below the line. He moved to the left of the white
>line on the backstretch and drafted up beside me on my inside. I was
>just to the right of the white line and held that line all the way
>down the backstretch. When we got to T3  I was slightly ahead of him.
>I gave him the entire apron, which is where he chose to drive, and he
>couldnt hold his car down and came up and tagged me. This is no big
>deal. I just wanted to see how other folks would handle this
>situation.

>--------------
>Michael Kirton

>>Mike

>But I didnt run him below the line. He moved to the left of the white
>line on the backstretch and drafted up beside me on my inside. I was
>just to the right of the white line and held that line all the way
>down the backstretch. When we got to T3  I was slightly ahead of him.
>I gave him the entire apron, which is where he chose to drive, and he
>couldnt hold his car down and came up and tagged me. This is no big
>deal. I just wanted to see how other folks would handle this
>situation.

>--------------
>Michael Kirton

>    My approach would have been to accept that he was along side and
>move up to a position that would have been safer for both of us. Then
>assess what the situation is as we approach the next turn, before the
>tri-oval, where he will probably go ahead of me. I would maybe lose the
>spot but still be alive for another lap.

> > >But I didnt run him below the line. He moved to the left of the white
> > >line on the backstretch and drafted up beside me on my inside. I was
> > >just to the right of the white line and held that line all the way
> > >down the backstretch. When we got to T3  I was slightly ahead of him.
> > >I gave him the entire apron, which is where he chose to drive, and he
> > >couldnt hold his car down and came up and tagged me. This is no big
> > >deal. I just wanted to see how other folks would handle this
> > >situation.

> > I agree with you. You were driving the prefered line versus his "passing
> > attempt" line on the apron. If he and/or his setup was unable to hold his
> > line than he should yield. However, that's my opinion. When people go
> > into a turn three wide or even side by side "someone's gotta give."
> > There's no clear cut rule who "someone" is. And the relatively low
> > consequence of crashing in simulated racing only contributes to the
> > difficulty in picking who that "someone" is.

> > Oh... the philosophy of racin'

> > Craig

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Winston, isn't illegal to go below the
> white line?  If so, you should give him no room at all, you held your
> inside line all the way down, you didn't slam the door, if he wants
> around you he has to go high.  Just my opinion, but I like to keep ot as
> close to reality as possible, I even do it in single and multi.

>>>I assume you are talking about passing to the left of the white line
>>>on the backstretch. The possible problem with this is, can you hold
>>>the line thru T3 without coming up on the car to your outside? From
>>>what I have witnessed, probably not. I had this happen last night.
>>>Last lap and he gets under me on the backstretch (he is on the apron
>>>on the left side of the white line). I am just right of the white
>>>line. We enter T3 side by side. I stay just above the white line. He
>>>can't keep his car down in T3 because of the poor entry angle and
>>>comes up and tags me. Who's wrong? Who should back off? IMO, I have
>>>the preferred line. I gave him the entire apron to work with and feel
>>>that it is his responsibility to hold HIS line. After all, he chose
>>>that line not I. What do ya'll think?

>>>--------------
>>>Michael Kirton

>>I think you should have given him room to run, instead of running him
>>below the line.

>>Mike

>But I didnt run him below the line. He moved to the left of the white
>line on the backstretch and drafted up beside me on my inside. I was
>just to the right of the white line and held that line all the way
>down the backstretch. When we got to T3  I was slightly ahead of him.
>I gave him the entire apron, which is where he chose to drive, and he
>couldnt hold his car down and came up and tagged me. This is no big
>deal. I just wanted to see how other folks would handle this
>situation.

>--------------
>Michael Kirton

>>>>--------------
>>>>Michael Kirton

>>>I think you should have given him room to run, instead of running
him
>>>below the line.

>>>Mike

>>But I didnt run him below the line. He moved to the left of the white
>>line on the backstretch and drafted up beside me on my inside. I was
>>just to the right of the white line and held that line all the way
>>down the backstretch. When we got to T3  I was slightly ahead of him.
>>I gave him the entire apron, which is where he chose to drive, and he
>>couldnt hold his car down and came up and tagged me. This is no big
>>deal. I just wanted to see how other folks would handle this
>>situation.

>>--------------
>>Michael Kirton

>Mike,

>I think you were right on this one.  You had your preferred line,
therefore YOU
>determine whether you want to give it up or not.  You may choose (to
>be nice or
>make it a more finish) to move up the groove, but it isn't mandatory
that you do
>so.  You're ahead of the other guy, you're in your preferred line -
therefore,
>it's up to the guy behind you to go around you and be able to hold his
line
>doing so.  If he decides pass a lead car (and driving on the apron is
an illegal
>move which would result in a black flag in NASCAR!), he is obligated
to hold his
>line on the pass.

>I see a ton of these types of messages here from people who start an
aggressive
>pass, in a bad line and then expect everyone to move over for them
because THEY
>can't hold their line.  It doesn't work that way and in real life if a
passer
>took out a passee doing a stupid move like that which resulted in
taking out the
>passee, he'd have his ass kicked all over the garage, after the race.
That
>ain't racin', it's rookie behavior at the least, stupidity at the
most.

>--- Frank ---