rec.autos.simulators

>A sim is a sim; the vehicle is irrelevant. Just because HP2 is a BAD sim doesn't
>mean it's not a sim at all. Duh.

>>It may be a sim but it's not a car sim. For a car sim, you would expect the car
>> to handle like one. It handles more like a boat or a snowmobile....

>>>Just because NFSHP2 isn't as GOOD a sim as NFS5 doesn't mean it's still not a
>>>sim. The NFS series IS a sim (among other things: arcade/action driving sim).

>> >> > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That counts as a
>>>>> simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented than most
>>sims,
>>>>> it's still a driving simulation series, despite what some "die-hard sim
>>fans"
>> >> > may say.

>> >> I am NOT a die-hard sim fan but I think it is fair to say that in a
>> >> lot of ways Hot Pursuit 2...at least for the PC... is COMPLETE CRAP!

>> >> For one, if it is a sim, then it is a sim of a boat on asphalt. The
>> >> steering lags (it also lacks...of course), is far from precise and the
>> >> handling of the cars is a real joke!

>> >> The graphics are not as much of an improvement as one would expect
>> >> after over two years since NFS:PU was released.

>> >> Force feedback is also pretty crap. There is virtually no road grip.
>> >> Even when set to 100% the wheel is just floating left and right...

>> >> The main issue I have with it is this. NFS5 was a good game. Why
>> >> couldn't they just take that and make modifications to it. I mean, WHY
>> >> could they not release something that was better? Should NFS6 not be
>> >> an improvement over NFS5?

>> >> As far as I am concerned....the developers of the game should have
>> >> spent their time fishing...or sleeping...or whatever...Just don't code
>> >> any more games....PLEASE!

>> >> Final verdict on the game: Certainly not worth the time it takes to
>> >> pick it up from the shop - even if it was free. Back to NFS5...

> > > > > > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That counts
> as a
> > > > > > simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented than
> > > > > > most sims, it's still a driving simulation series, despite what
> some
> > > > > > "die-hard sim fans" may say.

> > > > >   Oh not YOU again, Mr. Literal,  Mr. Clinton, that depends on what
> the
> > > > > meaning of "is" is...

> > > > >   Ok, so the cars don't fly, or go straight through solid objects.
> There
> > > > > are some physics at work.  But when people say a "sim" they mean
> it's
> > > > > pretty close to Real Life(tm).  I'd like to see you drive half the
> speed of
> > > > > NFS6 and stay on the road.  I'd like to see you collide with a tree
> at 150
> > > > > MPH and drive away.  Please, won't you try it??

> > > > >   The presence of some physics doesn't mean a game is a sim.  Is
> Super
> > > > > Mario Brothers a sim because it has gravity?

> > > > Yes, it is--relatively. Learn to think relatively and you'll
> understand
> > > how just about EVERY game is a sim and how the NFS series is a driving
> sim.
> > > Attempt to think, nitwit.

> > > While your'e at it; could you please elaborate the true meaning of
> "arcade"
> > > as well?

> > I think "arcade" is even more obtuse and vague but to me it basically
> applies to fairly simple (read "mindless") games with LOTS of action and
> very little thought needed to play (which is why "arcade" games make up most
> console games since they're mainly directed towards kids). "Arcade" mostly
> includes elements from platform, sim, and puzzle genres but, of course,
> aren't limited to them only.

> Is NFS6 an arcade title by your definition?

> >A sim is a sim; the vehicle is irrelevant. Just because HP2 is a BAD sim doesn't
> >mean it's not a sim at all. Duh.

> >>It may be a sim but it's not a car sim. For a car sim, you would expect the car
> >> to handle like one. It handles more like a boat or a snowmobile....

> >>>Just because NFSHP2 isn't as GOOD a sim as NFS5 doesn't mean it's still not a
> >>>sim. The NFS series IS a sim (among other things: arcade/action driving sim).

> >> >> > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That counts as a
> >>>>> simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented than most
> >>sims,
> >>>>> it's still a driving simulation series, despite what some "die-hard sim
> >>fans"
> >> >> > may say.

> >> >> I am NOT a die-hard sim fan but I think it is fair to say that in a
> >> >> lot of ways Hot Pursuit 2...at least for the PC... is COMPLETE CRAP!

> >> >> For one, if it is a sim, then it is a sim of a boat on asphalt. The
> >> >> steering lags (it also lacks...of course), is far from precise and the
> >> >> handling of the cars is a real joke!

> >> >> The graphics are not as much of an improvement as one would expect
> >> >> after over two years since NFS:PU was released.

> >> >> Force feedback is also pretty crap. There is virtually no road grip.
> >> >> Even when set to 100% the wheel is just floating left and right...

> >> >> The main issue I have with it is this. NFS5 was a good game. Why
> >> >> couldn't they just take that and make modifications to it. I mean, WHY
> >> >> could they not release something that was better? Should NFS6 not be
> >> >> an improvement over NFS5?

> >> >> As far as I am concerned....the developers of the game should have
> >> >> spent their time fishing...or sleeping...or whatever...Just don't code
> >> >> any more games....PLEASE!

> >> >> Final verdict on the game: Certainly not worth the time it takes to
> >> >> pick it up from the shop - even if it was free. Back to NFS5...

>   So bad sim = arcade game?

>  So bad sim = arcade game?

>> Duh, in that case every game is a sim.

>Relatively, yes.

>>One would think that if you have a car game, in order to consider it a sim it
>>would have to simulate a car....

>Duh--which the NFS series does; hence why it's a driving sim series.

>   I don't think Need for Speed (with the possible exception of Porsche
> Unleashed) is a sim.  If the new Hot Pursuit 2 has the same physics
> and feel as Need for Speed 4, then I definitely don't condiser it a
> sim.

>  Some reasons I don't think this game is a sim, and is in fact an
> arcade racer:

> 1) The feel is all wrong.  The cars don't seem like they are driving
> so much as flying.  The inertia and friction seem totally bogus.

> 2) Where's a spinout?  I haven't seen a car spinout yet in NFSIV.

> 3) The courses.  The tracks are very narrow and twisty. They are all
> suppossed to be street courses and not road courses, but somehow you
> combine them  with the physics and it further erodes the sense you are
> really driving.

> 4) AI cars don't look like they are driving so much as floating around
> the track.

>   Now  let's compare it to games that are sims (GPL, Sports Car GT,
> Nascar Heat, etc, etc.), and some of their characteristics:

> 1) The physics are solid- the physics aren't just a bunch of simple
> canned routines.  Step on the gas, the car shifts backwards a bit,
> step on the brake, the car leans frontward.

> 2) Cars do spinout.  There's variable levels of grip the tires
> encounter. Some sims even go so far as to model lack of traction
> control or anti-lock brakes, so you can even spin out by pushing down
> on the gas too fast, or lock the wheels by slamming on the brakes.

> 3) You can use real racing strategies on the courses.  You learn the
> courses and follow the racing line, apply brakes at the appropriate
> time.  IT's not just a matter of mashing a button and jerking left or
> right like Pole Position.

>   Frankly, I find the arcade racers like NFSIV harder to drive than
> sim racers. Why?  Because the physics in an arcade racer will vary so
> much from game to game,  whereas a sim racer will have more consistent
> physics.  Once you get to grips with the real physical model, it's
> easier to go from game to game and bring the same skills.  To top this
> off, the controls in the arcade racers are usually not optimized for a
> wheel- you can't adjust the degree of linearity of the wheel, or the
> steering ratios, and the courses are usually setup so you will drive
> faster with a gamepad anyways.  So it comes down to really twitchy
> driving.

>   No, Eep.  Learn to just THINK.  *** that relative shit.  NFS just
> doesn't have anything more than simple, arcade physics.

> > NFS5 has the best physics of all the NFS games

> Wow, Eep clearly doesn't know anything about racing simulations.

> And you find this surprising because......?