rec.autos.simulators

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

Jlc

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Jlc » Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:17:33


This is absolutely the most ridicules coming from you. LOL!! Oh man your
something! ***ing about this guys newsreader takes you to an all new high
in the stupid comments category of dumbassdom. You are the #1 Usenet message
abuser (maybe not but this will give him a ***) and your flaming this
poor soul for nothing compared to what you do a dozen times a day a or more.
With your no word wrap, and constant topic changing. No to mention your
flame bait posts every day.
I keep telling myself  not to step into your little piles of NG ***you
leave laying around, but damned if I just can't help it.
Jlc.

Andy

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Andy » Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:05:14

So, mario carting is a sim?
Oh, and pod racer?


> NFS is a "sim" in the sense that it tries to "sim"ulate the experience of
> driving a car. All racing games are sims. Some are more realistic than
> others. They just differ in their accuracy.

> And yes,Super Mario Brothers IS a sim. Just not a very accurate or
realistic
> one.  ;-)





> > > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That counts as a
> > > simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented than
> > > most sims, it's still a driving simulation series, despite what some
> > > "die-hard sim fans" may say.

> >   Oh not YOU again, Mr. Literal,  Mr. Clinton, that depends on what the
> > meaning of "is" is...

> >   Ok, so the cars don't fly, or go straight through solid objects.
There
> > are some physics at work.  But when people say a "sim" they mean it's
> > pretty close to Real Life(tm).  I'd like to see you drive half the speed
> of
> > NFS6 and stay on the road.  I'd like to see you collide with a tree at
150
> > MPH and drive away.  Please, won't you try it??

> >   The presence of some physics doesn't mean a game is a sim.  Is Super
> > Mario Brothers a sim because it has gravity?

> > -Mr. Plow

S

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by S » Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:59:27


> Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That counts as a
> simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented than most sims,
> it's still a driving simulation series, despite what some "die-hard sim fans"
> may say.

I am NOT a die-hard sim fan but I think it is fair to say that in a
lot of ways Hot Pursuit 2...at least for the PC... is COMPLETE CRAP!

For one, if it is a sim, then it is a sim of a boat on asphalt. The
steering lags (it also lacks...of course), is far from precise and the
handling of the cars is a real joke!

The graphics are not as much of an improvement as one would expect
after over two years since NFS:PU was released.

Force feedback is also pretty crap. There is virtually no road grip.
Even when set to 100% the wheel is just floating left and right...

The main issue I have with it is this. NFS5 was a good game. Why
couldn't they just take that and make modifications to it. I mean, WHY
could they not release something that was better? Should NFS6 not be
an improvement over NFS5?

As far as I am concerned....the developers of the game should have
spent their time fishing...or sleeping...or whatever...Just don't code
any more games....PLEASE!

Final verdict on the game: Certainly not worth the time it takes to
pick it up from the shop - even if it was free. Back to NFS5...

SH

Eep2

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Eep2 » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:35:21

Yes, relatively--not SOLEY, however.

> So, mario carting is a sim?
> Oh, and pod racer?



> > NFS is a "sim" in the sense that it tries to "sim"ulate the experience of
> > driving a car. All racing games are sims. Some are more realistic than
> > others. They just differ in their accuracy.

> > And yes,Super Mario Brothers IS a sim. Just not a very accurate or realistic
> > one.  ;-)





> > > > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That counts as a
> > > > simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented than
> > > > most sims, it's still a driving simulation series, despite what some
> > > > "die-hard sim fans" may say.

> > >   Oh not YOU again, Mr. Literal,  Mr. Clinton, that depends on what the
> > > meaning of "is" is...

> > >   Ok, so the cars don't fly, or go straight through solid objects. There
> > > are some physics at work.  But when people say a "sim" they mean it's
> > > pretty close to Real Life(tm).  I'd like to see you drive half the speed of
> > > NFS6 and stay on the road.  I'd like to see you collide with a tree at 150
> > > MPH and drive away.  Please, won't you try it??

> > >   The presence of some physics doesn't mean a game is a sim.  Is Super
> > > Mario Brothers a sim because it has gravity?

Eep2

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Eep2 » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:36:48

Just because NFSHP2 isn't as GOOD a sim as NFS5 doesn't mean it's still not a sim. The NFS series IS a sim (among other things: arcade/action driving sim).


> > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That counts as a
> > simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented than most sims,
> > it's still a driving simulation series, despite what some "die-hard sim fans"
> > may say.

> I am NOT a die-hard sim fan but I think it is fair to say that in a
> lot of ways Hot Pursuit 2...at least for the PC... is COMPLETE CRAP!

> For one, if it is a sim, then it is a sim of a boat on asphalt. The
> steering lags (it also lacks...of course), is far from precise and the
> handling of the cars is a real joke!

> The graphics are not as much of an improvement as one would expect
> after over two years since NFS:PU was released.

> Force feedback is also pretty crap. There is virtually no road grip.
> Even when set to 100% the wheel is just floating left and right...

> The main issue I have with it is this. NFS5 was a good game. Why
> couldn't they just take that and make modifications to it. I mean, WHY
> could they not release something that was better? Should NFS6 not be
> an improvement over NFS5?

> As far as I am concerned....the developers of the game should have
> spent their time fishing...or sleeping...or whatever...Just don't code
> any more games....PLEASE!

> Final verdict on the game: Certainly not worth the time it takes to
> pick it up from the shop - even if it was free. Back to NFS5...

Carl Ribbegaard

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Carl Ribbegaard » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 05:26:48











> > > > > > > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That
counts
> > as a
> > > > > > > simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented
than
> > > > > > > most sims, it's still a driving simulation series, despite
what
> > some
> > > > > > > "die-hard sim fans" may say.

> > > > > >   Oh not YOU again, Mr. Literal,  Mr. Clinton, that depends on
what
> > the
> > > > > > meaning of "is" is...

> > > > > >   Ok, so the cars don't fly, or go straight through solid
objects.
> > There
> > > > > > are some physics at work.  But when people say a "sim" they mean
> > it's
> > > > > > pretty close to Real Life(tm).  I'd like to see you drive half
the
> > speed of
> > > > > > NFS6 and stay on the road.  I'd like to see you collide with a
tree
> > at 150
> > > > > > MPH and drive away.  Please, won't you try it??

> > > > > >   The presence of some physics doesn't mean a game is a sim.  Is
> > Super
> > > > > > Mario Brothers a sim because it has gravity?

> > > > > Yes, it is--relatively. Learn to think relatively and you'll
> > understand
> > > > how just about EVERY game is a sim and how the NFS series is a
driving
> > sim.
> > > > Attempt to think, nitwit.

> > > > While your'e at it; could you please elaborate the true meaning of
> > "arcade"
> > > > as well?

> > > I think "arcade" is even more obtuse and vague but to me it basically
> > applies to fairly simple (read "mindless") games with LOTS of action and
> > very little thought needed to play (which is why "arcade" games make up
most
> > console games since they're mainly directed towards kids). "Arcade"
mostly
> > includes elements from platform, sim, and puzzle genres but, of course,
> > aren't limited to them only.

> > Is NFS6 an arcade title by your definition?

> The NFS series can be categorized as an arcade driving sim.

> Get a
> decent
> newsreader
> that doesn't chop

> up quoted text.

1. Let me break the news to you that in RAS, there is a distinction between
Arcade and Sim.
They are the opposite of each other.
Arcade != Sim

This message is a cross-post, and the "other side" you are currently dealing
with is REC.AUTOS.SIMULATORS

2. What is your problem with my NewsReader?
I like it. Isn't that all that count?

Now go back to your "action games".

/Carl

Eep2

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Eep2 » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:20:54













> > > > > > > > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That
> counts
> > > as a
> > > > > > > > simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented
> than
> > > > > > > > most sims, it's still a driving simulation series, despite
> what
> > > some
> > > > > > > > "die-hard sim fans" may say.

> > > > > > >   Oh not YOU again, Mr. Literal,  Mr. Clinton, that depends on
> what
> > > the
> > > > > > > meaning of "is" is...

> > > > > > >   Ok, so the cars don't fly, or go straight through solid
> objects.
> > > There
> > > > > > > are some physics at work.  But when people say a "sim" they mean
> > > it's
> > > > > > > pretty close to Real Life(tm).  I'd like to see you drive half
> the
> > > speed of
> > > > > > > NFS6 and stay on the road.  I'd like to see you collide with a
> tree
> > > at 150
> > > > > > > MPH and drive away.  Please, won't you try it??

> > > > > > >   The presence of some physics doesn't mean a game is a sim.  Is
> > > Super
> > > > > > > Mario Brothers a sim because it has gravity?

> > > > > > Yes, it is--relatively. Learn to think relatively and you'll
> > > understand
> > > > > how just about EVERY game is a sim and how the NFS series is a
> driving
> > > sim.
> > > > > Attempt to think, nitwit.

> > > > > While your'e at it; could you please elaborate the true meaning of
> > > "arcade"
> > > > > as well?

> > > > I think "arcade" is even more obtuse and vague but to me it basically
> > > applies to fairly simple (read "mindless") games with LOTS of action and
> > > very little thought needed to play (which is why "arcade" games make up
> most
> > > console games since they're mainly directed towards kids). "Arcade"
> mostly
> > > includes elements from platform, sim, and puzzle genres but, of course,
> > > aren't limited to them only.

> > > Is NFS6 an arcade title by your definition?

> > The NFS series can be categorized as an arcade driving sim.

> > Get a
> > decent
> > newsreader
> > that doesn't chop

> > up quoted text.

> 1. Let me break the news to you that in RAS, there is a distinction between
> Arcade and Sim.
> They are the opposite of each other.
> Arcade != Sim

Not absolutely; parts of both can be in the same game, amazingly (for you, apparently). Attempt to learn to think relatively, twit.

Der, gee, no shit, Sherlock? Wow, YOU'RE quick...

You like how it ***s up quoted text? Wow, YOU'RE lame...

Action-sims, among other hybrid genres, actually. :)

Goy Larse

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Goy Larse » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:37:33


> This message is a cross-post, and the "other side" you are currently dealing
> with is REC.AUTOS.SIMULATORS

If you guys insist on feeding the trolls, could you at least stop cross
posting please

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

ymenar

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by ymenar » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:44:24


> If you guys insist on feeding the trolls, could you at least stop cross
> posting please

Yeah it's not like Eep actually reads this NG whatsoever.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Goy Larse

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Goy Larse » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:08:37



> > If you guys insist on feeding the trolls, could you at least stop cross
> > posting please

> Yeah it's not like Eep actually reads this NG whatsoever.

I've yet to see him post here other than as a cross post from a couple
of other groups, if that's not a sign.....

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

e

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by e » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:47:26


> Just because NFSHP2 isn't as GOOD a sim as NFS5 doesn't mean it's still not a sim. The NFS series IS a sim (among other things: arcade/action driving sim).

  The words "arcade" and "sim" are mutually exclusive.

  From the sounds of the reviews, NFS6 is a step back from even Need
for Speed IV in terms of simulation.  "Invisible walls"?  I don't
remember any of those in Need for Speed IV.  No in-car view?  To me
that makes it an arcade game.



> > > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That counts as a
> > > simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more action-oriented than most sims,
> > > it's still a driving simulation series, despite what some "die-hard sim fans"
> > > may say.

> > I am NOT a die-hard sim fan but I think it is fair to say that in a
> > lot of ways Hot Pursuit 2...at least for the PC... is COMPLETE CRAP!

> > For one, if it is a sim, then it is a sim of a boat on asphalt. The
> > steering lags (it also lacks...of course), is far from precise and the
> > handling of the cars is a real joke!

> > The graphics are not as much of an improvement as one would expect
> > after over two years since NFS:PU was released.

> > Force feedback is also pretty crap. There is virtually no road grip.
> > Even when set to 100% the wheel is just floating left and right...

> > The main issue I have with it is this. NFS5 was a good game. Why
> > couldn't they just take that and make modifications to it. I mean, WHY
> > could they not release something that was better? Should NFS6 not be
> > an improvement over NFS5?

> > As far as I am concerned....the developers of the game should have
> > spent their time fishing...or sleeping...or whatever...Just don't code
> > any more games....PLEASE!

> > Final verdict on the game: Certainly not worth the time it takes to
> > pick it up from the shop - even if it was free. Back to NFS5...

Jussi 'Igor' Koukk

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Jussi 'Igor' Koukk » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:49:15


something like this:

Please don't use non-standard spelling.
--
- Igor -

Nic

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Nic » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:36:48

I think you are confused about the word 'simulation'. A game like
tetris, where the blocks fall down the screen, is not in any way a
simulation, but it does have some idea of gravity. The blocks fall at
a constant speed, so there is no resultant force acting on the block,
so either there is no gravitational force acting on the block, or the
block has reached terminal velocity, where the air resistance stops it
from accelerating towards the ground. We can discount this second
theory because if you had a block which was straight (ie four squares
in a row), it would slow down when you rotated it from vertical to
horizontal, as there would be more air resistance. So tetris does not
model air resistance. Therefore, it does not 'simulate' gravity. It
does however have a 'notion' of gravity, as the blocks move down the
screen (pixel by pixel), instead of up or diagonally or some other
direction. That is obvious, but I spelled it out for you.

A 'simulation' would actually model the equations of motion which can
be used to calculate the gravitational force on an object. Usually,
-9.81m/(s^2) will suffice as an approximation of gravitational
acceleration at the Earth's surface, and when that value of
acceleration is applied to an object, it falls in a realistic manner.
Technically, a true 'simulation' would calculate the equation G = (m1
* m2)/(r^2) for two masses, at a distance r from each other. This is a
more complete 'simulation' of the effects of gravity, and works in
cases where the first one does not (ie not at the surface of planet
Earth, or where another large mass is concerned). Usually for a game,
this is not necessary, as it approximates to -9.81m/(s^2) anyway.

So, in conclusion, just because something moves downwards through the
air, or moves forwards when you push a button marked 'accelerator',
doesn't mean it is a 'simulation'. Even the best racing 'sims' we play
today, 'simulate' an extremely small amount of what is actually
happening, for example, most racing 'sims' model a car engine as two
torque curves, one at 100% throttle, and one at 0%. They then linearly
interpolate between these two values at a given RPM to get a resultant
torque. Is that simulating an engine? In absolutely no way whatsoever,
but it approximates the output you would get in real life. Does
Pacejka 'simulate' how tyres work? No, it is a mathematical function
which generates a graph, and this graph loosely fits over someone's
experimental data from a real tyre.

You are thinking that the most basic game is a 'simulation' in the
most basic sense, while something like NR2002 is a full 'simulator'.
Well, NR2002 is a 'simulation' in the most basic sense, and we have
yet to see where more computing power and more understanding of the
nature of physics will lead us in decades to come.

Ithankyou.

Carl Ribbegaard

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Carl Ribbegaard » Thu, 31 Oct 2002 02:27:49














> > > > > > > > > Of COURSE it's a sim--it has vehicular physics, yes? That
> > counts
> > > > as a
> > > > > > > > > simulation. Duh. While the NFS series is more
action-oriented
> > than
> > > > > > > > > most sims, it's still a driving simulation series, despite
> > what
> > > > some
> > > > > > > > > "die-hard sim fans" may say.

> > > > > > > >   Oh not YOU again, Mr. Literal,  Mr. Clinton, that depends
on
> > what
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > meaning of "is" is...

> > > > > > > >   Ok, so the cars don't fly, or go straight through solid
> > objects.
> > > > There
> > > > > > > > are some physics at work.  But when people say a "sim" they
mean
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > > pretty close to Real Life(tm).  I'd like to see you drive
half
> > the
> > > > speed of
> > > > > > > > NFS6 and stay on the road.  I'd like to see you collide with
a
> > tree
> > > > at 150
> > > > > > > > MPH and drive away.  Please, won't you try it??

> > > > > > > >   The presence of some physics doesn't mean a game is a sim.
Is
> > > > Super
> > > > > > > > Mario Brothers a sim because it has gravity?

> > > > > > > Yes, it is--relatively. Learn to think relatively and you'll
> > > > understand
> > > > > > how just about EVERY game is a sim and how the NFS series is a
> > driving
> > > > sim.
> > > > > > Attempt to think, nitwit.

> > > > > > While your'e at it; could you please elaborate the true meaning
of
> > > > "arcade"
> > > > > > as well?

> > > > > I think "arcade" is even more obtuse and vague but to me it
basically
> > > > applies to fairly simple (read "mindless") games with LOTS of action
and
> > > > very little thought needed to play (which is why "arcade" games make
up
> > most
> > > > console games since they're mainly directed towards kids). "Arcade"
> > mostly
> > > > includes elements from platform, sim, and puzzle genres but, of
course,
> > > > aren't limited to them only.

> > > > Is NFS6 an arcade title by your definition?

> > > The NFS series can be categorized as an arcade driving sim.

> > > Get a
> > > decent
> > > newsreader
> > > that doesn't chop

> > > up quoted text.

> > 1. Let me break the news to you that in RAS, there is a distinction
between
> > Arcade and Sim.
> > They are the opposite of each other.
> > Arcade != Sim

> Not absolutely; parts of both can be in the same game, amazingly (for you,

apparently). Attempt to learn to think relatively, twit.

In the context of this group, I'm afraid you are wrong.
I didn't get the last part thou?

It didn't appear that you realized you were talking to guys with a different
perspective, so I was quite sure I had to spell it out for you.

Am I lame?
Let me tell you that I simply don't care about your quoted text.
I really don't understand how someone can get so worked up over my
newsbrowser?

So?

Eep2

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2 mini-review

by Eep2 » Thu, 31 Oct 2002 03:40:01



> > Just because NFSHP2 isn't as GOOD a sim as NFS5 doesn't mean it's still not a sim. The NFS series IS a sim (among other things: arcade/action driving sim).

>   The words "arcade" and "sim" are mutually exclusive.

Only to close-/narrow-minded types like you.

Well, you're wrong--sorry. Games CAN have simulation AND arcade elements, you know. Learn to think relatively and perhaps you'll get a clue.


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