rec.autos.simulators

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

Tom Pabs

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Tom Pabs » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:30:43

I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon NASCAR
race today.  These are only my opinions and I express them to garner open
discussion....if you also have an opinion?

In roughly the last two weeks, Jeff Gordon has raised the
bar.......twice.......in my opinion of him as a great race car driver.

I don't think there is any doubt that his performance in the Williams F1 at
Indianapolis showed just how good of race car driver he is.  It even got the
F1 community talking about how good he drove the Williams.

Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest
NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the
next 10 years).  Here's why I say that.

I think he could have passed Robby (Gordon) if he wanted to.  His car was
equal to Robby's....and certainly his driving skills (anywhere, but
certainly on a road course like Infineon where Jeff has set/broken all
performance records in NASCAR) are better.  But.....I think Jeff showed the
intelligence of assessing the situation in almost a brilliant manner.....and
decided not to press the issue and just take the second place trophy (and
valuable NASCAR points) and go to the next race.  After all, Jeff has
nothing to prove at Infineon (having won three times and led more laps than
any other current NASCAR driver....total).  And, Robby had/has a ton to
prove!  Therefore, he was not going to let Jeff get by him.......no
way....if he could avoid it.  That sets the stage for disaster.....usually
for both drivers.  And, I think Jeff figured the extra 10 points wasn't
worth crashing both of them.

There's two ways Jeff could have passed Robby:  (1)  Robby makes a mistake
and opens the door.....Jeff would have stepped right through it (and kept
himself in position to do that).  Or.  (2)  Jeff beats the door down with
his foot.....then steps through it!

The problem is.....and Jeff rightfully figured this out......is that number
(2).....especially when the lead driver has more at stake than the second
place driver......it has got a high degree of possibility that both drivers
crash.....if the second place driver starts "beating on doors!"

What this tells me is that Jeff Gordon is thinking in the race car.....and
he's "thinking championships".....many of them.  And, his history is that
when he goes after something (in racing), he gets it.  That is a "maturity
level" that most race car drivers don't fully reach.....and many never reach
it.  I'm not so sure even Dale Earnhardt (as much as I love that guy to
death) even reached it (he would have though, eventually)?  So, if Jeff
Gordon manages to win a few more NASCAR Championships before he
retires......maybe 4 or 5 more......that would pretty much make him the best
ever.....in my book at least.

Today, he showed me that he's fully capable of doing that.  Last week, he
showed me he can friggin' drive any race car you put him in.....almost
instantly....at world-class levels!

Regards,

Tom

PS:  I am not going to go into the controversy between Jeff and Robby after
the race.....over the "local yellow" pass that Robby made.  Its not part of
my thoughts on Jeff.....its another subject entirely.

Haqsa

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Haqsa » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:50:28

I dunno.  Not to take anything away from Jeff or what you said about him,
but Robby did say during the post race interview that he was pacing himself
on Jeff, i.e. he too could have gone faster if he wanted to but he didn't
want to take a chance on breaking his car and getting another DNF there.
Sounds like a story, but he did look pretty relaxed and in control in the
in-car shots during the race.  That's a pretty mature move too, going just
fast enough to keep the other guy behind you.  So I think that today Robby
was the better driver, although in general I wouldn't argue with what you
said about Jeff.


Kyle Robert

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Kyle Robert » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:12:46


He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up.

Kyle

Tom Pabs

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Tom Pabs » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:45:15

Haqsau....

I surely see your point, too.  I also think Robby has "matured" a lot in
just the last two years.  But I'm not entirely sure he could have prevented
Jeff from reaching his rear bumper....some time, in those last 20 laps.  Who
knows?  We will likely never really know for sure.  Let's just say "both
driver's showed maturity" today!

TP


> I dunno.  Not to take anything away from Jeff or what you said about him,
> but Robby did say during the post race interview that he was pacing
himself
> on Jeff, i.e. he too could have gone faster if he wanted to but he didn't
> want to take a chance on breaking his car and getting another DNF there.
> Sounds like a story, but he did look pretty relaxed and in control in the
> in-car shots during the race.  That's a pretty mature move too, going just
> fast enough to keep the other guy behind you.  So I think that today Robby
> was the better driver, although in general I wouldn't argue with what you
> said about Jeff.



> > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon
NASCAR
> > race today.  These are only my opinions and I express them to garner
open
> > discussion....if you also have an opinion?

> > In roughly the last two weeks, Jeff Gordon has raised the
> > bar.......twice.......in my opinion of him as a great race car driver.

> > I don't think there is any doubt that his performance in the Williams F1
> at
> > Indianapolis showed just how good of race car driver he is.  It even got
> the
> > F1 community talking about how good he drove the Williams.

> > Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest
> > NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the
> > next 10 years).  Here's why I say that.

> > I think he could have passed Robby (Gordon) if he wanted to.  His car
was
> > equal to Robby's....and certainly his driving skills (anywhere, but
> > certainly on a road course like Infineon where Jeff has set/broken all
> > performance records in NASCAR) are better.  But.....I think Jeff showed
> the
> > intelligence of assessing the situation in almost a brilliant
> manner.....and
> > decided not to press the issue and just take the second place trophy
(and
> > valuable NASCAR points) and go to the next race.  After all, Jeff has
> > nothing to prove at Infineon (having won three times and led more laps
> than
> > any other current NASCAR driver....total).  And, Robby had/has a ton to
> > prove!  Therefore, he was not going to let Jeff get by him.......no
> > way....if he could avoid it.  That sets the stage for

disaster.....usually

- Show quoted text -

Tom Pabs

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Tom Pabs » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:48:37

Well.....I guess you'd have to define "greatest NASCAR driver".....but
usually championships and/or wins is the measure.  By those two items he's
got a ways to go to beat Petty (200 wins...and its highly likely that no one
will ever exceed that....at least its pretty hard to imagine it being beat
since that's the equivalent of averaging 10 wins a year...for 20 years
straight.....think about it!) and Earnhardt (7 championships...or is it
8...don't recall exactly).

TP




> > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon
NASCAR
> > race today.
> > Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest
> > NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the
> > next 10 years).

> He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up.

> Kyle

Kyle Robert

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Kyle Robert » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:52:47


> Well.....I guess you'd have to define "greatest NASCAR driver".....but
> usually championships and/or wins is the measure.  By those two items he's
> got a ways to go to beat Petty (200 wins...and its highly likely that no
one
> will ever exceed that....at least its pretty hard to imagine it being beat
> since that's the equivalent of averaging 10 wins a year...for 20 years
> straight.....think about it!) and Earnhardt (7 championships...or is it
> 8...don't recall exactly).

> TP



> > He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up.

> > Kyle

LOL. I said greatest WHINER.

Kyle

Bruce Kennewel

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Bruce Kennewel » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:05:52

That was Jack Brabham's philosophy from the day he first climbed into a
dirt-track speedway car - and one which he kept to for the rest of his
competitive career.
As he put it, you drive to win at the slowest possible speed.

That philosophy was adopted by me in my early school years, when I decided
that, for the rest of my life, I would do just enough work to keep out of
strife! :)

Bruce.


guy behind you.

Ed Solhei

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Ed Solhei » Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:58:39

Tom,

Please take this OT stuff to r.a.s.nascar - WHERE IT BELONGS!



yadda - yadda..

Eldre

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Eldre » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:59:43

We often talk about races and race results here.  Just because it's Tom doesn't
mean he can't comment like the rest of us...<g>

Eldred
--
Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my
homepage)
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Tom Pabs

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Tom Pabs » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:54:20

Ah...LOL...and so you did!

But, I'd still dispute he has that title wrapped up as well.  Rusty Wallace
has it "in the bag" and has form 10 years.  LOL....

TP




> > Well.....I guess you'd have to define "greatest NASCAR driver".....but
> > usually championships and/or wins is the measure.  By those two items
he's
> > got a ways to go to beat Petty (200 wins...and its highly likely that no
> one
> > will ever exceed that....at least its pretty hard to imagine it being
beat
> > since that's the equivalent of averaging 10 wins a year...for 20 years
> > straight.....think about it!) and Earnhardt (7 championships...or is it
> > 8...don't recall exactly).

> > TP



> > > He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up.

> > > Kyle

> LOL. I said greatest WHINER.

> Kyle

Tom Pabs

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Tom Pabs » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:55:17

Ed must have made another silly post about this being inappropriate posting
or something?  LOL....he's so predictable.

TP


Mike Donnelly J

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Mike Donnelly J » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:37:51

He could take on CART's all time champion: Michael Andretti for the
world title...  I don't think anyone in F1 could boast a sufficient
record to challenge.  

Funny thing is, being a Nazareth boy myself, I *like* MA.  I also like
JG.  That said, the whining (which JG has toned down - relatively to
earlier in his career), is the one flaw they share.

I figure if Jeff can get to 100 wins in an era where they don't race
as much as they used to (back before Winston they had 50-60 races a
year - many of them 100 milers/laps...), and pull off 7(+)
championships, then he could lay claim to the greatest.  As usual, it
will be debated, but that's the fun of it...  :)

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:12:46 GMT, "Kyle Roberts"




>> I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon NASCAR
>> race today.
>> Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest
>> NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the
>> next 10 years).

>He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up.

>Kyle

SimRace

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by SimRace » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:38:16


<SNIP>

I think your overall idea is correct, I think Jeff was 'big pitcher' racing
as Larry Mac would call it. He knows this is the best position he's been in
points wise since the divorece thing came about and wasn't about to get
himself booted to the back trying to pass Robbie. And I think Jeff's
interview also brought up a good point when he said Robbie was 'hungry for a
win, as he always is on the road courses' and he knew it could be trouble to
try and get around him.

I ain't really a JG fan, BUT he is a 4 time champ, he is in a GM (which I am
a fan of) and I think he raced smartly yesterday. That second place may go a
long way toward his 5th title if his luck and team hold up solid for the
second half. IIRC, it moved him into 2nd ahead of Junior with a little over
half the season to go yet.

Tom Pabs

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Tom Pabs » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:47:48

My thoughts exactly.......better expressed by you.  Thanks, SR.

Tom




> > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon
NASCAR
> > race today.  These are only my opinions and I express them to garner
open
> > discussion....if you also have an opinion?
> <SNIP>

> I think your overall idea is correct, I think Jeff was 'big pitcher'
racing
> as Larry Mac would call it. He knows this is the best position he's been
in
> points wise since the divorece thing came about and wasn't about to get
> himself booted to the back trying to pass Robbie. And I think Jeff's
> interview also brought up a good point when he said Robbie was 'hungry for
a
> win, as he always is on the road courses' and he knew it could be trouble
to
> try and get around him.

> I ain't really a JG fan, BUT he is a 4 time champ, he is in a GM (which I
am
> a fan of) and I think he raced smartly yesterday. That second place may go
a
> long way toward his 5th title if his luck and team hold up solid for the
> second half. IIRC, it moved him into 2nd ahead of Junior with a little
over
> half the season to go yet.

Sammy Mark

Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

by Sammy Mark » Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:42:33

Same race, same driver, different topic: His whining about R. Gordon passing
under yellow. First of all, it doesn't concern Jeff, as it had no bearing on
his position whatsoever. Second, although there is a gentleman's agreement,
the move was perfectly legal. And third, and what really chaps my hide,
didn't Jeff pass Kenseth (in a move that was incorrectly overruled) earlier
this season while racing back to the flag? So it's o.k. for him, just not
anybody else? Yes, he's talented, but he certainly gives those of us who
don't like him a lot of reasons to not like him. I won't even bring up his
recent shoving people (the #40 twice, and the #22) out of the way. Well,
technically, I guess just did bring that up. :)

Sammy Marks



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