On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:51:58 +0100, "Sjoerd de Roest"
<mys...@multiweb.nl> wrote:
>Hi,
>I've just bought GPL yesterday after reading so much good stuff about it in
>this newsgroup. I already bought it when it was first released but I found
>it too hard back then.
>I love the game now though and I'm looking for an internet page with
>set-ups. My times on monza are now in the range of 1.33 in the lotus. A good
>set-up might help me get under the 1.30.
>Sjoerd
Sjoerd,
I have to second and third what Han has said.
I did quite long post a few weeks ago about this very subject and have
copied it below. The default setups are intended to be pretty fast and
easy enough to drive so you can develop your technique (which takes
many weeks if not months). By switching setups you are not going to
be able to develop your technique as quickly and there are some setups
which you cannot possibly drive without a sound technique.
About half way down the posting you'll see a link to Eldreds site, you
will also find a package there called GPLEGS which discusses technique
and has some sample replays etc. to illustrate the points. I think at
this stage you would get more value from that than trying out various
setups IMHO.
Good Luck and glad to have you in the GPL community
Maxx
>[copy of r.a.s. post from 19.11.00 ]
Here are some sections of another round of discussions between Eldred
and Maxx. This time discussing setups.
[ELDRED]
I usually use Alison's settings, or Roland's [Ehnstrom]
[MAXX]
I've not tried or looked at Rolands, but did use Alisons for quite a
while and certainly these are capable of achieving Papyrus Benchmark
times and perhaps a little more.
I imagine Rolands will be very different from Alisons, as many of the
real hotshoes use very radical diff settings that almost "drive the
car for you". They do demand a different driving style, still using
all the basic stuff in GPLEGS but you have to be very precise with
brake+throttle and use them together to get anywhere, and you really
need to build up to them.
If you want some sample laps, let me know, I'm not talking Huttu here
now Eldred, you will learn more at this stage from the guy who is 1
sec faster, than the guy who is 4 seconds faster.
[ELDRED]
Got a 1:30 at Silverstone, 1:28 at Monza, or 1:06 at Watkins? :)
[MAXX] Discussing the default setups.
There seems to be a lot of negativity about the default
setups, and people, even at +200 Rank asking questions about
where they can get good setups. The default setups are what
was used to set the Papy times in the first place, and are meant
to be easy to get to grips with.
Allisons revised setups are generally just refinements of these and
not that different.
[ELDRED]
I find that hard to believe. I really don't think the default replays
were set with the default setups. Just a hunch...<g>
[MAXX]
I'm not sure, but I feel I can match Papy times, with the default
setups. If I get some time, I may give it a try on a few tracks.
** Maxx sets some time aside to test this theory and replies
[MAXX]
Eldred,
I decided to try and run a couple of tracks with the default setups
and see what times were possible.
I have saved the replays which are discussed here, they are in the
attached file DEFS.ZIP which is 1Mb in size.
Again, as I think this is really useful stuff, I'd like to post it to
r.a.s. but so that anyone reading can get hold of the replays if they
want I would also like you to put them up on your site (as I don't
have one).
---------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: DEFS.ZIP is available from
http://www.umich.edu/~epickett/gpl.htm
Making no excuses but a) this was pretty early on, on a Sunday morning
after a late night before b) I've not run F1s since last weekend (been
running F2s) and c) not driven at 2 of the 3 tracks I used WG & Monza
for at least 2-3 or more weeks.
First up I tried Watkins Glen, took the default setup. I put enough
fuel in for 6-7 laps, and lowered the steering ratio to 12:1 (my
preference, as I turn speed-sensitive steering off).
The first session was pretty untidy, ending on lap 3 with a roll, so I
started again. on the 2nd lap of this 2nd session I did a 1:06.33, 3rd
lap a 1:06.27 (both well under the Papy time of 1:06.91. I was driving
a little aggresively though and neither of the two laps were what I'd
call good (poor line/balance etc.)
I started another session and put in 3 consecutive laps of
1:06.48/1:06.35 and 1:05.57, this 3rd lap, although pretty quick,
still had errors and was not that tidy. I was in a hotlap setting
mindset, so not leaving much margin for error.
I then did another session, where my plan was to brake very early
and take it very easy, leaving, IMO, plenty of margin for error. This
had 3 consecutive laps of 1:06.61/1:06.82 and 1:06.51, all very
sedate and all with obvious errors, even to the casual, GPLEGS
aware, observer.
In about 20 timed laps, 8 where under the Papy benchmark (I think a
one or two more may have been also, but I was looking for consecutive
ones) and one was over 1.3 seconds quicker.
I then tried Silverstone. I'd run this about 10 days ago, plus I was
now getting warmed up. Took the default setup again and on my first
and only 4 lap session I did a 1:30.51 3rd lap and a 1:28.85 4th lap.
There are still obvious errors in both laps, even the 1:28.85, even
though it is over 2 secs quicker than the Papy time.
I then tried Monza. In total doing an 8 lap session (poss 2 x 4s I
think). Lap 3 was 1:29.88, lap 8 was 1:29.34. In both Curva Grande was
very messy, as was Lesmo 2 (which as you know is v.important). Lap 8's
L2 was better although followed by a poor Ascari and hampered by a
poor run out of Parabolica on the previous lap. It was the better L2
that led to the better lap time.
I've no doubt had I put in another 6-8 laps I would have got into the
high 1:28s, although the gearing is not to my taste with the default
setup and I have driven more responsive setups.
In short then the default setups ARE well capable of beating the Papy
benchmarks, and by quite some way, 1.3 secs+ at WG, 2secs+ at
Silverstone and almost 1sec at Monza.
The only technique I'm using which is not heavily covered in GPLEGS is
trail-braking and I think without using it, I could still match the
Papy times.
The default setups are meant to be easy to drive and fairly neutral,
(in fact they understeer quite badly, but this is easier to handle for
the less experienced driver).
The requirement for a good setup is to allow you to feel totally in
control of the car, only when you are very, very close to that should
you start moving things around. You could jump straight in and use
other peoples setups, but they may be very difficult to control and
learn, and in fact, may hinder your progress.
The advantage with the default setups is you have the replays to go
with them (if they were in fact done with the default setups, I don't
know).
At least you can then see what gear you should be in, what line works
for that setups, what revs you should be pulling as you go under the
bridge etc.
There is very little opportunity for you to pick up replays and setups
for laptimes that are in your grasp, and that, with basic skills, you
can control effectively.
Whilst I'm not advocating that everyone stick with the defaults until
they get to a 0.0 rank, I do feel that you would progress quicker this
way than using odd setups from various different individuals at each
track etc., this is definitely a bad idea. By all means use Allisons,
which are still very neutral and very driveable, but stick to hers at
all circuits.
I personally don't feel I am able to detect subtle setup changes, nor
do I fully understand what I should be feeling, if I did alter the
toe-in, or make slight camber changes. I can appreciate roll-bar
stiffness and wheel (spring) rates but I'd be hard pushed to notice
subtle changes in either of these.
If you can then great, but if you are the wrong side of the Papy
benchmark, then forget playing with setups, your technique is still
not developed enough.
Maybe, if you are struggling, banging your head against the proverbial
brick-wall, switch back to the default setups, see how you go. I was
surprised at how much "better" the Silverstone setup was than
some I'd tried, and the WG one.
Comments welcomed as always.
Maxx
NOTE: The laps in DEFS.ZIP where produced to illustrate a
point, and done in a very short space of time, all have errors
so please do not treat these as anything special.
In case you missed it, the whole point of the above is not to
show how good I AM, but how good the default setups are,
and that IMO, if your +ve Rank and want to be lower, you'd
be better off spending time on practicing technique, than fiddling
with setups.
Now before all you setup guys start flaming, fiddling with
setups is great experience and well worth doing, as is trying
other peoples BUT, it is not the quickest way to zero Rank.
IMHO.
