rec.autos.simulators

GPL has great driving and......well....thats all really. Its missing
alot of things.

Take a look at flight sims like MS Flight Sim 98 or Flight Unlimited 2
for example. They are much closer to a true sim than GPL is. Why you
ask? Glad you asked. :)

In GPL do you start in the paddocks? No. In flight sims you start with
your plane docked a ways from the runway.

In GPL do you have to start the engine? No. In flight sims you have to
fire up the engine and adjust flaps and stuff. (Along these lines, if
one would spin out on the track you would probably kill the engine and
have to refire it up.)

In GPL do you hear public announcements for practice times? No. In
flight sims you have to communicate with the tower.

In GPL do you have to make you way to pit lane? No. In flight sims you
have to taxi to the runway.

My point is GPL could and should have been so much more than what it
is.  Perhaps I'm alone on this one but I feel the game would be much
more interesting if one had to do ALL the details of racing the car like
getting from the paddock to pit lane or having to actually flip some
switches then fire the car up or have to find you way around the paddock
and drive on to pit lane.

By adding a few different and interesting touches like these things, GPL
could have really put some polish on an already great game.

One could go really overboard and make one play the roll of a pit crew
member and have the view switch from driver to 'Quake type view'  when
one made pit stops. But one would have a impact gun or jack instead of a
weapon. One would be made to put a jack under the car, jack it up,
remove the lug nuts, change tires, install the lug nuts then remove the
jack. Then switch the view to 'fuel man' making one get the fuel
container, fill the car up etc etc. You get the idea.

Of course any of these things, if implemented, should be made optional
in the actual game.

Any thoughts on these ideas?

Kyle Millikin
WinstonCup
$4.99
RedLine MotorSports

No flaps and stuff in racing. All you would end up doing is hit a key to
start the engine. Not a big loss in my book.

In GPL, there is sounds from the announcer. Can you hear it? No...loud car
and no communications. That's why they used pit boards back then. Besides,
how can you compare the eras? '67 and '98?

Back in GPL times, they didn't pit. They had enough gas for an entire race,
and back then the tires would make it through more than one race. Why waste
the time rolling the car from the paddock to the pit?

I like GPL for racing, not the little stuff in between...it's a race car,
not a taxi.

Once again, they didn't make pit stops back then. I think you are thinking
of Nascar. Besides, the gamer is only one person. How long would it take to
do a pitstop? 2-3 minutes...even with switching from one crew member to
another.

Some points you have brought up aren't in your flying games...who's
refueling your plane? Pulling the chocks out from under the tires? Passing
out peanuts and sodas?

My thoughts..no flames, just thoughts...

   Yeah, I'll play.  :)

   OK, granted, having those things would be neat and would add to the
atmosphere of the game.  

   BUT, would they add anything to the driving experience?  Papyrus's
philosophy has always been to extract the maximum realism (within
current CPU limitations) from the on track experience.  No
compromises.  That is why they are regarded as the leaders in the
racing sims field.  Their sims are a bit sparse in some ways, but
"it's in there" once you put it on the track.

   You could add these bells and whistles, but at a cost.  It would
take development time.  Would these features sell more copies or
justify raising the price to pay for the development time?  Do you
ship late or cut corners on the game engine to add these features?  

   I recently got MS C:PR, and it follows the philosophy of trying to
offer you everything (nice driving school, for instance).  But, in
trying to do everything, corners were cut on essential items.  Does
having the driving school videos make up for having no tire
temperatures or poor AI?  Forget the garnish, give me my meat and
potatos, and I'll be happy.

   Frankly, some of these examples sound a bit like the Avault
reviewer who complained that he couldn't "realistically" run down the
spectators.  :)

NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

Interesting...but the only part I "liked" <g> was starting the engine.
In the C64 days, there was a brilliant Formula 3 sim by Mr. Crammond
called "Revs". You had to start the engine, and keep the clutch in. It
had a lumpy idle, and was a *** to restart when you spun : D

heh, one could add having to heat the plugs with a lighter, crank the
engine to remove fumes, bad cold coffee, lousy weather, mean hot-dog
salespersons....
But that's why simming is so nice, you don't have to go thru all that!

Matt_K, Norway

engine(s) already on. Does this mean they are bad sims?

buzard

You show me a version of Flight Simulator that, by default, starts you
anywhere but directly on the runway and I'll acknowledge that statement.

What "flaps and stuff" would you adjust on the car while you are in it?
You have a gas pedal, a brake pedal, a clutch, a stickshift, and a
steering wheel. That's it. All of that is modeled. As for starting the
engine, who cares? So you push a button to start the engine or it is
already started. There really isn't much difference.

In Flight Simulator you do not -have- to talk to the tower. Control
communications in Flight Simulator is totally superfluous. How would you
expect to talk to the announcer/pit crew in a simulation of 1967 racing?
There were no in car radios back then and the engine was so loud you
couldn't hear the PA system from the***pit. That's why they had pit
boards. That's why pit boards are modeled in GPL.

No you don't. You can land and exit the game without ever having to taxi
off of the active runway in Flight Simulator. Besides, they -didn't- pit
in 1960s era Grand Prix racing. They carried enough fuel for the entire
race and the tires were of a harder compound and lasted for numerous
races. But, I guess you've never been black-flagged in GPL. That will
happen, and when it does you -must- make your way to your pit and wait
until the officials let you back on to the track.

Your point is "GPL should've been a flight simulator". Your comparisons
are nonsensical, uninformed, and without merit. GPL simulates the forces,
physical effects, and set up options of a 1960s era F1 car. It is a
simulation of the car. Just because the machinery of that era was without
bells and whistles doesn't mean that GPL isn't a sim because it doesn't
simulate unnecessary stuff.

What things? "Flaps and stuff"? What would that add to the simulation?
Communications would be farsical. Pitting wouldn't be keeping with the
era of racing that is modeled. Your "touches" are nothing more than fluff
that is improper to the era of the simulation.

Yeah, I get the idea that your definition of a simulation is pretty
flawed. If one person had to do the job of 15 people, then it isn't an
accurate simulation. Pit stops would take longer than they did in reality
and the pit times would be abnormally skewed. The second you mentioned
"Quake" what little support your argument had was pulled out from
underneath it.

 Of course any of these things, if implemented, should be made optional

But ridiculous key press options like "engine starting" should be made
mandatory? I'm sorry, but "Pit Crew Legends" is a ridiculous option that
would've added an extraordinary amount of time to the development cycle
of the product and would've had an impact on the average buyer of exactly
NOTHING! It has no attraction to someone wanting to play a -driving-
simulation and would've increased the price of the product for no
apparent reason.

Yes, they are the thoughts of the ignorant.

I'm ashamed that this guy even has the same game as me!

        One of the vehicles in the Carmageddon 2 demo resembles a
Lotus 7.  Close enough?  :-)

Martin
Nigel Mansell RIP!

Well, that's the one part of your message (repeated in two subject lines) that
I agree with.

You're still here? I better check my kill-file settings.

No, I am not a "tad cranky". I just have this aversion to ignorance. Your
message had it in spades.

%   Sorry, this is all I need to read. Your in the wrong NG. Who gives a stuff about flight
% sims! How well is the suspension, tyre heating/distortion of the landing gear in flight
% sims compared to GPL? Bye bye!

I know it's not nice, but ROTFL!!!!  Great repartee!

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

<snipped many stuff not necessary>
Hey you forgot many things !! Indeed GPL is NOT a simulation. It's missing
soo many things you find in real life. I have the proof ;)

You can't get out of the car.

You can't walk back to the pits after you crashed.

You can't take your normal car and go back to the hotel after the race.

You can't also walk the dog.

You can't help the doctor for the birth of your child

You can't have fun to shoot a BFG-4000 at people in the grandstands after
you retired

But you can have a life, heh ?

No spectators were killed during the making of this post

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
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