rec.autos.simulators

by **bhoeni** » Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:06:42

As indicated in a few previous threads, I haven't been able to get RBR
to properly recognize my TSW pedals in split axis (haven't tried
combined), which I use along with my Logi MOMO Force Wheel. The peds
are recognized but the brake pedal axis is reversed. I tried using
DXTweak 2 but it won't allow me to reverse the axis. The peds are not
wired to the MOMO -- I use 2 separate controllers at the same time.

In a thread about sound issues, it was recommended to install DX9.0c.
(OS is WinXP Pro). I presently have 9.0b installed on my rig. Could
installing 9.0c possibly solve this problem? Does that somehow allow
DXTweak to support reversing an axis?

I know that I probably could just re-wire the brake pedal pot, but I'm
reluctant to do so, just because of a problem with one sim that may
eventually be addressed thru a patch anyway. Besides, I can always use
the Logi peds with RBR, although I really don't like'em.

Thanks!

by **Tony Rickar** » Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:27:39

> I know that I probably could just re-wire the brake pedal pot, but I'm
> reluctant to do so, just because of a problem with one sim that may
> eventually be addressed thru a patch anyway. Besides, I can always use
> the Logi peds with RBR, although I really don't like'em.

Bert,

I was reluctant to rewire my Thrustmaster pedals but it was a simple job and
I really couldn't see a situation where it would cause a problem.

The issue is the Windows drivers (like yours) see the split brake pedal as
starting from a high input and reucing as the pedal is pressed. This is
clearly visible in the calibration routine.

Therefore the sim needs to either recognise the starting point (pedal not
pressed) and the fully pressed figures to determine the correct set up or
offer a reverse axis option.

By turning it around so pressing the pedal increases input figure it
overcomes the need for this option in the sim, hence I cannot see any issue
in any other sim either now or in the future.

Hope this helps
Tony

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:08:35

Hmmm...why would it be "backwards" in the first place?

Marc

>> I know that I probably could just re-wire the brake pedal pot, but I'm
>> reluctant to do so, just because of a problem with one sim that may
>> eventually be addressed thru a patch anyway. Besides, I can always use
>> the Logi peds with RBR, although I really don't like'em.

> Bert,

> I was reluctant to rewire my Thrustmaster pedals but it was a simple job
> and
> I really couldn't see a situation where it would cause a problem.

> The issue is the Windows drivers (like yours) see the split brake pedal as
> starting from a high input and reucing as the pedal is pressed. This is
> clearly visible in the calibration routine.

> Therefore the sim needs to either recognise the starting point (pedal not
> pressed) and the fully pressed figures to determine the correct set up or
> offer a reverse axis option.

> By turning it around so pressing the pedal increases input figure it
> overcomes the need for this option in the sim, hence I cannot see any
> issue
> in any other sim either now or in the future.

> Hope this helps
> Tony

by **Bob Ge** » Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:45:02

I called Dave Thomas at TSW and he advised the proper fix to get the brake
pedal properly recognized was to swap the red and blue wires on the brake
pot. Simple recalibration in GPL and NR2003 was all that was necessary to
have the brake pedal recognized in those sims.

HTH

by **Glen Pittma** » Mon, 27 Sep 2004 01:10:05

That is how combined axis works. Lets say that the Axis range is 0-255,
then the brake and gas total resistance would be roughly 128. When the gas
is pressed, the resistance rises via the gas pot to about 255, but if the
brake is pressed the resistance drops to about 0. If both are pressed
together, the resistance remains somewhere near the 128 mark. So one must
increase, and the other must decrease. That also works in separate axis,
and almost all Sims will recognize that the brake is actually being applied,
even though the resistance is dropping.
The above numbers are actually just reference points applied to a particular
resistance based on the specs and travel of the various pots available, and
not necessarily the measured resistance.

It would be possible to install a DPDT switch in line with the brake pot to
reverse the signal by simply flipping the switch. This would allow the
pedal to go back to combined mode when required.

Glen Pittman

> Hmmm...why would it be "backwards" in the first place?

> Marc

>>> I know that I probably could just re-wire the brake pedal pot, but I'm
>>> reluctant to do so, just because of a problem with one sim that may
>>> eventually be addressed thru a patch anyway. Besides, I can always use
>>> the Logi peds with RBR, although I really don't like'em.

>> Bert,

>> I was reluctant to rewire my Thrustmaster pedals but it was a simple job
>> and
>> I really couldn't see a situation where it would cause a problem.

>> The issue is the Windows drivers (like yours) see the split brake pedal
>> as
>> starting from a high input and reucing as the pedal is pressed. This is
>> clearly visible in the calibration routine.

>> Therefore the sim needs to either recognise the starting point (pedal not
>> pressed) and the fully pressed figures to determine the correct set up or
>> offer a reverse axis option.

>> By turning it around so pressing the pedal increases input figure it
>> overcomes the need for this option in the sim, hence I cannot see any
>> issue
>> in any other sim either now or in the future.

>> Hope this helps
>> Tony

by **Gary Ante** » Mon, 27 Sep 2004 01:43:33

That's exactly what I did and everything works great now; it only took
me about 10 minutes to complete the whole job.

The only setback is that you no longer cam use combined axis. If this
isn't a problem for you the wire switch is the best solution, as it not
only fixes RBR but any other problem sims like CRM, RT and the god-awful
Indycar Series.

by **bhoeni** » Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:34:47

Thanks Guys. I guess that I'll give that a go, then, since I NEVER use combined
axis.

> > I called Dave Thomas at TSW and he advised the proper fix to get the brake
> > pedal properly recognized was to swap the red and blue wires on the brake
> > pot. Simple recalibration in GPL and NR2003 was all that was necessary to
> > have the brake pedal recognized in those sims.

> > HTH

> That's exactly what I did and everything works great now; it only took
> me about 10 minutes to complete the whole job.

> The only setback is that you no longer cam use combined axis. If this
> isn't a problem for you the wire switch is the best solution, as it not
> only fixes RBR but any other problem sims like CRM, RT and the god-awful
> Indycar Series.

by **bhoeni** » Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:35:40

Thanks Tony. I'll give that try but only AFTER tomorrow night's league race.
8-)

> > I know that I probably could just re-wire the brake pedal pot, but I'm
> > reluctant to do so, just because of a problem with one sim that may
> > eventually be addressed thru a patch anyway. Besides, I can always use
> > the Logi peds with RBR, although I really don't like'em.

> Bert,

> I was reluctant to rewire my Thrustmaster pedals but it was a simple job and
> I really couldn't see a situation where it would cause a problem.

> The issue is the Windows drivers (like yours) see the split brake pedal as
> starting from a high input and reucing as the pedal is pressed. This is
> clearly visible in the calibration routine.

> Therefore the sim needs to either recognise the starting point (pedal not
> pressed) and the fully pressed figures to determine the correct set up or
> offer a reverse axis option.

> By turning it around so pressing the pedal increases input figure it
> overcomes the need for this option in the sim, hence I cannot see any issue
> in any other sim either now or in the future.

> Hope this helps
> Tony

by **bhoeni** » Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:19:10

OK. Keep in mind that this comes from someone who is "mechanically
challenged". I see the pot, the red wire, and the blue wire. How exactly do
you swap the wires? They appear to soldered onto the pot.

Keep in mind that I have an original TSW which (I think) uses different pots
from the TSW2.

Thanks!

> I called Dave Thomas at TSW and he advised the proper fix to get the brake
> pedal properly recognized was to swap the red and blue wires on the brake
> pot. Simple recalibration in GPL and NR2003 was all that was necessary to
> have the brake pedal recognized in those sims.

> HTH

> > As indicated in a few previous threads, I haven't been able to get RBR
> > to properly recognize my TSW pedals in split axis (haven't tried
> > combined), which I use along with my Logi MOMO Force Wheel. The peds
> > are recognized but the brake pedal axis is reversed. I tried using
> > DXTweak 2 but it won't allow me to reverse the axis. The peds are not
> > wired to the MOMO -- I use 2 separate controllers at the same time.

> > In a thread about sound issues, it was recommended to install DX9.0c.
> > (OS is WinXP Pro). I presently have 9.0b installed on my rig. Could
> > installing 9.0c possibly solve this problem? Does that somehow allow
> > DXTweak to support reversing an axis?

> > I know that I probably could just re-wire the brake pedal pot, but I'm
> > reluctant to do so, just because of a problem with one sim that may
> > eventually be addressed thru a patch anyway. Besides, I can always use
> > the Logi peds with RBR, although I really don't like'em.

> > Thanks!

by **Bob Ge** » Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:58:51

My setup is exactly the same. Simply heat the soldered joint until you can
work the wire out of it. You may need needle nose pliers to straighten the
wire as you remove it. Trust me, it really is not very difficult at all.
In fact, by this time, you've probably already done it.

> OK. Keep in mind that this comes from someone who is "mechanically
> challenged". I see the pot, the red wire, and the blue wire. How exactly
> do
> you swap the wires? They appear to soldered onto the pot.

> Keep in mind that I have an original TSW which (I think) uses different
> pots
> from the TSW2.

> Thanks!

>> I called Dave Thomas at TSW and he advised the proper fix to get the
>> brake
>> pedal properly recognized was to swap the red and blue wires on the brake
>> pot. Simple recalibration in GPL and NR2003 was all that was necessary
>> to
>> have the brake pedal recognized in those sims.

>> HTH

>> > As indicated in a few previous threads, I haven't been able to get RBR
>> > to properly recognize my TSW pedals in split axis (haven't tried
>> > combined), which I use along with my Logi MOMO Force Wheel. The peds
>> > are recognized but the brake pedal axis is reversed. I tried using
>> > DXTweak 2 but it won't allow me to reverse the axis. The peds are not
>> > wired to the MOMO -- I use 2 separate controllers at the same time.

>> > In a thread about sound issues, it was recommended to install DX9.0c.
>> > (OS is WinXP Pro). I presently have 9.0b installed on my rig. Could
>> > installing 9.0c possibly solve this problem? Does that somehow allow
>> > DXTweak to support reversing an axis?

>> > I know that I probably could just re-wire the brake pedal pot, but I'm
>> > reluctant to do so, just because of a problem with one sim that may
>> > eventually be addressed thru a patch anyway. Besides, I can always use
>> > the Logi peds with RBR, although I really don't like'em.

>> > Thanks!

by **Bob Ge** » Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:00:53

Clarification "Simply heat the soldered joint *with a soldering iron* until
you.....

> My setup is exactly the same. Simply heat the soldered joint until you
> can work the wire out of it. You may need needle nose pliers to
> straighten the wire as you remove it. Trust me, it really is not very
> difficult at all. In fact, by this time, you've probably already done it.

>> OK. Keep in mind that this comes from someone who is "mechanically
>> challenged". I see the pot, the red wire, and the blue wire. How
>> exactly do
>> you swap the wires? They appear to soldered onto the pot.

>> Keep in mind that I have an original TSW which (I think) uses different
>> pots
>> from the TSW2.

>> Thanks!

>>> I called Dave Thomas at TSW and he advised the proper fix to get the
>>> brake
>>> pedal properly recognized was to swap the red and blue wires on the
>>> brake
>>> pot. Simple recalibration in GPL and NR2003 was all that was necessary
>>> to
>>> have the brake pedal recognized in those sims.

>>> HTH

>>> > As indicated in a few previous threads, I haven't been able to get RBR
>>> > to properly recognize my TSW pedals in split axis (haven't tried
>>> > combined), which I use along with my Logi MOMO Force Wheel. The peds
>>> > are recognized but the brake pedal axis is reversed. I tried using
>>> > DXTweak 2 but it won't allow me to reverse the axis. The peds are not
>>> > wired to the MOMO -- I use 2 separate controllers at the same time.

>>> > In a thread about sound issues, it was recommended to install DX9.0c.
>>> > (OS is WinXP Pro). I presently have 9.0b installed on my rig. Could
>>> > installing 9.0c possibly solve this problem? Does that somehow allow
>>> > DXTweak to support reversing an axis?

>>> > I know that I probably could just re-wire the brake pedal pot, but I'm
>>> > reluctant to do so, just because of a problem with one sim that may
>>> > eventually be addressed thru a patch anyway. Besides, I can always
>>> > use
>>> > the Logi peds with RBR, although I really don't like'em.

>>> > Thanks!

by **bhoeni** » Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:35:17

Actually, no, I haven't done it. I"ve never soldered or de-soldered anything,
so am not comfortable doing it to my brake pot.

FWIW, I contacted Dave Thomas of TSW to inquire if he'd re-wire a pot and sell
it to me. He suggested that I just use combined mode on the peds, since rally
games are just "for fun" and split-axis would probable be of no benefit anyway
(his words). He stated that hadn't heard of RBR. Well, I explained that RBR is
more than just a "for fun" thing and that split-axis most definitely would be
advantageous.

But, I guess that I'll just wait for a proper patch to address this. RBR is
still great fun with combined axis. I sure it's even moreso with split-axis.

> My setup is exactly the same. Simply heat the soldered joint until you can
> work the wire out of it. You may need needle nose pliers to straighten the
> wire as you remove it. Trust me, it really is not very difficult at all.
> In fact, by this time, you've probably already done it.

> > OK. Keep in mind that this comes from someone who is "mechanically
> > challenged". I see the pot, the red wire, and the blue wire. How exactly
> > do
> > you swap the wires? They appear to soldered onto the pot.

> > Keep in mind that I have an original TSW which (I think) uses different
> > pots
> > from the TSW2.

> > Thanks!

> >> I called Dave Thomas at TSW and he advised the proper fix to get the
> >> brake
> >> pedal properly recognized was to swap the red and blue wires on the brake
> >> pot. Simple recalibration in GPL and NR2003 was all that was necessary
> >> to
> >> have the brake pedal recognized in those sims.

> >> HTH

> >> > As indicated in a few previous threads, I haven't been able to get RBR
> >> > to properly recognize my TSW pedals in split axis (haven't tried
> >> > combined), which I use along with my Logi MOMO Force Wheel. The peds
> >> > are recognized but the brake pedal axis is reversed. I tried using
> >> > DXTweak 2 but it won't allow me to reverse the axis. The peds are not
> >> > wired to the MOMO -- I use 2 separate controllers at the same time.

> >> > In a thread about sound issues, it was recommended to install DX9.0c.
> >> > (OS is WinXP Pro). I presently have 9.0b installed on my rig. Could
> >> > installing 9.0c possibly solve this problem? Does that somehow allow
> >> > DXTweak to support reversing an axis?

> >> > I know that I probably could just re-wire the brake pedal pot, but I'm
> >> > reluctant to do so, just because of a problem with one sim that may
> >> > eventually be addressed thru a patch anyway. Besides, I can always use
> >> > the Logi peds with RBR, although I really don't like'em.

> >> > Thanks!

by **Tony Rickar** » Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:16:29

> Actually, no, I haven't done it. I"ve never soldered or de-soldered
anything,
> so am not comfortable doing it to my brake pot.

If it doesn't need to look a professional job soldering is really very
easy. You can probably get away with heating up the existing solder to
release the wires and just heat it up again to resolder the wires back on
having switched them

To be honest I haven't noticed an obvious gain like I do in GPL, though
this may be just me. Certainly no clear improvement in stage times. It
could be my lack of precision though, I tend to enjoy the frenetic approach
to rallying rather than necessarily the fastest!

by **Plowboy** » Thu, 30 Sep 2004 06:15:20

BRH where do you live?

it is sooo easy to solder this (on the pot) that you could do it with a
torch, although I wouldnt use one. all you have to do is heat the tin
connector juse enough to melt solder (that silver stuff). it isnt like your
going to solder a PCB board or nothing, I bet you have a *** friend or
stereo installer nearby who could do this for you in about 30 seconds, for
as litttle as a soda pop.

if you were near me, I would do it for you, though I doubt ya live anywere
near where I do.

Tony Rickard enlightened us with:

>> Actually, no, I haven't done it. I"ve never soldered or de-soldered
>> anything, so am not comfortable doing it to my brake pot.

> If it doesn't need to look a professional job soldering is really very
> easy. You can probably get away with heating up the existing solder to
> release the wires and just heat it up again to resolder the wires
> back on having switched them

>> FWIW, I contacted Dave Thomas of TSW to inquire if he'd re-wire a
>> pot and sell it to me. He suggested that I just use combined mode
>> on the peds, since rally games are just "for fun" and split-axis
>> would probable be of no benefit anyway (his words). He stated that
>> hadn't heard of RBR. Well, I explained that RBR is more than just a
>> "for fun" thing and that split-axis most definitely would be
>> advantageous.

> To be honest I haven't noticed an obvious gain like I do in GPL,
> though this may be just me. Certainly no clear improvement in stage
> times. It could be my lack of precision though, I tend to enjoy the
> frenetic approach to rallying rather than necessarily the fastest!

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:36:35

Fortunately I can't afford a TSW or any other premium wheel, but the
consistant problems that owners have regarding calibration or pedal
direction is a constant thought in the back of my mind to avoid those
types of products.
Surely well made, but for some reason, not 100% compatible with
mainstream input products. I do have a question, the TSW line has finally
gone to the USB input, do USB TSW users also have this split axis problem
in RBR or any other sim?

dave henrie

rec.autos.simulators

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....

A Thought About RBR Controller Issues....