Archive rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

adsale

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by adsale » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 06:37:40


> > Y

> That's stretching, but np I guess.  You want to be called "Gee" or "G."?
> Ali G.? :)

People have called me UG since the first day I went online with UncleGoy
as my screen name, I don't mind, I do mind when people can't be bothered
to spell my name correctly, which I find distinctively odd since it only
has 3 characters......

They must have the same problem as the shop lifters who steals empty
game covers from my shop despite the fact that I've posted big signs
telling people that the covers are empty, guess reading and writing and
spelling isn't important anymore, just as long as you gets to play
"your" computer game

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

ymenar

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by ymenar » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 06:48:32


> They must have the same problem as the shop lifters who steals empty
> game covers from my shop despite the fact that I've posted big signs
> telling people that the covers are empty, guess reading and writing and
> spelling isn't important anymore, just as long as you gets to play
> "your" computer game

I bet it's competitors that try to take the favorite games away from *your*
shelves, so that the clients to go their store instead as they don't find
the box in yours :)

What kind of box size are European games now?  Here in North America most of
the publishers have adopted the smaller size box, which is about the same
size as a DVD but a little ticker (as it's still a cardboard-type box).
I've said it will increase shop lifting, considering the box can easily fit
on the inside pocket of a coat.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Ian

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Ian » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:29:34

I can't say for the rest of Europe, but here in UK most new games come in
DVD covers now.

--

Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>

"ymenard" wrote

Jan Verschuere

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Jan Verschuere » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:44:09

I don't know. I don't think so, actually. We do seem to have different
levels of tolerance towards them.

Of the two people who fell victim to this penalty I've spoken to, neither
realised one has to come to a full stop in the escape road at the IL to
avoid the penalty. I will agree with you these people should have read their
manual (page 17), but on the other hand the penalty only messes them up and
promotes drivers who either knew the rules or had enough car control to stay
out of trouble. Losing a race or a couple positions because one wasn't
prepared enough is the self punishing nature of motorracing and is the way
most people learn the finer points. I'm quite happy to let nature take it's
course in this respect. I also wouldn't have minded sitting out a subsequent
yellow if they'd been enabled.

There is quite a mix of ability present at RASCAR events, which is
consistent with it's conception. RASCAR was born out of a hesitation by
several r.a.s. posters, experienced online GPL simmers and relative
beginners to venture into online NASCAR racing, as the online climate for
these games was perceived to be newbie hostile. I came up with the idea of
hosting races for r.a.s. posters on a private server, so we wouldn't have to
fear retribution in the form of verbal abuse or having our CD-key revoked if
we got off on the wrong foot. No commitment, no points, just races. Almost
immediately there was interest from experienced online NASCAR racers to also
participate. As r.a.s. contributers, they obviously were allowed to race,
but I think it was made clear at the outset that they'd be sharing the track
with people to whom the oval experience, at best, was a new one.

This doesn't mean anything goes. Far from it... people who failed to realise
they were causing trouble have had their comeuppance<sp?> on this very
forum. Again, my replay of the race fails to show any significant dunderhead
driving. Couple of guys tripped over eachother as I was about to lap them
and that got pretty ugly, as online accidents have a tendency to do under
the influence of latency, but otherwise it looked ok to me. Over abundance
of yellows has been reduced significantly over the more recent races.

Pretty much like I said in the beginning, those who can pick it up fairly
quickly will, those who can't will drop out over time. It's a process every
"new" online group goes through.

Well, it's my opinion even the worst RASCAR race is better than any pickup
race as I don't have to sit and "listen" to people calling eachother
"dickhead" when an accident occurs.

However, it's clear your expectations of online NASCAR races differ greatly
and it's indeed your perogative to not do something that is no fun to you.

Well, I care as the more experienced races are in a given race, the greater
peer pressure is to keep one's shit together.

I know where you're coming from, though... you have a racer outlook on
racing. I like that, eventhough I think you carry it through to far when in
view of the many people treating simracing as recreation rather than sport.
Current situation is such that anyone buying the game has and, somewhat
justifiably, expects almost default access to a fairly high level of
competition. Indicriminantly passing out hard truths is not going to make
one a popular character in these circles.

That said, seeing as I'm sort of responsible for this whole "mess" (having
suggested the races and bought the server copy of the game) I'd like to
apologise for the reaction this message provoked from some posters. I take
it as a testament to your character and your dedication to simming you made
some suggestions nonetheless, although I would have preferred you had not
taken it upon yourself to launch a vote on the issue.

Regards,

Jan.
=---

adsale

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by adsale » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:48:03


> What kind of box size are European games now?  Here in North America most of
> the publishers have adopted the smaller size box, which is about the same
> size as a DVD but a little ticker (as it's still a cardboard-type box).
> I've said it will increase shop lifting, considering the box can easily fit
> on the inside pocket of a coat.

Most games over here now are in DVD covers, as a shop owner I like it as
it lets me stack more games on same amount of shelf space, as for theft,
well, we've always had theft and you can only do so much to stop them, I
won't go beyond strip searching female customers age 18-40

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Mitch_

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Mitch_ » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:21:34

If you do the strip searches can you hire a *consultant* for the cavity
searches?  I'm available :-)  On the other hand Euro women don't shave much
do they?  Hehe..

Mitch


Larr

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Larr » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:54:59

Would it be possible to do a login test BEFORE the 4pm race on Saturday?

-Larry








> > > writes:

> > > >There was a fair amount of discussion in here.....and
> > > >before the race on Saturday about making the races "by invitation
> > > >only"....so they could attempt to put the experienced drivers
> > > >together....and the novices together (at least, that's what I assumed
"by
> > > >invitation only" meant).  I didn't know if that had happened or
> > not.....and
> > > >when I got to the RASCAR race server on Saturday.....there was a lot
of
> > > >discussion about this with about half the guys for it......half
against
> > (it
> > > >seemed to me).

> > > They were talking about the 'invite list' on the server Saturday?
That
> > must
> > > have been before I got there.  Yes, starting next Saturday(8/14, at
> > Michigan)
> > > the race server will use the invite list.  I don't know if that
changes
> > your
> > > mind on running, since you might not know who's on the list...<g>

> > > Eldred

> > Eldred,

> > Don't know if I am on the invite list or not as I have not run in many
> > races, but I do hope to start running with you guys soon, so if you can
see
> > fit to add me I would greatly appreciate it.

> > Thanks,

> > Don Burnette

> If you're in the roster, and if your Sierra ID is correct (according to
> the roster), you'll be able to join.

> --
> =========================================================
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> RASCAR Roster
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

Larr

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Larr » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:55:47

The answer is in the name.

RASCAR is based on the RAS newsgroup and is for RAS readers.

Makes sense that it be here.

-Larry


> If the RASCAR races are going to be invite only and require car files to
be
> submitted why not take it offline from here and run it like other leagues.
> The RASCAR discussion seems to be the dominate one here now.  Hard to read
> through all the noise to find other happenings.  Those of us involved in
> other leagues don't use this as our forum.
> Not trying to be an ass on this, but if it's not an open race for people
> that post here then it should be run like any other league or group IMHO.





> > writes:

> > >There was a fair amount of discussion in here.....and
> > >before the race on Saturday about making the races "by invitation
> > >only"....so they could attempt to put the experienced drivers
> > >together....and the novices together (at least, that's what I assumed
"by
> > >invitation only" meant).  I didn't know if that had happened or
> not.....and
> > >when I got to the RASCAR race server on Saturday.....there was a lot of
> > >discussion about this with about half the guys for it......half against
> (it
> > >seemed to me).

> > They were talking about the 'invite list' on the server Saturday?  That
> must
> > have been before I got there.  Yes, starting next Saturday(8/14, at
> Michigan)
> > the race server will use the invite list.  I don't know if that changes
> your
> > mind on running, since you might not know who's on the list...<g>

> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > GPLRank:+8.09
> > N2002 Rank:+22.329

> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Tom Pabs

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Tom Pabs » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:52:28

Yes I did.

TP



> > I thought it was Farnk

> Shhhhh, Tom never went to see the MHO group, you know 8)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Tom Pabs

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Tom Pabs » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:10:01

Thanks, John....for calling it like it is.  I wasn't even going to say
anything to anyone....because I'm used to things getting blown out of all
hell, if I sneeze or something.

But, when John Simmons asked about my car file.....I (like a dummy) told him
not take up the car number slot, because I wouldn't be racing in RASCAR
until it was an "invite only" event.  I made the suggestions of having two
race groups......because actually I would like to run in the "novice" group
as well....just not every Saturday.  I regularly like to race with or help
out new drivers.  The "novice RASCAR" race would be a perfect place to do
that (IMHO).  But, heck...that got blown out of proportion too!  I really
don't see why letting the veteran RAS visitors race together is some kind of
"elitist" thing....that's crap, in my book.

So, maybe I should ask it this way:  Can we have a "veterans RASCAR" race on
Saturdays?  AND, an "open-to-anyone RASCAR" race on Saturday's too?

I'm ducking already.....lol....

Thanks John......I appreciated reading a sane and rational post in this
string (although several guys did....so I shouldn't get upset with the few
you emulate Mr. Frances "Yves" Menard......I guess -:)

Tom



> > If you guys think that I don't have the right to choose who I want to
> > friggin' race with....then you can go frig yourselves!

> I'm not sure why everyone else is so upset about your comments, Tom.  I
> know if I had been racing on saturday (I've attended I think three RASCAR
> events) I would have been one of the many drivers who would have
frustrated
> you.  As you rightly say, you don't want to race in a RASCAR race where
> just anyone can show up, where that means you can't enjoy the racing at a
> level you're accustomed to.  I'm baffled why everyone else takes this so
> personally!  As you say, what you do with your leisure time is your own
> business, and if RASCAR doesn't fit your bill, you won't participate.
> Again, I can't see a problem there.  I've stayed out of the races myself
> for a few weeks now, as I know I'm lacking in enough quality to at least
> not be a problem for other racers, so I restrict myself to practicing
> offline.  So both you, and I, currently don't wish to race in RASCAR as it
> stands, for different reasons, but I'm betting nobody is going to kick up
a
> stink about my reasons!

> Tom, you do what you want to do, I just can't believe anyone else has an
> opinion on what you do or don't do!

> When RASCAR comes round to some tracks I've done some serious work on,
I'll
> hopefully join in.  I doubt I'll see you there, but that's not the end of
> the world, either :o)

> cheers
> John

Tom Pabs

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Tom Pabs » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:25:29

Jan....

The "vote" was intended to be an informal way for somebody to get a handle
on the consensus opinion of the whether veteran only races and open to all
races was something that was wanted or not wanted.  It was to provide those
of you who are organizing and running the RASCAR server, website,
etc.....some information about the groups thoughts on the topic (with an
objective "vote").......and for no other purpose.

I'm also not trying to change what you guys are doing (despite Frances'
insistence on that).  I was trying to explain why I wouldn't want to
participate, and then what would make me want to participate in the future.
What's not posted in this string, is that I was told in the race chat room
on Saturday that when Eldred returned to running the RASCAR server on
Saturdays, that an "invite only" list would be implemented.  Then I was told
here on r.a.s. that it would not.  So my suggestion was adding a "open to
all" race group to the "invite only" race group.....not the other way
around.

But...things got blown out of proportion....perhaps by a few who only read
part of the posts in the string.....??  Who knows.

No harm, no foul.....

Tom

"Jan Verschueren" <jan.NO_SPAM.verschue...@pandora.be> wrote in message

news:ZSW59.62457$8o4.8392@afrodite.telenet-ops.be...
> "Tom Pabst" wrote...
> > Jan...

> > I'm not trying to be a smartass....but do you think perhaps
> > we might have different "standards" of what we consider
> > "mistakes?"

> I don't know. I don't think so, actually. We do seem to have different
> levels of tolerance towards them.

> > At least a third of the field in yesterday's RASCAR-WG race
> > should not have been in that race (or any online race at WG
> > - IMHO).  They couldn't control their cars well enough to
> > stay on track for more than a lap or two....some weren't that
> > good (look at the penalties list...for how many "cuts" of the
> > IL were handed out....I haven't seen that many penalties for
> > that infraction since the last "pickup" race I ran at WG on
> > Sierra.com.....lol........funny...but really not so funny).

> Of the two people who fell victim to this penalty I've spoken to, neither
> realised one has to come to a full stop in the escape road at the IL to
> avoid the penalty. I will agree with you these people should have read
their
> manual (page 17), but on the other hand the penalty only messes them up
and
> promotes drivers who either knew the rules or had enough car control to
stay
> out of trouble. Losing a race or a couple positions because one wasn't
> prepared enough is the self punishing nature of motorracing and is the way
> most people learn the finer points. I'm quite happy to let nature take
it's
> course in this respect. I also wouldn't have minded sitting out a
subsequent
> yellow if they'd been enabled.

> > A "mistake" (on a road course) is missing an apex or braking
> > point by a foot or two.....or maybe failing to adjust a
> >braking point up track as the tires transition, resulting in a
> > dropped wheel into the grass and a 1/2 second added to the lap
> > time.  I'm not going to hammer this issue.......I think the
> > point is made. I would have enjoyed racing the guys in the
> > top-10, unfortunately the quality of the rest of the drivers
> > prevented that.

> There is quite a mix of ability present at RASCAR events, which is
> consistent with it's conception. RASCAR was born out of a hesitation by
> several r.a.s. posters, experienced online GPL simmers and relative
> beginners to venture into online NASCAR racing, as the online climate for
> these games was perceived to be newbie hostile. I came up with the idea of
> hosting races for r.a.s. posters on a private server, so we wouldn't have
to
> fear retribution in the form of verbal abuse or having our CD-key revoked
if
> we got off on the wrong foot. No commitment, no points, just races. Almost
> immediately there was interest from experienced online NASCAR racers to
also
> participate. As r.a.s. contributers, they obviously were allowed to race,
> but I think it was made clear at the outset that they'd be sharing the
track
> with people to whom the oval experience, at best, was a new one.

> This doesn't mean anything goes. Far from it... people who failed to
realise
> they were causing trouble have had their comeuppance<sp?> on this very
> forum. Again, my replay of the race fails to show any significant
dunderhead
> driving. Couple of guys tripped over eachother as I was about to lap them
> and that got pretty ugly, as online accidents have a tendency to do under
> the influence of latency, but otherwise it looked ok to me. Over abundance
> of yellows has been reduced significantly over the more recent races.

> Pretty much like I said in the beginning, those who can pick it up fairly
> quickly will, those who can't will drop out over time. It's a process
every
> "new" online group goes through.

> > Its is my opinion that this will continue as long as the RASCAR events
> > fail to distinguish between the wide disparity of  racing experience
> > that exists among visitors to r.a.s.  The fact that you can sign on to
> > a newsgroup, make a post....doesn't/shouldn't automatically give you a
> > "ticket" into an online race in N2K2.  As it stands, the RASCAR events
> > (IMHO) will continue to be nothing more than pickup races on Sierra.com
> > ......and I can do that 24/7 without having to dedicate a window of
> > valuable time on my weekends.

> > Unless you guys decide to run "invitation only" RASCAR races, or maybe
> > even hold "experienced" and "beginners" races separately.....I won't be
> > running with you again.  As I said at the top, I'm not trying to be a
> > smartass about this.  But, I've earned the right to choose who I want
> > to race with/against.....with thousands of hours of practice and race
> > experience.
> > If I choose not to race with beginners....I don't think that should
> > automatically put them down or anything like that.  I was a beginner
> > once, too.  And at fully more than a third of the N2K2 tracks.......I
> > still am a beginner.  But, I respect racing and the other competitors
> > on the track with me enough not to enter races where I'll be nothing
> > more than a moving chicane, unable to do much more than stay on the
> > track for a lap or two, unable to run competitive laps AND watch my
> > mirrors, AND maintain complete "race situational awareness" AND hold
> > my line when lapped....etc., etc. My "hat is off" to those guys who
> > qualified in the top-10 yesterday......and those who had enough good
> > judgment about their racing abilities and experience at WG-N2K2.......
> > not to have entered the RASCAR race yesterday.

> Well, it's my opinion even the worst RASCAR race is better than any pickup
> race as I don't have to sit and "listen" to people calling eachother
> "dickhead" when an accident occurs.

> However, it's clear your expectations of online NASCAR races differ
greatly
> and it's indeed your perogative to not do something that is no fun to you.

> > And, ultimately - I don't think anyone really gives a rats-ass
> > whether I run in the RASCAR events or not.  The way you guys are
> > running these events as of now, my choice is "not."  And, that's
> > a decision I have a right to make. If someone gets offended by that
> > ......then that's their problem, not mine.

> > I have a strong suspicion that I am not the only one who has this
> > opinion of the RASCAR events.....as they've been so far.  But,
> > that's really not even important in the long run.

> Well, I care as the more experienced races are in a given race, the
greater
> peer pressure is to keep one's shit together.

> I know where you're coming from, though... you have a racer outlook on
> racing. I like that, eventhough I think you carry it through to far when
in
> view of the many people treating simracing as recreation rather than
sport.
> Current situation is such that anyone buying the game has and, somewhat
> justifiably, expects almost default access to a fairly high level of
> competition. Indicriminantly passing out hard truths is not going to make
> one a popular character in these circles.

> That said, seeing as I'm sort of responsible for this whole "mess" (having
> suggested the races and bought the server copy of the game) I'd like to
> apologise for the reaction this message provoked from some posters. I take
> it as a testament to your character and your dedication to simming you
made
> some suggestions nonetheless, although I would have preferred you had not
> taken it upon yourself to launch a vote on the issue.

> Regards,

> Jan.
> =---

John Simmon

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by John Simmon » Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:01:43




> > What kind of box size are European games now?  Here in North America most of
> > the publishers have adopted the smaller size box, which is about the same
> > size as a DVD but a little ticker (as it's still a cardboard-type box).
> > I've said it will increase shop lifting, considering the box can easily fit
> > on the inside pocket of a coat.

> Most games over here now are in DVD covers, as a shop owner I like it as
> it lets me stack more games on same amount of shelf space, as for theft,
> well, we've always had theft and you can only do so much to stop them, I
> won't go beyond strip searching female customers age 18-40

Make sure you film the strip search so that an independant auditing  
firm can verify that the search is being properly conducted.  Did I
mention that I recently started just such a firm?

(Make sure they're bound securely so they can't escape, and spank the
really *** ones - pant pant pant.)

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

Eldre

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Eldre » Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:09:42

If you were reacting to someone who said I would NOT be using an invite list,
then they misled you.  I stated 2 or 3 weeks ago that when I started hosting
again, the races would no longer be 'open' to anyone who stumbled into RAS...
Passwords will be changed, and you'll need to be on the list.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+8.09
N2002 Rank:+22.329

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Eldre » Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:54:16

Down, boy - DOWN!
:-)

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPLRank:+8.09
N2002 Rank:+22.329

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

RASCAR: Hey Tom Pabst

by Eldre » Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:54:54

Um, yes.
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
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N2002 Rank:+22.329

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