rec.autos.simulators

Heres my list of what I would like to see in NASCAR 3... feel free to
add to it

1. Cars that dont get stuck behind cars stopped on the track (ie after a
crash)
2. AI cars that dont drive through each other during high speed
collisions during large crashes
3. No canned spins (cars spontaneously spinning out)
4. AI that will sometimes bump other cars
5. Side by side restarts
6. 3d sound support
7. Cars leave tire marks on the road
8. Cars leave tire marks on the walls and on other cars (yeah, this is
probably asking a bit much)
9. 3D pit and other walls (like in F1RS)... none of them 2d walls
10.  Cars not restricted to a pre-programmed "best line" around the
track (not sure how possible this is... but didnt they do it in SODA?)

Brian Short

Maybe it sounds stupid, but I would like to have a view from a grandstand in
the replay mode :)
It's like I'm just a spectator watching the race from my seat.

Dmitry

When the car gets damaged.  I would like to be able to jump out of the pits
to keep from going a lap down and go around and come back in to finish
repairs, like they do in real life....

Dave

    This post pertains to multiplayer Nascar3. I am curious what percentage
of people use multiplayer vs. offline racing against the computer.

    I find multiplayer on kali to be many times more exhilirating than
racing the computer AI cars. I race online via kali (http://www.racesimcentral.net/ )I
have yet to try NROS on TEN but I hear that racing against 20 other drivers
with damage on is the ultimate.

    Most all of the items I've seen so far have had to do with improving the
graphics and the computer AI experience. These all of course would improve
the final product. However it seems a large percentage of the readers in
this newsgroup appreciate, thrive on, and have come to expect the ultimate
in real life simulation from Papyrus products and specifically the Nascar
genre. IMHO there is nothing that adds to the realistic nature of a racing
sim than going head to head against another human. Multiplayer racing gets
your heart pounding and puts you through an emotional roller coaster. Are
there many of you out there who race online or via modem?

    I may be wrong about this but it seems to me that adding all of the
bells and whistles that have been suggested would be an overwhelming task to
the developers and make the final program huge and drive the hardware
requirements very high. Of course I would eventually like to see everything
imaginable included. This fact may make for several more Nascar racing
versions in the future, I would certainly purchase each new release in the
relentless pursuit of the most realistic experience possible. The reality of
meeting release dates and profitability naturally force companies to
prioritize development efforts. And in contrast to graphical and AI
enhancements it seems to me that improving the multiplayer experience is
much more readily achievable in a shorter period of time and perhaps with
fewer resources. But Papyrus also must consider the target users and how
they will use Nascar3. So I feel that those who enjoy multiplayer must also
voice their desires both so that their suggestions may be included and also
so that Papyrus understands the demand for the best online experience.

    Also on a business note it seems that with services such as NROS Papyrus
has a vehicle to generate continuous income after the initial sale. These
'users' may perhaps also be categorized as a devoted market who seek the
ultimate in realism. This is a market that should expand among users who
have only raced against the AI and yet also desire the ultimate in realism.
This target market IMHO only needs to be enticed to try racing online. Once
they have experienced the thrill and meaning given to beating a real person
they would be hooked. Once hooked on the multiplayer experience and the
services provided, this devoted market would expand - expanding the revenue
stream and locking in users to future releases. In light of these points it
seems to me that there is considerable incentive to Papyrus to optimize the
multiplayer experience thus putting its development higher on the priority
list. Multiplayer racing best meets the desire of Papyrus fans and the goals
of Papyrus by delivering the best in real world simulation.

    To improve the already superlative experience of multiplayer Nascar
racing I would like to see the following improvements:

1.) The ability to watch the rest of a race as a spectator in the event you
blow your engine or are disqualified or even if you just drop out of a race
because you are so far behind or completely frustrated. Currently your only
options are to sit it out on the side of the track or in the pits (very
boring) or disconnect. For instance Mechwarrior by Activision gives players
this capability and it can be fun just to watch your friends battling it
out. In the pursuit of realism some people have formed teams on NROS to
compete at the highest levels and even obtain real sponsors! Perhaps if
people who are not racing but would like to enjoy *** competition at its
best could connect and watch a race as a spectator in real time the audience
for sponsors would grow as in real life. These spectators seeing the truly
exciting race and harboring their own hopes of driving as skillfully would
soon become paying members of an online service. Perhaps this could be
achieved by using some type of broadcast technology.

2.) A more robust network connection scheme. In Nascar2 when trying to join
a multiplayer game if the connection cannot be established I typically have
to exit all the way out of N2 and go back in. This is frustrating and takes
too much time. It seems we should be able to just try again from the same
screen.

3.) Perhaps the most frustrating glitch occurs after all of the race options
have been set and agreed upon by all racers. As in offline racing you have
to go through the practice, qualify, warmup, and race screens before hitting
the starting line. The glitch is that frequently one racer gets stuck in the
practice screen. This forces everyone to go back to setup options and start
the launch over while the racer that got stuck usually has to disconnect and
rejoin the race.

4.) If a race is completed and all racers are chatting in the setup options
screen and someone joins the race the host's computer will almost surely
lockup when the race is launched. It would be nice if the computer
recognized new racers joining and automatically increased the number of
racers when someone joins or decreased the number of racers when someone
leaves. At a minimum this should not cause the computer to lock up. When the
computer is rebooted the internet connection must be reestablished, nascar2
has to be restarted and if using kali it also must be launched. This is all
very time consuming, frustrating and *** the computer. The only way to
avoid the lockups now is for everyone to exit nascar2 and then reconnect
before launching the race.

5.) The last problem I would like to see fixed is computer lockups requiring
a reboot caused miscellaneous reasons. The program shell should fail safe
when connection problems occur due to poor latency. Perhaps most of these
connection problems stem from the fact that N2 multiplayer was designed for
LAN's and modem play. N3 needs to be robustly designed with the internet as
the primary focus, since few people can afford their own network and don't
have the luxury of having a boss who likes to race on the company network.
And it is too difficult to find racers using a modem then if you do chances
are you will need to dial long distance whereas on the internet you can
always find someone to race at most anytime of the day any day of the week.

You can do this in N2.  While in pits getting repairs hit the F9 key and then
enter to cancel repairs.  Usually there is a delay so it is good to do this
when you hear the pace car is in Turn 3.

--
Brian Tate
BTate80    on TEN
Assist LA for THOMAS ENTERPRISES HAWAII ACE LEAGUE  http://dithots.org

More like deadly, I gurantee there will be at least 1 big crash before the
race is over

one the lighter side:
Dammit I want to drive the blimp and helecopter too
It would make a nice crash replay, emagine landing the blimp on the back stretch
at Dega and just waiting for the leaders to come out of turn 2!!!!!   (LOL)

Josh Taylor (remove "NOSPAM" from email to reply)

Support For H3D Glasses!!! Oh YEAH!!

John Dubuque wrote
    I find multiplayer on kali to be many times more exhilirating than

First of all, if you are not already on the NROS, you are missing most, if
not all of the multiplayer that you can posess in Nascar2. It's a non-sence
to not be on it IMHO.  THere is multiple rate plans to help people if they
think it's too much expensive (well me it's 1 less 24-pack of beer each
month ;-)    ).

There is some, mostly friends (via modem) who are close living.  There isn't
many poeple on Kali and such, compared to the 4000 drivers on the NROS !

Since the new game engine is focused on multiplayer racing, you can be 100%
sure that all the upcoming Papyrus titles will have a great multiplayer
implementation.  Remember than GPL , in beta, was available in multiplayer
before any AI .

Well, I agree here. Papyrus devotes times, money and staff for them, but
also to make the most realistic possible driving simulator.  There is a
market. AFAIK, the sales for Nascar2 are over 500000.  And there is only
4000 drivers on the NROS. There is still a HUGE gap of people.

I would easily say that multiplayer will be greatly improved, and TCP/IP
right out of the box will help the product A LOT !!! I also would think that
the NROS will be advertised more than in Nascar2 (maybe not only a little
brochure).

This is already on the NROS. In any case, hop in the replay menu, and press
the ||> arrow.  You will be seing the track "live" (just look at GPL, there
is a live feed alternative to this).  Sure there is a little lag (some cars
dissapear), but it's a great thing to study racing line, and checking who
the darn hit you in the rear ;-)

Can't really say much (the NROS architecture is day and night compared to
the N2 multiplayer features).  Remember than now the game engine has an
awesome client/server engine, so be sure at 100% that the connections (time
and way to..) will be better.

On the NROS, the race options are decided by the race creator, so you like
it or you don't. I can't see 1 guy racing in arcade mode while the other in
simulator mode. You can set time limits for practice/warm-up on the NROS,
and IMHO I don't like getting already into the race without any form of
practice.

Hope I helped you a little (but please, hop on the NROS !!!!!)

Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

--"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

--"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

l8er
ronny

--
Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure,
kiddo?"

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Yes it is.  Twenty drivers head into turn one at Talladega and 12 come out of
turn two alive.  The trick is to, either take a provisional and start at the
back, or qualify into the first couple of rows and hope that the racers up
there with you are capable of getting through the first few laps without takin
each other out.  Most often the crashes occur in the middle of the pack.

Actually you can do this at TEN.  I don't know about Kali though.  If you get
crashed out but would like to watch the rest of the race you just hit the
"esc" key, back to the pre-race window, where you have the option of the
viewing the replay and you can watch the action in the replay mode as the race
is still going on.

Dave

http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/4340