rec.autos.simulators

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

Larr

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by Larr » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 06:06:27

Thanks :)

-Larry



> > Where does that fit in with everyone else?

> Hi Larry,

> that's exactly the question that N2002Rank is meant to answer
> (shameless plug ;-), that's why I asked RASCAR drivers to
> please register with N2002Rank a couple of days ago.

> Just put them on your buddy list and select "Pocono" from the
> track list, and you'll get an idea how fast everyone is going
> (you can also choose to view qualifying lap times only)

> cheers,

> uwe

> --
> Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
> PGP Fingerprint:  2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F  67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Larr

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by Larr » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 06:10:07

Those aren't while running the stock fast setup.  That's his own setup.

At least I hope so! If he's running 50 flat with the stock fast setup, not
only are we in trouble, but Richard Childress will be calling him first
thing in the morning :)

-Larry




> >I generally use the same braking/throttle points regardless of the
> >weather there.  My fastest laps at 40 degrees are 54.6-8 using the
> >fixed setup and at 70 degrees somewhere in the 54.9-55.1 range.  I
> >don't know what the temp/wind is like using realistic weather, but I'd
> >still aim for low 50's at the worst.

> Yow - I can't run those kinds of times.  I'm lucky to run a high 56...

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> Thanks to those of you who made a donation for *** cancer research.
The
> walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted.  Details on my
> webpage.

> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Larr

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by Larr » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 06:11:07

Not a complaint, just an observation.  My goodness :)

-Larry



> says...

> > BTW... The fast setup for this track needs serious work.

> It's pointless to complain about the setup.  What is a good setup for
> one person is a crappy one for someone else.  IMHO, if a given driver
> isn't comfortable with the setup, he can always sit the race out.  There
> is no shame in that.

> --
> =========================================================
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> RASCAR Roster
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

Larr

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by Larr » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 06:11:33

See my follow on message.

-Larry




> > Um, David, I finished THIRD at Dover, not ninth...

> 9th in *Practice*... 3rd in *Race*

> > Glad I looked :)

> Maybe look again?...   ;-)

> > -Larry



> > > Check out the times on the race results page from the first time we
ran
> > > Pocono. http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar/

> > > David G Fisher
> <snip>

Larr

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by Larr » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 06:11:52

:)

-Larry


> Maybe *I* should read more b4 posting?...  ;-/

> Brian





> > > Um, David, I finished THIRD at Dover, not ninth...

> > 9th in *Practice*... 3rd in *Race*

> > > Glad I looked :)

> > Maybe look again?...   ;-)

> > > -Larry



> > > > Check out the times on the race results page from the first time we
> ran
> > > > Pocono. http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar/

> > > > David G Fisher
> > <snip>

John Simmon

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by John Simmon » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:17:55

Done.  I might be able to get to the car pic updating sometime this
week, but no promises.  We're dog-sitting and just got a new puppy
ourselves, so my hands are kinda full most every day right now.





> >RASCAR Roster
> >  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar

> John -
> The server is now called RASCAR, and we're going to stick with 1 40% race a
> week for a while.  Could you update the website to reflect that, please?
> Thanks.

> Also, I need to talk to you about painting a car for me...<g>

> Eldred

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

David G Fishe

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by David G Fishe » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:20:05

I did a 55.3 just now after about 15 minutes of practice with the stock fast
setup. Haven't been there since the last Pocono RASCAR race. I'd guess
someone could do a flat 55 with this setup. Like I said before, everyone
should check out the RASCAR site and look at the times that were done there
in the last race to get an idea of what is competitive.

If someone wants the replay of the lap just e-mail me at

These cars really handle like boats unless on a track with high banking and
wide turns. 8-(

David G Fisher


> Those aren't while running the stock fast setup.  That's his own setup.

> At least I hope so! If he's running 50 flat with the stock fast setup, not
> only are we in trouble, but Richard Childress will be calling him first
> thing in the morning :)

> -Larry





> > >I generally use the same braking/throttle points regardless of the
> > >weather there.  My fastest laps at 40 degrees are 54.6-8 using the
> > >fixed setup and at 70 degrees somewhere in the 54.9-55.1 range.  I
> > >don't know what the temp/wind is like using realistic weather, but I'd
> > >still aim for low 50's at the worst.

> > Yow - I can't run those kinds of times.  I'm lucky to run a high 56...

> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> > Thanks to those of you who made a donation for *** cancer research.
> The
> > walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted.  Details on
my
> > webpage.

> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by Eldre » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:57:19



>Done.  I might be able to get to the car pic updating sometime this
>week, but no promises.  We're dog-sitting and just got a new puppy
>ourselves, so my hands are kinda full most every day right now.

*Literally*?<g>

Ok, thanks.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
Thanks to those of you who made a donation for *** cancer research.  The
walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted.  Details on my
webpage.

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by Eldre » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 11:57:19


writes:

>Those aren't while running the stock fast setup.  That's his own setup.

>At least I hope so! If he's running 50 flat with the stock fast setup, not
>only are we in trouble, but Richard Childress will be calling him first
>thing in the morning :)

>-Larry





>> >I generally use the same braking/throttle points regardless of the
>> >weather there.  My fastest laps at 40 degrees are 54.6-8 using the
>> >fixed setup and at 70 degrees somewhere in the 54.9-55.1 range.

Read his last lind again, Larry...<g>  He's still more than a second faster
than me with the SAME setup.
His "low 50's" with his own setup probably means a 53 or so...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
Thanks to those of you who made a donation for *** cancer research.  The
walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted.  Details on my
webpage.

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

jason moy

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by jason moy » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:35:23

My advice (and this is true at almost any track, I'm guessing papyrus
did this on purpose) is to start braking when the groove starts to
darken (at Pocono, this is always at the 2nd brake marker) and ease
off the brake until you're completely off when the darker groove which
marks the beginning of the turn starts.

Another good tip, is to just load up the driving lessons and jump
straight to the third section (i.e. the full-speed lap).  Look for
reference points for brake/gas.  Most of the time when you see the guy
in the driving lesson ease on the gas, you can actually hammer it by
that point.  For instance, at Pocono in turn 2 (the tunnel turn) the
guy doesn't really get on the gas until the multi-colored "NASCAR"
sign, but with good warm tires and a perfectly positioned car you can
usually literally go from 0 to 100% throttle well before that, even at
the red "NASCAR RACING" sign.

As a side note, since Pocono is my home/favorite track, I wish Papyrus
would model the bump in turn 2.  In real life it's incredibly easy to
lose the back end midway through the turn (which is why everyone says
it's so treacherous) because of the bump where the tunnel is.  They've
done a good job modelling bumps at other tracks (like the dip at the
wall out of 4 at Daytona and the tank-slappers low in turn 1 at
Atlanta and C***te)
so I'm hoping N2003 gets it right.  Or maybe it's there and I'm too
busy concentrating on my throttle point to notice?

Jason


> Thanks!

> That track plan is basically what the training session does as well.

> -Larry



> > Larry, you can use a calculator we have on one of our Oscar sites. It will
> > convert time or speed.

> > I also was having trouble getting much over 161.1's so I watched replays
>  of
> > a practice race we had 2night of the fastest guys on a fixed practice
> > server. They start braking at the 2nd marker in turns 1 & 3 & 5. For turns
>  1
> > & 3 stay along the wall and brake lightly to about to the next marker then
> > let off the brakes and drop the car into the banking, working it down by
>  the
> > apex then back on the gas at the apex. In turn 5 brake harder at the
>  marker
> > and try to keep the car in the dark pavement letting off the brake just
> > before you turn and coast to the apex then get back on the gas.

> > After about 15 laps of trying this I was able to get low 162's and in qual
> > setup 162.396 or 55.42 seconds which would have been enough to put me on
>  the
> > pole for the race I practiced with and reviewed.

> > Here is the calculator link: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > FatnSlo



> > > Rats, your listed in time.  I record by speed :)

> > > I guess I'll have to change that.

> > > -Larry



> > > > Check out the times on the race results page from the first time we
>  ran
> > > > Pocono. http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > > > David G Fisher



> > > > > Since this is one of the tougher tracks for a lot of people (myself
> > > > > included) :), I thought it might be useful to compare practice lap
>  times
>  so
> > > > > we know where we all stand in preparation for Saturday.

> > > > > Since it's a fixed setup, I don't see any secrets being won out of
>  this
>  )

> > > > > I'll start.  I know these ain' that hot, but it's me right now :)

> > > > > Every now and then, if I hit turn 3 right, I can get mid-160's.

> > > > > My average laps are 159.8 to 160.  Those are my most consistent laps
>  right
> > > > > now.

> > > > > Where does that fit in with everyone else?

> > > > > BTW... The fast setup for this track needs serious work.  There is
>  too
>  much
> > > > > camber in the right front, and it can cause the right front to lock
>  up
> > > > > braking into turn 3 because it's so flat.  If you do that, you're
>  screwed
> > > > > for that lap and may even have to come to a crawl to keep from
>  hitting
>  the
> > > > > turn 4 wall.  Anything more than 1/2 braking will light it up.
>  Don't
>  brake
> > > > > late here!

> > > > > Also, I personally feel that it needs the trackbar raised about 1/2"
>  on
>  the
> > > > > right side for turn exits.

> > > > > And, the fast setup doesn't use tape effectively.  There's not
>  enough
>  of
>  it.
> > > > > Engine runs too cool.

> > > > > The good thing about this setup is that it is fairly stable.

> > > > > If the markers were bigger and easier to see, I think I could do a
>  LOT
> > > > > better.

> > > > > -Larry

jason moy

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by jason moy » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 16:15:22

Here ya go larry.  A replay of a 55.325 at 70 0 wind and the fast
setup.

This is a few tenths slower than it is possible to do because:

1. I had a bad run out of 3.  Notice I'm only doing 155 when the
replay starts, while at the end of the lap I hit the same spot at over
160.
2. I was driving with one hand/one foot, sitting next to my
wheel/pedals.  I just put this together to show you a decent
braking/throttle/line example.
3. It's 3AM for christ's sake.  Give me a break. :)

On the other hand, I think it's pretty good, except for the bad
previous laps and a little bit too much tire scrub in 2 (no good at
braking with one foot, so I was a little hot going in).

http://firebrand11.stargate.net/pocono_eh.rpy

Notice that in all 3 turns I'm pretty much going from 0 throttle to
100% instantly and without sliding.  Can't do that at every track, but
it seems to work here with this setup.

Jason

David G Fishe

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by David G Fishe » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 17:34:36

The one I offered him farther up in the thread is much, much faster. A whole
10/1000 of a second faster.

Your slowness is going to cause wrecks on Saturday. :-)

I screwed up a bit too so that's why I said that it should be possible to do
a 55.0 lap with the fast setup.

David G Fisher



FatnSl

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by FatnSl » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:50:04

Well, if the training says the same then it works. On the FB, Pro Oscar
stock division server tonight I q'd 3rd with a161.990 (Pole was 163.251 with
19 drivers), I led the last 33 laps and won under yellow.  My fastest race
lap was 163.032 which is my best ever. Key to winning though was getting out
my calculator during yellows and figuring out what the average gallon usage
was and pitting early enough (70 lap race). I pitted earlier than most
leaders and my calculations were so close that I was able to win with about
1 gallon to go. Risky doing that though because later in the race there can
be more green flag racing due to people who have quit or been dumped and it
can change the average LPG under green/yellow. Watching replays of the race
I think many people try to use less brakes in 1 & 2 (meaning 3 turn track)
than I do which is faster, but riskier. Getting 163.9's at 70 deg would
require doing this I think but I am not good enough to even try and I would
surely spin it trying to do it during a race so my hat's off to the guys who
can do it consistently.

Steve Adams


> Thanks!

> That track plan is basically what the training session does as well.

> -Larry



> > Larry, you can use a calculator we have on one of our Oscar sites. It
will
> > convert time or speed.

> > I also was having trouble getting much over 161.1's so I watched replays
> of
> > a practice race we had 2night of the fastest guys on a fixed practice
> > server. They start braking at the 2nd marker in turns 1 & 3 & 5. For
turns
> 1
> > & 3 stay along the wall and brake lightly to about to the next marker
then
> > let off the brakes and drop the car into the banking, working it down by
> the
> > apex then back on the gas at the apex. In turn 5 brake harder at the
> marker
> > and try to keep the car in the dark pavement letting off the brake just
> > before you turn and coast to the apex then get back on the gas.

> > After about 15 laps of trying this I was able to get low 162's and in
qual
> > setup 162.396 or 55.42 seconds which would have been enough to put me on
> the
> > pole for the race I practiced with and reviewed.

> > Here is the calculator link: http://www.mdube.com/stock2.html

> > FatnSlo



> > > Rats, your listed in time.  I record by speed :)

> > > I guess I'll have to change that.

> > > -Larry



> > > > Check out the times on the race results page from the first time we
> ran
> > > > Pocono. http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar/

> > > > David G Fisher



> > > > > Since this is one of the tougher tracks for a lot of people
(myself
> > > > > included) :), I thought it might be useful to compare practice lap
> > times
> > > > so
> > > > > we know where we all stand in preparation for Saturday.

> > > > > Since it's a fixed setup, I don't see any secrets being won out of
> > this
> > > :)

> > > > > I'll start.  I know these ain' that hot, but it's me right now :)

> > > > > Every now and then, if I hit turn 3 right, I can get mid-160's.

> > > > > My average laps are 159.8 to 160.  Those are my most consistent
laps
> > > right
> > > > > now.

> > > > > Where does that fit in with everyone else?

> > > > > BTW... The fast setup for this track needs serious work.  There is
> too
> > > > much
> > > > > camber in the right front, and it can cause the right front to
lock
> up
> > > > > braking into turn 3 because it's so flat.  If you do that, you're
> > > screwed
> > > > > for that lap and may even have to come to a crawl to keep from
> hitting
> > > the
> > > > > turn 4 wall.  Anything more than 1/2 braking will light it up.
> Don't
> > > > brake
> > > > > late here!

> > > > > Also, I personally feel that it needs the trackbar raised about
1/2"
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > right side for turn exits.

> > > > > And, the fast setup doesn't use tape effectively.  There's not
> enough
> > of
> > > > it.
> > > > > Engine runs too cool.

> > > > > The good thing about this setup is that it is fairly stable.

> > > > > If the markers were bigger and easier to see, I think I could do a
> LOT
> > > > > better.

> > > > > -Larry

FatnSl

Saturday's Pocono Race - Lap Times

by FatnSl » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 19:32:12

Checking this months rankings in Oscar/Flashpoint the fastest Q I saw for
Pocono was 164.990 or 54.54. Makes me wonder how ridiculous the worlds
fastest q is for this track with fixed setup.

Steve Adams


> Well, if the training says the same then it works. On the FB, Pro Oscar
> stock division server tonight I q'd 3rd with a161.990 (Pole was 163.251
with
> 19 drivers), I led the last 33 laps and won under yellow.  My fastest race
> lap was 163.032 which is my best ever. Key to winning though was getting
out
> my calculator during yellows and figuring out what the average gallon
usage
> was and pitting early enough (70 lap race). I pitted earlier than most
> leaders and my calculations were so close that I was able to win with
about
> 1 gallon to go. Risky doing that though because later in the race there
can
> be more green flag racing due to people who have quit or been dumped and
it
> can change the average LPG under green/yellow. Watching replays of the
race
> I think many people try to use less brakes in 1 & 2 (meaning 3 turn track)
> than I do which is faster, but riskier. Getting 163.9's at 70 deg would
> require doing this I think but I am not good enough to even try and I
would
> surely spin it trying to do it during a race so my hat's off to the guys
who
> can do it consistently.

> Steve Adams



> > Thanks!

> > That track plan is basically what the training session does as well.

> > -Larry



> > > Larry, you can use a calculator we have on one of our Oscar sites. It
> will
> > > convert time or speed.

> > > I also was having trouble getting much over 161.1's so I watched
replays
> > of
> > > a practice race we had 2night of the fastest guys on a fixed practice
> > > server. They start braking at the 2nd marker in turns 1 & 3 & 5. For
> turns
> > 1
> > > & 3 stay along the wall and brake lightly to about to the next marker
> then
> > > let off the brakes and drop the car into the banking, working it down
by
> > the
> > > apex then back on the gas at the apex. In turn 5 brake harder at the
> > marker
> > > and try to keep the car in the dark pavement letting off the brake
just
> > > before you turn and coast to the apex then get back on the gas.

> > > After about 15 laps of trying this I was able to get low 162's and in
> qual
> > > setup 162.396 or 55.42 seconds which would have been enough to put me
on
> > the
> > > pole for the race I practiced with and reviewed.

> > > Here is the calculator link: http://www.mdube.com/stock2.html

> > > FatnSlo



> > > > Rats, your listed in time.  I record by speed :)

> > > > I guess I'll have to change that.

> > > > -Larry



> > > > > Check out the times on the race results page from the first time
we
> > ran
> > > > > Pocono. http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar/

> > > > > David G Fisher



> > > > > > Since this is one of the tougher tracks for a lot of people
> (myself
> > > > > > included) :), I thought it might be useful to compare practice
lap
> > > times
> > > > > so
> > > > > > we know where we all stand in preparation for Saturday.

> > > > > > Since it's a fixed setup, I don't see any secrets being won out
of
> > > this
> > > > :)

> > > > > > I'll start.  I know these ain' that hot, but it's me right now
:)

> > > > > > Every now and then, if I hit turn 3 right, I can get mid-160's.

> > > > > > My average laps are 159.8 to 160.  Those are my most consistent
> laps
> > > > right
> > > > > > now.

> > > > > > Where does that fit in with everyone else?

> > > > > > BTW... The fast setup for this track needs serious work.  There
is
> > too
> > > > > much
> > > > > > camber in the right front, and it can cause the right front to
> lock
> > up
> > > > > > braking into turn 3 because it's so flat.  If you do that,
you're
> > > > screwed
> > > > > > for that lap and may even have to come to a crawl to keep from
> > hitting
> > > > the
> > > > > > turn 4 wall.  Anything more than 1/2 braking will light it up.
> > Don't
> > > > > brake
> > > > > > late here!

> > > > > > Also, I personally feel that it needs the trackbar raised about
> 1/2"
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > right side for turn exits.

> > > > > > And, the fast setup doesn't use tape effectively.  There's not
> > enough
> > > of
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > Engine runs too cool.

> > > > > > The good thing about this setup is that it is fairly stable.

> > > > > > If the markers were bigger and easier to see, I think I could do
a
> > LOT
> > > > > > better.

> > > > > > -Larry


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