rec.autos.simulators

by **Martin D. Pa** » Fri, 21 Jul 2000 04:00:00

mangled uncounted electrons thus:

>> Err, no. But I talked to a friend of my flatmate yeterday who works at
>> Ram&Rom and I asked him if he will have GP3 next friday. The answer :
>> Haven't heard anything...

>Same here, just got off the phone with BJ...

>"GP3 ?, I think this has been delayed to some time this fall..."

>"Uhm, no, I just saw the promo boxes when I was on vacation in th UK"

>"Oh, ok then, then it must be in any day now...."

>Yeah, well, thx a bunch

<EG> You have that sort of place in your part of Europe too, huh?

Martin D. Pay
Thinks, PC World... ^_^

by **David G Fishe** » Sat, 22 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I think HG is a great site.

David G Fisher

> > >Indeed, people who think High Gear polls are a reference in simracing
> PLAY
> > >sims. People who turn to RAS for info DRIVE sims.

> > Jan, that is pretty harsh, if you ask me.

> It's harsh, but true. We are talking about a site who puts (very rare)
GPL
> news in between Dukes of Hazards preview and Rally Masters (stretching the
> truth but you see my point). Oh remember it's the site who had the idiocy
> of having a poll on the relevance of a Usenet NG. But hey, many people
have
> egos here and I don't hide the fact. We are elitists. We want the most
> realistic simulators possible, and any attempt to not make it so is
rubbish
> to our eyes.

> Elitists we are. GPL is elitist. Will GP3 be elitist?

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.WeRace.net
> -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Jan Verschuere** » Sat, 22 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Too blatant Dave... not gonna work.

Jan.
=---

by **Andre Warrin** » Sat, 22 Jul 2000 04:00:00

David, what the hell?!?
We agree on something!
What's next? We're becoming friends?

Andre

by **ymenar** » Sat, 22 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Of course, it's a great site. I won't hide the fact ;)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Loosa** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

great observation, I totally agree.

by **Jan Verschuere** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I view sims in terms of what I find important. As long as you're aware of
that you can still get usefull info from my posts. Deal with it, as I'm not
about to change my modus operandi.

Besides, if you want to critisize me, be a little more creative than adding
a me too comment to someone else's post.

Jan.
=---

by **Jan Verschuere** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Why don't you all hug eachoter for comfort too... sheeesh!!

The great evil Jan makes you feel bad, does he?

Jan. ;-)
=---

rrevved wrote...

> >><snip>
> >great observation, I totally agree.

> Me too. Perfection in physics is a very important part of the equation,
> but the factors that he mentioned are important as well in a racing sim.

> The name of this newsgroup is rec.autos.simulators. I wish it was
> named rec.autos.racing-simulators.

by **Jan Verschuere** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Just a flippant reply rrevved, maybe too farfetched. Don't worry about it
;-)

I got the impression from Jo's message he found my "physics are the key to a
racing sim" viewpoint intimidating... you both bascally agreed with his post
(on another level, but that's never stopped me from excercising my warped
sense of hunour before), so I suggested you seek solace with eachother for
the mental scars I inflicted on you.

Missed the target by a mile though... bad joke, I apologise.

Jan./I have always BEEN an annoying individual BTW. <g>
=---

by **Jan Verschuere** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Would have been funnier if you'd wised up to the intention earlier... I love
having mock fights on newsgroups. ;-)

Jan.
=---

by **Jo Helse** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>>Why don't you all hug eachoter for comfort too... sheeesh!!

>Huh?

>>The great evil Jan makes you feel bad, does he?

>>Jan. ;-)

>Jan, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Loosay and I
>-certainly- weren't talking about you. We were talking about
>physics vs. other factors in racing sims.

>You have turned into quite an annoying individual, recently, IMO.

No he hasn't. I've started to love him more and more :-)

JoH

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------

by **Peter Ive** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:23:07 +0200, "Jan Verschueren"

>>Olav K. Malmin wrote...

>>> I'm probably missing the argument here, but what the heck...

>>Not at all Olav, you hit the nail right on the head in fact. All the games
>>you mentioned (and which David mentions in another part of the thread) are
>>very good, enjoyable racing racing games. They did not, however, advance
>the
>>genre (much), which ultimately detracts from their long term appeal. Either
>>GPL was way ahead of it's time (not so, IMO) or, like I said, having the
>>technically most advanced game doesn't shift enough copies (it's not an
>>argument in a sale), so no-one's very keen on risking a dollop of money on
>>developing one.

>>Jan.

>Jan, what you keep failing to see is that there is more involved than
>the physics alone. You always concentrate on the *driving*sim. But a
>*racing*sim needs AI, influence of weather, atmosphere etc.. too. Even
>with the limited info that we have now, it looks like GP3 will make
>guaranteed progress in those departments. But no, the slightest doubt
>about the smallest issue of the drivingmodel seems enough for you to
>discard those aspects as unimportant details. That goes just a
>*little* bit too far for my taste...

Yes, but that is the most important part. I don't know about others,
but I spend 99% of my time on any driving sim actually either driving
the thing (racing or testing) or in the garage trying to get a decent
setup. All the other extras are an improvement without a doubt, but in
the end how it feels when driving is still the most essential component.
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

by **Jo Hels** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:53:25 +0100, Peter Ives

>>Jan, what you keep failing to see is that there is more involved than
>>the physics alone. You always concentrate on the *driving*sim. But a
>>*racing*sim needs AI, influence of weather, atmosphere etc.. too. Even
>>with the limited info that we have now, it looks like GP3 will make
>>guaranteed progress in those departments. But no, the slightest doubt
>>about the smallest issue of the drivingmodel seems enough for you to
>>discard those aspects as unimportant details. That goes just a
>>*little* bit too far for my taste...

>Yes, but that is the most important part. I don't know about others,
>but I spend 99% of my time on any driving sim actually either driving
>the thing (racing or testing) or in the garage trying to get a decent
>setup. All the other extras are an improvement without a doubt, but in
>the end how it feels when driving is still the most essential component.
>--
>Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)

GP3 is a great example of the issue at hand. The *** r.a.s. crowd
simply makes the totally wrong assumption that Geoff Crammond sees
THEM as the target crowd. I'm pretty sure that this is not the case.
99% of the sim-buying public is perfectly happy with the carbehaviour
in GP2. So GC doesn't think it needs massive improvement over GP2
(like GP2 was over F1GP) and concentrates on other issues.

Therefore, GP3 will deliver just about what the 99% needs to reach
their suspension of disbelief.

JoH

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

From the two page GP3 advert in the August issue of PC Zone.

<quote>
Coming 28th July,

Weather Effects, Force Feedback,
Unprecedented Realism.

Pre-order your copy now!
</quote>

If what you say is true, and MPS-Hasbro doesn't want to sucker the
***** crowd into buying this game, what's the "unprecedented realism"
comment doing in there?

Add to that the (mis)use of the word "simulation" by both MPS-Hasbro
marketing and the *** press and it becomes *our business*. -If only to
point out the standards for what is to be designated a "simulation" were
significantly raised in the 4 years since GP2.

And don't start the "atmosphere is part of the simulation"-argument again.
Simulation is a technical/mechanical term as far as I'm concerned and
therefore only applicable to the mechanics/physics of a game. -What good is
being able to agonise over tyre choice when the physics are so damn
forgiving you can easily***all over the AI regardless of what you mount
on the rims? (-gross generalisation, I know, but never let the facts get in
the way of a good rant, right? ;-)))

Granted, I made the mistake of believing Geoff was in the business of making
racing simulations. To find he's actually in the business of making racing
games hurt, a lot!!

Jan.
=---

by **N..** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

thus spoke:

I bet the majority of the buyers will never have even seen GP2.
Therefore, they are not even qualified to say what is wrong with GP3
and will be ignorant to it's shortcomings. They will buy it just
because it has pretty F1 cars on the box.
--
Nos

rec.autos.simulators

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