rec.autos.simulators

> If I follow your logic here...then apply it to real racing I get the
> following conclusion(s):

> A.  Goodies Dash,  and Busch drivers all hate Winston Cup drivers and
> there's a tremendous amount of discontent and hurt feelings over the fact
> that the WC drivers are considered the best....that's why they are in the
WC
> series.

> B.  F2000 drivers hate the F1 drivers....ditto above.

> C.  Toyota Atlantic drivers hate the CART drivers....ditto above.

> D.  Goodies Dash, Busch, F2000 and Toyota Atlantic drivers can not learn
> anything or improve their skills, because they don't race with the WC, F1
or
> CART drivers in the same race.

> John...since the "novice" races would be open to all entries....wouldn't
> those serve as something of a "qualifying" race as you suggested anyway?
> That was my point, several times mentioned.  I think I suggested that
> "additions to the invite list" would come from the drivers who were doing
> well in the "novice/open" races and deserved a chance to run with the more
> experienced drivers....didn't I?  I thought I did.

> TP

> > Well, I think the invite-only method that you laid out would pretty much
> > go against what we're trying to do, or at least *my* perception of what
> > we're trying to do.

> > I think it would cause a lot of hard feelings and general hate and
> > discontent if people thought they were considered less than capable of
> > running with the "pros".  Besides, how are they expected to get better
> > at this if they don't have better drivers to race against.

> > I personally wish I were as fast as Mike Grandy, but I just don't see
> > how he pushes the <fast> setup like he does.  I simply try to drive as
> > fast and as hard as I think I can and try not to wreck.  That's really
> > all I ask of anyone that's sharing the same chunk of asphalt with me.

> > I think maybe we should think about holding a qualifying race for new
> > guys at each track type to see how they do against current Rascarians
> > before we add them to the invite list.  That way, we could determine for
> > ourselfs if we want them racing with us.

> > --
> > =========================================================
> > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> >   http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> >   http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> >   http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > RASCAR Roster
> >   http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
> >   http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> > =========================================================

> > > Here's what I think would make the RASCAR racing on Saturday "fun" and
> > > something I would spend 2 or 3 hours doing on a Saturday.  This is my
> own
> > > opinion of "fun" and if shared by others....great.  If not....that's
> great
> > > too.

> > > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing Fun**

> ** snip **

> What RASCAR really needs to do "if" it's going to get selective, is to
> create it's own forum and return rec.autos to what it used to be before it
> started getting over-run with this type of selective league format that
> should not be taking up as much space on a public news group as what it
> does.
> Ras used to be great for informative and recreational posting and problem
> finding, but all it is at the moment is a waste of bandspace for anyone
> that is not into the RASCAR scene.

> Cheers,
> Ron Ayton
> Australia

> <fingers pointed in ears>

> ;)

> > Ron,

> > I get oh so tired of many things on RAS.  But I don't ask people to
leave
> > because of it.  RAS is for Simracers of all kinds.  The idea of
secluding
> > RASCAR on RAS is absurd, how about all the WSC thread people have to
> leave
> > or GPL threads etc.   Where would it stop?  Who would police it?
> (besides
> > Frank).  If ya don't want to read it then don't, simple stuff..

> > Mitch

> Hi Mitch, hope you have been keeping well..
> I agree that ras is for all types of sim racing and all types of
> discussions about simming on a computer.
> But RASCAR is about a league (call it what you like, it's still a league)
> using ras for it's own discussions and formats, which is not really the
> right thing to do.
> If the threads in the WSC or GPL debates etc etc  were to do with specific
> league happenings, then i would feel the same way about them too, but no
> other leagues use ras for their own personal league business..
> Ras is for discusssions of all Simmers, regardless of simming preferences
> and  RASCAR is simply a league based on a select few of the individuals
> that inhabit ras.
> I have nothing against RASCAR or NASCAR, as you are well aware, having
> raced against you on numerous occasions in N(add number here) sims for
> years now, but RASCAR should form it's own forum for its discussions and
> allow ras to be used for  what it was designed to be used for.

> Cheers,
> Ron

> > Ron,

> > I get oh so tired of many things on RAS.  But I don't ask people to
leave
> > because of it.  RAS is for Simracers of all kinds.  The idea of
secluding
> > RASCAR on RAS is absurd, how about all the WSC thread people have to
> leave
> > or GPL threads etc.   Where would it stop?  Who would police it?
> (besides
> > Frank).  If ya don't want to read it then don't, simple stuff..

> > Mitch

> Hi Mitch, hope you have been keeping well..
> I agree that ras is for all types of sim racing and all types of
> discussions about simming on a computer.
> But RASCAR is about a league (call it what you like, it's still a league)
> using ras for it's own discussions and formats, which is not really the
> right thing to do.
> If the threads in the WSC or GPL debates etc etc  were to do with specific
> league happenings, then i would feel the same way about them too, but no
> other leagues use ras for their own personal league business..
> Ras is for discusssions of all Simmers, regardless of simming preferences
> and  RASCAR is simply a league based on a select few of the individuals
> that inhabit ras.
> I have nothing against RASCAR or NASCAR, as you are well aware, having
> raced against you on numerous occasions in N(add number here) sims for
> years now, but RASCAR should form it's own forum for its discussions and
> allow ras to be used for  what it was designed to be used for.

> Cheers,
> Ron

> If there is going to be one, then Tom's setup would be the way to go.

> As I've said before, I'm right in line with you. A small crowd in a few
> threads managed to create a problem where it didn't really exist.

> David G Fisher

> "Larry" <n...@none.com> wrote in message
> news:lVC59.38190$Pb.1049994@news2.east.cox.net...
> > Ok, I'll get to the point.

> > Until three weeks ago, RASCAR was a great place to race and was a great
> > time.  It still is, really.

> > Then, two events (including this one) have come about to hose up the
whole
> > thing.

> > Here's what I think we should do.  It's a simple two-step plan:

> > 1.  Remember the way everything was prior to the last race Eldred
hosted.
> > 2.  Return all thinking and attitudes to that era.

> > Then we can go racing and having fun again.

> > In short.  We don't need no new shit.

> > -Larry

> > "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > news:yoB59.65106$UU1.11865@sccrnsc03...
> > > Okay...let's separate out all the crap and get to the point.

> > > Here's what I think would make the RASCAR racing on Saturday "fun" and
> > > something I would spend 2 or 3 hours doing on a Saturday.  This is my
> own
> > > opinion of "fun" and if shared by others....great.  If not....that's
> great
> > > too.

> > > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing Fun**

> > > 1.  No points tabulation from race to race.
> > > [That way I don't have to obligate that time slot to every weekend.
If
> > that
> > > were the case, then it would the same burden as a league and I don't
run
> > in
> > > leagues just for that reason.....I can't fix my schedule in advance to
> be
> > > certain of not missing a substantial number of league races.  RASCAR
> does
> > > this already.]

> > > 2.  Have a place to go find some good "door to door" racing...at least
> > once
> > > a week, with/against people I've known for a long time.
> > > [I could get that in a league race, but I've already stated my
schedule
> > > doesn't allow it.  So, this RASCAR event on Saturday could always be
run
> > > when I wanted to get that fix.]

> > > 3.  Getting to race with some experienced drivers on tracks that I
have
> > less
> > > experience on.
> > > [This would motivate me to practice and learn some tracks where my
> > > experience is low.  And, I could benefit from seeing first hand, how
> some
> > of
> > > the more experienced drivers run the track and therefore better pin
down
> > my
> > > weaknesses.]

> > > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing NOT Fun**

> > > 1.  Being forced to race with novice drivers.
> > > [Per number 2 above, having novice drivers interfere with the racing.
> > > Racing against novices is not always fun....its also not "racing" for
an
> > > experienced driver since he has no feelings of accomplishment in
winning
> > or
> > > beating a novice driver.  In fact, its called "teaching".....not
> racing.]

> > > **What Could Be Added To The RASCAR Format To Accomplish The Fun (and
> > avoid
> > > the not fun)?**

> > > 1.  Hold two RASCAR races on Saturday, back to back (not at the same
> > > time -:).....).

> > > 2.  Make one of them a "pro or experienced-drivers-only" race....the
> other
> > a
> > > "novice" or open race (as the RASCAR races are now).

> > > 3.  Make the "pro" race an invitation only event.
> > > [On the driver registration area at RSC, allow a driver to make an
entry
> > > that says he wants to be invited to the "pro" races, and thus require
> > > his/her email address to be included in the driver registration.  On
> > > Wednesday or Thursday of each week there is to be a RASCAR race,
someone
> > who
> > > is appointed in advance to do this function, decides who will be
> "invited"
> > > to the pro race on Saturday, makes a 'post' on r.a.s. with a list of
the
> > > names, and sends (via private email) the unique PW for the race that
> > coming
> > > weekend.  The "drivers" invited can RSVP for the race that weekend, by
> > > virtue of making a post in the string of the invite post.  As the
> weekend
> > > approaches, additional drives can be invited if there is not a full
> field
> > of
> > > RSVP's developing for that coming race.  The position of making up the
> > > weekly "pro race" invite list can be totally volunteer....with say a
> > > requirement that you do it for say two months....then the next person
> > takes
> > > over the job for only two months...and so on.  Its not a huge "time
> > > consuming" thing to do once a week...for about 8 times.

> > > 4.  Make the "novice" race an open invitation race (open to all who
> visit
> > > r.a.s. and know the "standing pw" for the novice race).

> > > 5.  Make the "novice" race open to any "experienced driver" who wants
to
> > run
> > > in it as well....or maybe many times some of the drivers invited to
the
> > > "pro" race can't make it because of their schedule.......but can make
> the
> > > "novice" race time slot.  Encourage the experienced drivers to run in
> the
> > > "novice" race as often as they can.....to help the novice drivers gain
> > > experience.  This also allows the "experienced" drivers a chance to
view
> > and
> > > observe the novice drivers, too......and see first hand who is running
> > > well....and maybe deserving of a "provisional invitation" to the pro
> race.
> > > No?

> > > There are advantages and disadvantages to the system described above
(as
> I
> > > see it...others may exist too):

> > > **Advantages**

> > > 1.  Novice drivers are not interfering with the experienced drivers
race
> > > (and fun).
> > > 2.  Experienced drivers can choose which race they want to run
> > > in.....choosing the novice race when they are in the mood to
> teach....the
> > > pro race when they are in the mood to try to kick some butt of one of
or
> > > more of their r.a.s. buddies!  They can also choose the novice race if
> > they
> > > are not very experienced at the track being run that weekend.
> > > 3.  Novice drivers have a more relaxed racing atmosphere since they
are
> > not
> > > under pressure to avoid screwing up somebody's race with their rookie
> > > mistakes.  This makes for a much better learning environment as well,
> > IMHO.
> > > You'd probably get many more novice drivers to participate....and that
> > would
> > > be good for sim racing.
> > > 4.  Everyone who visits r.a.s. can still get to race each
> > other......you've
> > > just got the added opportunity/benefit to choose which way you want to
> do
> > > it.
> > > 5.  If someone on the "pro" race invite list is not deserving to
remain
> on
> > > that list because of their on-track actual performance, their name can
> > > quietly be dropped from the list and no big public deal is made of it.
> > > 6.  A quasi-award system is in place, to encourage novice drivers to
> > > practice and get better.  When I was a novice driver, I would have
> thought
> > > it was cool to do well enough to ***earn*** and invitation to the pro
> > race!
> > > Way cool....as a matter of fact.
> > > 7.  This system is flexible enough by its "open architecture" that as
> new
> > > people visiting r.a.s., they can easily participate by simply
> registering
> > > their info and car at the RASCAR site....and indicating if they want a
> pro
> > > race invite by additionally giving their email address.

> > > **Disadvantages**

> > > 1.  It would require slightly more "administration" of the RASCAR race
> on
> > > Saturday....but not much more, for the huge benefit it would give
> (IMHO).
> > > In also MHO, if a minimum amount of administration isn't forthcoming
> > > (handling the driver registration and car sets in a timely manner,
> writing
> > > the pro race invite list weekly, and operating the race server on
> > > Saturday)....then this RASCAR thing will die off anyway.  That would
be
> a
> > > shame.

> > > So, what do you guys think?  Are there more "advantages" you can think
> of?
> > > Are there more "disadvantages?"  What's your vote?  Are your for this
or
> > > against it?  Let's go with the consensus....and move on.

> > > TP