Until three weeks ago, RASCAR was a great place to race and was a great
time. It still is, really.
Then, two events (including this one) have come about to hose up the whole
thing.
Here's what I think we should do. It's a simple two-step plan:
1. Remember the way everything was prior to the last race Eldred hosted.
2. Return all thinking and attitudes to that era.
Then we can go racing and having fun again.
In short. We don't need no new shit.
-Larry
-Larry
> It's already fun. It should stay the same. Why do you want things to
> change? Another time, RASCAR is not made for you, as in, it won't be
> modified only to please you and what kind of "fun" you personally want.
You
> have to accept some compromise in life, you know...
> I mean there is NOTHING wrong with RASCAR at this moment, what's the
> fuss!!!! You basically did ONE race, one single race and you start
writing
> like you know the cure to all of it's (non-existing) problems.
The original intent of RASCAR isn't it :) If someone doesn't want to
run......don't. I don't recall anyone begging anyone else to join a RASCAR
race.
Dan
I wouldn't have had to run in even one race. Do a Google search on
"RASCAR".....look at the number of posts about too many yellows, drivers not
knowing the rules, etc, etc. Those are the same complaints I've read for
years....about pickup racing. And, I didn't run in yesterday's race with
any other expectations than it would be like running a pickup race. And,
that's exactly what it was, in my opinion. No big deal. If there's not
going to be a way of separating the experienced drivers from the
inexperienced drivers (which I clearly do not understand why many of you
think that is something bad....like a "black mark" or something
ridiculous.....since all of racing does this everywhere else).....then I
said I didn't want to spend my Saturday (middle of the day hours) doing
that. Others may want to....that's fine with me. Why am I then made out
like the "bad guy" here? I don't understand some of your guy's logic I
guess?
TP
> John
> > > Here's what I think would make the RASCAR racing on Saturday "fun"
> > It's already fun. It should stay the same. Why do you want things to
> > change? Another time, RASCAR is not made for you, as in, it won't be
> > modified only to please you and what kind of "fun" you personally want.
> You
> > have to accept some compromise in life, you know...
> > I mean there is NOTHING wrong with RASCAR at this moment, what's the
> > fuss!!!! You basically did ONE race, one single race and you start
> writing
> > like you know the cure to all of it's (non-existing) problems.
> > > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing NOT Fun**
> > > 1. Being forced to race with novice drivers.
> > > [Per number 2 above, having novice drivers interfere with the racing.
> > > Racing against novices is not always fun....its also not "racing" for
an
> > > experienced driver since he has no feelings of accomplishment in
winning
> > or
> > > beating a novice driver. In fact, its called "teaching".....not
> racing.]
> > Sorry but that's a fact of life.
> > > So, what do you guys think?
> > I think that you are wasting your "so precious" time by writing all
these
> > things. RASCAR doesn't need to change at all.
> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> > Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Big difference.
The 'rules' discussion that occured a few weeks ago was an anomoly that
hopefully will not repeat. We are not the better for it, and I think that
is understood now.
-Larry
> I wouldn't have had to run in even one race. Do a Google search on
> "RASCAR".....look at the number of posts about too many yellows, drivers
not
> knowing the rules, etc, etc. Those are the same complaints I've read for
> years....about pickup racing. And, I didn't run in yesterday's race with
> any other expectations than it would be like running a pickup race. And,
> that's exactly what it was, in my opinion. No big deal. If there's not
> going to be a way of separating the experienced drivers from the
> inexperienced drivers (which I clearly do not understand why many of you
> think that is something bad....like a "black mark" or something
> ridiculous.....since all of racing does this everywhere else).....then I
> said I didn't want to spend my Saturday (middle of the day hours) doing
> that. Others may want to....that's fine with me. Why am I then made out
> like the "bad guy" here? I don't understand some of your guy's logic I
> guess?
> TP
> > Bit curious about that myself; one race, etc.
> > John
> > > > Here's what I think would make the RASCAR racing on Saturday "fun"
> > > It's already fun. It should stay the same. Why do you want things to
> > > change? Another time, RASCAR is not made for you, as in, it won't be
> > > modified only to please you and what kind of "fun" you personally
want.
> > You
> > > have to accept some compromise in life, you know...
> > > I mean there is NOTHING wrong with RASCAR at this moment, what's the
> > > fuss!!!! You basically did ONE race, one single race and you start
> > writing
> > > like you know the cure to all of it's (non-existing) problems.
> > > > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing NOT Fun**
> > > > 1. Being forced to race with novice drivers.
> > > > [Per number 2 above, having novice drivers interfere with the
racing.
> > > > Racing against novices is not always fun....its also not "racing"
for
> an
> > > > experienced driver since he has no feelings of accomplishment in
> winning
> > > or
> > > > beating a novice driver. In fact, its called "teaching".....not
> > racing.]
> > > Sorry but that's a fact of life.
> > > > So, what do you guys think?
> > > I think that you are wasting your "so precious" time by writing all
> these
> > > things. RASCAR doesn't need to change at all.
> > > --
> > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...
I made a suggestion that seemed like it would improve the RASCAR races from
my standpoint only. If that is something that others think would do the
same for them, then they'll vote "yes"....if not, they'll vote "no." End of
issue with me. I stated the conditions in which I would be willing to spend
my Saturday's running in RASCAR races. If those conditions don't exist, I
won't race........what's wrong with that. I'm not thinking anyone is going
to care one way or the other if I don't join the RASCAR races. Are you of
the (wrong) opinion that my stating I wouldn't run in pickup style races as
being some sort of a penalty I'm imposing on you and others? Get realistic,
Francois and stop acting like a cry baby....or pouting brat.
TP
PS: I didn't even need to run "one" race to know that there's been many
posts about "too many yellows" and drivers not knowing the rules. Do a
"Google" search and its obvious. Those are the same complaints I've seen
about pickup races for 5 years....and so have you, Frances. Do you have the
balls to deny that even?
PSS: Just how many RASCAR races have you run in, Frances? Could you share
that tad of info with us, please?
> It's already fun. It should stay the same. Why do you want things to
> change? Another time, RASCAR is not made for you, as in, it won't be
> modified only to please you and what kind of "fun" you personally want.
You
> have to accept some compromise in life, you know...
> I mean there is NOTHING wrong with RASCAR at this moment, what's the
> fuss!!!! You basically did ONE race, one single race and you start
writing
> like you know the cure to all of it's (non-existing) problems.
> > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing NOT Fun**
> > 1. Being forced to race with novice drivers.
> > [Per number 2 above, having novice drivers interfere with the racing.
> > Racing against novices is not always fun....its also not "racing" for an
> > experienced driver since he has no feelings of accomplishment in winning
> or
> > beating a novice driver. In fact, its called "teaching".....not
racing.]
> Sorry but that's a fact of life.
> > So, what do you guys think?
> I think that you are wasting your "so precious" time by writing all these
> things. RASCAR doesn't need to change at all.
> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
If there is going to be one, then Tom's setup would be the way to go.
As I've said before, I'm right in line with you. A small crowd in a few
threads managed to create a problem where it didn't really exist.
David G Fisher
> Until three weeks ago, RASCAR was a great place to race and was a great
> time. It still is, really.
> Then, two events (including this one) have come about to hose up the whole
> thing.
> Here's what I think we should do. It's a simple two-step plan:
> 1. Remember the way everything was prior to the last race Eldred hosted.
> 2. Return all thinking and attitudes to that era.
> Then we can go racing and having fun again.
> In short. We don't need no new shit.
> -Larry
> "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:yoB59.65106$UU1.11865@sccrnsc03...
> > Okay...let's separate out all the crap and get to the point.
> > Here's what I think would make the RASCAR racing on Saturday "fun" and
> > something I would spend 2 or 3 hours doing on a Saturday. This is my
own
> > opinion of "fun" and if shared by others....great. If not....that's
great
> > too.
> > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing Fun**
> > 1. No points tabulation from race to race.
> > [That way I don't have to obligate that time slot to every weekend. If
> that
> > were the case, then it would the same burden as a league and I don't run
> in
> > leagues just for that reason.....I can't fix my schedule in advance to
be
> > certain of not missing a substantial number of league races. RASCAR
does
> > this already.]
> > 2. Have a place to go find some good "door to door" racing...at least
> once
> > a week, with/against people I've known for a long time.
> > [I could get that in a league race, but I've already stated my schedule
> > doesn't allow it. So, this RASCAR event on Saturday could always be run
> > when I wanted to get that fix.]
> > 3. Getting to race with some experienced drivers on tracks that I have
> less
> > experience on.
> > [This would motivate me to practice and learn some tracks where my
> > experience is low. And, I could benefit from seeing first hand, how
some
> of
> > the more experienced drivers run the track and therefore better pin down
> my
> > weaknesses.]
> > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing NOT Fun**
> > 1. Being forced to race with novice drivers.
> > [Per number 2 above, having novice drivers interfere with the racing.
> > Racing against novices is not always fun....its also not "racing" for an
> > experienced driver since he has no feelings of accomplishment in winning
> or
> > beating a novice driver. In fact, its called "teaching".....not
racing.]
> > **What Could Be Added To The RASCAR Format To Accomplish The Fun (and
> avoid
> > the not fun)?**
> > 1. Hold two RASCAR races on Saturday, back to back (not at the same
> > time -:).....).
> > 2. Make one of them a "pro or experienced-drivers-only" race....the
other
> a
> > "novice" or open race (as the RASCAR races are now).
> > 3. Make the "pro" race an invitation only event.
> > [On the driver registration area at RSC, allow a driver to make an entry
> > that says he wants to be invited to the "pro" races, and thus require
> > his/her email address to be included in the driver registration. On
> > Wednesday or Thursday of each week there is to be a RASCAR race, someone
> who
> > is appointed in advance to do this function, decides who will be
"invited"
> > to the pro race on Saturday, makes a 'post' on r.a.s. with a list of the
> > names, and sends (via private email) the unique PW for the race that
> coming
> > weekend. The "drivers" invited can RSVP for the race that weekend, by
> > virtue of making a post in the string of the invite post. As the
weekend
> > approaches, additional drives can be invited if there is not a full
field
> of
> > RSVP's developing for that coming race. The position of making up the
> > weekly "pro race" invite list can be totally volunteer....with say a
> > requirement that you do it for say two months....then the next person
> takes
> > over the job for only two months...and so on. Its not a huge "time
> > consuming" thing to do once a week...for about 8 times.
> > 4. Make the "novice" race an open invitation race (open to all who
visit
> > r.a.s. and know the "standing pw" for the novice race).
> > 5. Make the "novice" race open to any "experienced driver" who wants to
> run
> > in it as well....or maybe many times some of the drivers invited to the
> > "pro" race can't make it because of their schedule.......but can make
the
> > "novice" race time slot. Encourage the experienced drivers to run in
the
> > "novice" race as often as they can.....to help the novice drivers gain
> > experience. This also allows the "experienced" drivers a chance to view
> and
> > observe the novice drivers, too......and see first hand who is running
> > well....and maybe deserving of a "provisional invitation" to the pro
race.
> > No?
> > There are advantages and disadvantages to the system described above (as
I
> > see it...others may exist too):
> > **Advantages**
> > 1. Novice drivers are not interfering with the experienced drivers race
> > (and fun).
> > 2. Experienced drivers can choose which race they want to run
> > in.....choosing the novice race when they are in the mood to
teach....the
> > pro race when they are in the mood to try to kick some butt of one of or
> > more of their r.a.s. buddies! They can also choose the novice race if
> they
> > are not very experienced at the track being run that weekend.
> > 3. Novice drivers have a more relaxed racing atmosphere since they are
> not
> > under pressure to avoid screwing up somebody's race with their rookie
> > mistakes. This makes for a much better learning environment as well,
> IMHO.
> > You'd probably get many more novice drivers to participate....and that
> would
> > be good for sim racing.
> > 4. Everyone who visits r.a.s. can still get to race each
> other......you've
> > just got the added opportunity/benefit to choose which way you want to
do
> > it.
> > 5. If someone on the "pro" race invite list is not deserving to remain
on
> > that list because of their on-track actual performance, their name can
> > quietly be dropped from the list and no big public deal is made of it.
> > 6. A quasi-award system is in place, to encourage novice drivers to
> > practice and get better. When I was a novice driver, I would have
thought
> > it was cool to do well enough to ***earn*** and invitation to the pro
> race!
> > Way cool....as a matter of fact.
> > 7. This system is flexible enough by its "open architecture" that as
new
> > people visiting r.a.s., they can easily participate by simply
registering
> > their info and car at the RASCAR site....and indicating if they want a
pro
> > race invite by additionally giving their email address.
> > **Disadvantages**
> > 1. It would require slightly more "administration" of the RASCAR race
on
> > Saturday....but not much more, for the huge benefit it would give
(IMHO).
> > In also MHO, if a minimum amount of administration isn't forthcoming
> > (handling the driver registration and car sets in a timely manner,
writing
> > the pro race invite list weekly, and operating the race server on
> > Saturday)....then this RASCAR thing will die off anyway. That would be
a
> > shame.
> > So, what do you guys think? Are there more "advantages" you can think
of?
> > Are there more "disadvantages?" What's your vote? Are your for this or
> > against it? Let's go with the consensus....and move on.
> > TP
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
More then you.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
David Cook
> David G Fisher
> > Why don't you guys start a thread for your vote instead of each one of you
> with
> > your own thread and make sure you put RASCAR in the subject okay? Thanks.
If I follow your logic here...then apply it to real racing I get the
following conclusion(s):
A. Goodies Dash, and Busch drivers all hate Winston Cup drivers and
there's a tremendous amount of discontent and hurt feelings over the fact
that the WC drivers are considered the best....that's why they are in the WC
series.
B. F2000 drivers hate the F1 drivers....ditto above.
C. Toyota Atlantic drivers hate the CART drivers....ditto above.
D. Goodies Dash, Busch, F2000 and Toyota Atlantic drivers can not learn
anything or improve their skills, because they don't race with the WC, F1 or
CART drivers in the same race.
John...since the "novice" races would be open to all entries....wouldn't
those serve as something of a "qualifying" race as you suggested anyway?
That was my point, several times mentioned. I think I suggested that
"additions to the invite list" would come from the drivers who were doing
well in the "novice/open" races and deserved a chance to run with the more
experienced drivers....didn't I? I thought I did.
TP
John
> I wouldn't have had to run in even one race. Do a Google search on
> "RASCAR".....look at the number of posts about too many yellows, drivers
not
> knowing the rules, etc, etc. Those are the same complaints I've read for
> years....about pickup racing. And, I didn't run in yesterday's race with
> any other expectations than it would be like running a pickup race. And,
> that's exactly what it was, in my opinion. No big deal. If there's not
> going to be a way of separating the experienced drivers from the
> inexperienced drivers (which I clearly do not understand why many of you
> think that is something bad....like a "black mark" or something
> ridiculous.....since all of racing does this everywhere else).....then I
> said I didn't want to spend my Saturday (middle of the day hours) doing
> that. Others may want to....that's fine with me. Why am I then made out
> like the "bad guy" here? I don't understand some of your guy's logic I
> guess?
> TP
> > Bit curious about that myself; one race, etc.
> > John
> > > > Here's what I think would make the RASCAR racing on Saturday "fun"
> > > It's already fun. It should stay the same. Why do you want things to
> > > change? Another time, RASCAR is not made for you, as in, it won't be
> > > modified only to please you and what kind of "fun" you personally
want.
> > You
> > > have to accept some compromise in life, you know...
> > > I mean there is NOTHING wrong with RASCAR at this moment, what's the
> > > fuss!!!! You basically did ONE race, one single race and you start
> > writing
> > > like you know the cure to all of it's (non-existing) problems.
> > > > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing NOT Fun**
> > > > 1. Being forced to race with novice drivers.
> > > > [Per number 2 above, having novice drivers interfere with the
racing.
> > > > Racing against novices is not always fun....its also not "racing"
for
> an
> > > > experienced driver since he has no feelings of accomplishment in
> winning
> > > or
> > > > beating a novice driver. In fact, its called "teaching".....not
> > racing.]
> > > Sorry but that's a fact of life.
> > > > So, what do you guys think?
> > > I think that you are wasting your "so precious" time by writing all
> these
> > > things. RASCAR doesn't need to change at all.
> > > --
> > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...
David G Fisher
> Because it's Tom Pabst. When he thinks he wants to decides, he acts like
he
> decides.
> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
David Cook
dont fix what's not broken.
Nothing gets my gizzard more than losing to 'novice' racers. I HATE losing!
Losing to 'novices', and 'beginners, and 'experts' , and and and.... GIRLS.
I hate losing to GIRLS. Maybe we should have a girls only race. Yea. Lets
create an invite only race for GIRLS and lets, uhm lets start that race
before the novice race which is before the pro race, and and
lets..............
Enough of this ***. Wheres the next race gonna be so I can start
practicing the grub truck.
grub :)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: I vote "NO" = Invite List for Pro Race
> KB
> > Okay...let's separate out all the ***and get to the point.
> > Here's what I think would make the RASCAR racing on Saturday "fun" and
> > something I would spend 2 or 3 hours doing on a Saturday. This is my
own
> > opinion of "fun" and if shared by others....great. If not....that's
great
> > too.
> > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing Fun**
> > 1. No points tabulation from race to race.
> > [That way I don't have to obligate that time slot to every weekend. If
> that
> > were the case, then it would the same burden as a league and I don't run
> in
> > leagues just for that reason.....I can't fix my schedule in advance to
be
> > certain of not missing a substantial number of league races. RASCAR
does
> > this already.]
> > 2. Have a place to go find some good "door to door" racing...at least
> once
> > a week, with/against people I've known for a long time.
> > [I could get that in a league race, but I've already stated my schedule
> > doesn't allow it. So, this RASCAR event on Saturday could always be run
> > when I wanted to get that fix.]
> > 3. Getting to race with some experienced drivers on tracks that I have
> less
> > experience on.
> > [This would motivate me to practice and learn some tracks where my
> > experience is low. And, I could benefit from seeing first hand, how
some
> of
> > the more experienced drivers run the track and therefore better pin down
> my
> > weaknesses.]
> > **What Would Make RASCAR Racing NOT Fun**
> > 1. Being forced to race with novice drivers.
> > [Per number 2 above, having novice drivers interfere with the racing.
> > Racing against novices is not always fun....its also not "racing" for an
> > experienced driver since he has no feelings of accomplishment in winning
> or
> > beating a novice driver. In fact, its called "teaching".....not
racing.]
> > **What Could Be Added To The RASCAR Format To Accomplish The Fun (and
> avoid
> > the not fun)?**
> > 1. Hold two RASCAR races on Saturday, back to back (not at the same
> > time -:).....).
> > 2. Make one of them a "pro or experienced-drivers-only" race....the
other
> a
> > "novice" or open race (as the RASCAR races are now).
> > 3. Make the "pro" race an invitation only event.
> > [On the driver registration area at RSC, allow a driver to make an entry
> > that says he wants to be invited to the "pro" races, and thus require
> > his/her email address to be included in the driver registration. On
> > Wednesday or Thursday of each week there is to be a RASCAR race, someone
> who
> > is appointed in advance to do this function, decides who will be
"invited"
> > to the pro race on Saturday, makes a 'post' on r.a.s. with a list of the
> > names, and sends (via private email) the unique PW for the race that
> coming
> > weekend. The "drivers" invited can RSVP for the race that weekend, by
> > virtue of making a post in the string of the invite post. As the
weekend
> > approaches, additional drives can be invited if there is not a full
field
> of
> > RSVP's developing for that coming race. The position of making up the
> > weekly "pro race" invite list can be totally volunteer....with say a
> > requirement that you do it for say two months....then the next person
> takes
> > over the job for only two months...and so on. Its not a huge "time
> > consuming" thing to do once a week...for about 8 times.
> > 4. Make the "novice" race an open invitation race (open to all who
visit
> > r.a.s. and know the "standing pw" for the novice race).
> > 5. Make the "novice" race open to any "experienced driver" who wants to
> run
> > in it as well....or maybe many times some of the drivers
