rec.autos.simulators

People are really getting nuts with this whole GPL debate. Insults and
sarcastic comments flying back and forth. I guess I'll get a little nuts
with this post since I've been nice and quiet on the whole GPL issue
(actually, I think it's pretty good but what the f**k do I know?).  :-)

I hope you find at least a little entertainment in the following nonsense:

Let's see, in the past day or so I've had my intelligence questioned with
cute sarcastic comments as well as outright insults. That's the reason for
this post. The insults are getting boring. I had a guy call me a "newbie"
and an "arcader", and say I pissed him off because I replied to a post about
a racing "game" coming out soon. Apparently the sim he has at his house is
so good that he can now race against Schumacher on the weekends and can't
bear the thought of anything other than a "pure sim" mentioned here on
r.a.s. the rest of the week. I replied to him with a post but I guess he
can't be bothered to return the favor to a lowlife like myself or maybe he
simply realized he was wrong. Doubt it though. I know nothing about sims.

I had another r.a.s. regular make very, very, very, clever comments which
basically were calling me stupid because he THOUGHT I couldn't understand
his incredibly large vocabulary. He seemed to be trying very hard to impress
me with it. Personally, I think a clear, concise, to the point, statement,
shows a little more intelligence but, duuuhhhh, whadda I know. I'm gonna
ramble on a little myself right now.

This guy who I just mentioned is one of the head cheerleaders on the 8
member, "R.A.S. CPR Sucks, Cheerleading Squad". He's also the same guy who
wrote the insulting, profanity laced, rantings at the APEX web site a couple
of weeks ago. Anyone remember those? In addition, he made insulting postings
and attached other APEX readers names to them. He mistakenly thinks no one
knows it was him. I've even continued to be civil with him because I'm such
a sweet, sweet guy and understand people make mistakes. I also, believe it
or not, think he has had interesting comments to make in the past. I (and
many, many others) have said frequently that much of the EXTREME criticism
directed at CPR, not the constructive criticism (remember that elaboration
please) comes from MS bashers. This gentleman and his partners shoot that
theory down with counter attacks directed at me, saying I basically know
nothing about sims and am not a very bright guy. He also says that the "MS
bashing phenomena" doesn't exist. Yet, he's the same guy who told people at
MS and TRI, people who are probably just like you and I, "f--k you!", a
number of times in his dozen or so postings on a public message board. No,
no one here at r.a.s. hates MS. No one here let's that dislike of MS cloud
their critique of CPR or any other MS product. Yea, right. I tell people I
respect to "f--k off" all the time in public.

Even though I probably should, I'm not going to say who he is but if he and
his little group are making definitive statements about CPR and how "awful"
it is, or about any sims, and you agree with them completely, then I'd be
worried. If you just don't like it and your reasons are logical, then fine.
I'm sure I agree with you on many, many other sim issues. As far as the 8
cheerleaders, they can kiss my ass.

There's a reason why I won't say who he is and that reason is simple. I'm
not going to become one of the people here at r.a.s. who want to upset
others over something as irrelevant (in the grand scheme of things) as a
piece of entertainment software. If they get off on doing that, so be it. If
they get off on sitting in their homes, behind a keyboard, hundreds or even
a few thousand miles away from someone, flexing their muscles, and calling
them an idiot, moron, a--hole, etc., then good for them. If they like to
disrupt peoples enjoyment of a hobby, great. Keep disrupting public forums
and web sites which someone works *** for no reward. Put people down.
Tell people at companies like Papayrus, MS, Ubi Soft, that what they've
worked so *** is worthless. I've corresponded with many, many people in
the sim community who seem to be very nice, intelligent, friendly, people.
But you r.a.s. tough guys go ahead and insult them at every opportunity.
Just keep up with all the bulls-it! I've been getting it and reading it here
for months. Not just from the 8 but it seems to be popular with quite a few
others as well.

I come here to r.a.s. because I really like racing sims. I want to get the
latest news, hear opinions (especially the ones different from mine since I
may learn something) ask questions, and also help someone occasionally. I
love it when someone comes to r.a.s. who just bought a sim like CPR (or F1,
GPL, whatever) and asks for help and some friggen expert tells him, "that
sim sucks <insert not so clever or funny remark here>". I'll ask the same
guy to e-mail me and I'll help him with his steering settings or give him
some setups, whatever the problem may be, and then the next day he writes
back and thanks me because the sim is working so much better now. He was
just saved hours of time and gets the full experience from the sim. Many of
you do the same. But the "real experts" just love to give their EXPERT
orders and go back to flaming. I guess that's what being a sim enthusiast is
really about at this newsgroup. Too bad for the more polite and friendly who
show up here.

One last thing, for you guys who in the future want to try and insult me in
some oh so clever way, go right ahead and waste your time. You don't know my
personality. I really could give a shit about that stuff or insults directed
at me at any time from anyone. I'm sitting here writing this post (book)
with a nice big smile on my face, a glass of wine in one hand, Van Halen
roaring in the background, an extremely successful company in my portfolio,
a gorgeous Ferrari on it's way in two months (hopefully sooner) and best of
all, a beautiful, 6' foot red headed runway model keeping my bed warm. Do
you really think I'm going to get upset over what someone says to my name on
a damn newsgroup? I could spill that wine on my head, be forced to listen to
Janet Jackson, have the co. snatched by the IRS, drive a turd, and sleep
with Roseanne Barr, and I still wouldn't stop smiling.  :-)

Childish rant now complete.

Dave

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

David G. Fisher quite mistakenly sobbed:

"I had another r.a.s. regular make very, very, very, clever comments
which basically were calling me stupid because he THOUGHT I couldn't
understand his incredibly large vocabulary. He seemed to be trying very
hard to impress me with it. Personally, I think a clear, concise, to the
point, statement, shows a little more intelligence but, duuuhhhh, whadda
I know. I'm gonna ramble on a little myself right now.This guy who I
just mentioned is one of the head cheerleaders on the 8 member, "R.A.S.
CPR Sucks, Cheerleading Squad". He's also the same guy who wrote the
insulting, profanity laced, rantings at the APEX web site a couple of
weeks ago.. Anyone remember those? In addition, he made insulting
postings and attached other APEX readers names to them. He mistakenly
thinks no one knows it was him... Yet, he's the same guy who told people
at MS and TRI, people who are probably just like you and I, "f--k you!",
a number of times in his dozen or so postings on a public message
board."

Mr. Fisher--

If, as is indisputable from the statements above, you are referring to
*me* as the author of those "insulting, profanity laced, rantings at the
APEX web site a couple of weeks ago" and that I "made insulting postings
and attached other APEX readers names to them. He mistakenly thinks no
one knows it was him... Yet, he's the same guy who told people at MS and
TRI, people who are probably just like you and I, "f--k you!", you had
better be looking towards finding a new ISP. It's obvious that your
religious fervor for CPR has quite unbalanced your mind.

I most emphatically did not post any of the referenced messages at Apex.
In all my time on the net, I have never used an alias or email address
other than my real name. I do not use hard-core obscenity in open fora
(like NewsGroups or message boards), and exceptionally rarely in private
email, except to personal friends -- a category in which you do not
remotely fit. I do not***with other people's messages, or ascribe my
messages to someone else.

What you have posted here is not a "childish rant" -- it is an
accusation of misconduct, some of which may be actionable, and you have
leveled those accusations at me, personally, through identifications and
characterizations that are tantamount to using my name directly --
although apparently the courage of your convictions stops well below the
level of decency and fortitude it would take for you to use my name
outright. Perhaps you think that by omitting my name, you have some sort
of "legal" defense in denying it was me to whom you were referring in
your scurrilous and libelous accusations -- let me assure you, the law
is far more sophisticated than that. Prefacing your libels with your own
characterization of them as "nuts", "entertainment", and "nonsense" is
no defence either.

You'd better start getting your mind and your incontrovertible evidence
together -- it is all too easy for the administrator of the Apex
website, using a program such as "Finger", to pinpoint EXACTLY who
posted any particular message. I can assure you with an absolute
certainty that he will find those messages are not mine.

I have been exceptionally patient with your obnoxious pig-headedness,
but this is WAY beyond the last straw. You will post a public apology to
me, in this NewsGroup, recanting these base, malicious, and PROVABLY
false accusations within 3 days time, or I will continue to pursue the
matter through all appropriate channels, including the FCC -- something
neither your ISP or the server carrying the Apex website is likely to
find a cheerful prospect.

Barton S. Brown

I will not participate in any Flame War that you have going on with
David. I also do not appreciate you publicly threatening me or the
server carrying the APEX web site. Please take this squabble and flame
war off of the R.A.S. news group so that people's bandwidth will not be
wasted by personal issues.

Now that I have said that, can people just get along? I know people's
feelings can get quite strong about a game that they love or hate but it
is not worth fighting over! I see people react so harshly to each other
on this news group. This should be a great place to discuss issues
regarding automotive simulators, not a Jerry Springer or Rikki Lake talk
show. :-)

Thanks
John

Barton,

If you read my post, I never once gave any indication that it was you I was
speaking of. There are hundreds of people here at r.a.s. Many have replied
to my posts. I stated very clearly that I WAS NOT going to say who it was to
anyone and I CLEARLY gave the reasons why. Why you've involved yourself is
beyond me. I KNOW who it was and that's all that matters to me.

The only reason I'm replying to your post now is because you have apparently
decided to involve others who have nothing to do with what I posted. I
haven't discussed anything in that thread with anyone at the APEX, or anyone
at all for that matter. So leave them out of it.

The main thrust of my post was how rude this place has become when all
that's being discussed is auto simulators. NO NAMES were mentioned AT ALL
and I didn't provide any hints in the slightest. You will get no public
apologies from me since it was your choice to involve yourself in this
thread. In case you haven't noticed, the post has been up for 13 hours and
NO ONE has replied saying they thought I was referring to you due to what I
said in my post.  If you want to take some kind of action against me, go
ahead, I'll let the lawyers take care of it. I really don't care.

Dave

David G Fisher wrote :

Oh well, this I know it's me (I wasn't pissed off at all).  I actually don't
understand how you can tell that MTM2 can play with the big boys (a.k.a.
Papyrus).  TRI has no intention to make this game a serious simulator, and
it is shown only by the fact that this is "Monster truck Racing".  Like I
said the 3points you need for at least thinks it's simulator are 1) Game
Engine 2) AI 3) Overall realism of the game.

First of all, since Monster Truck racing (except drag racing) doesn't exists
AFAIK. The Game engine can be done anyhow, with no proof of it's realism.
This is IMHO the main fact why it's non-sense to call MTM2 a serious
simulator.

The AI in MTM was good.  Well, they were faster when you are in front and
slower if you were behind them, but it wasn't THAT arcade.   Since it's
obvious that the sequel will have better AI, I can let you this point

Finally, overall realism of the game. Well, we all know that MTM2 looks
good. Mainly because it doesn't need very big cycles for the game engine,
and can put more into the graphics.  It will surely be a hit for the
racing-arcade market, but never for the racing simulator market.  Oh and
since the Microsoft's games are known to be very "WaReZable", it will be
very fast labelled as that (like WarCraft2).  The betas can be found
everywhere on the net presently, so I assume the same for the full version.

I never told it would be a bad game.  I only said that no where it can be
classed with the serious simulator titles.

Who are the 8 cheerleaders btw ?  (We want names, or at least hints !)

Well, that's what we all do in a certain way.  Since I have background
simulation and reality racing, I can at least try to give my semi-expert
opinion.  To discuss with people, help people who don't always know what to
buy and what to not buy.  You know most of us help people (or at least try)
most of the time.

Oh, great for you to hear you are having an healthly life.  I am also, but
not to your point ;-)

Wasn't childish, I respect your opinion. (but do I accept it, that's another
point ;-)    )

Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

--"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Well said.  I think people here tend to lose sight of what the assumed
purpose of this newsgroup should be:  to help people.  It helps people if I
can inform them of a bad game in advance.  It helps people if they have a
technical problem, and I can help them.  I am perfectly willing to do this
as I might need the same assistance in the future.  It helps to give people
advice on what controllers to buy.  It is fun to discuss ideas and thought
about new and upcoming sims with other people who have common interests.
However, it doesn't help people when they get slammed or bashed for politely
expressing their opinions.  I can appreciate the people who like CPR;  hey
everybody is different.  I don't have access to the multiplayer part, and as
I hear, this is what turns alot of people on about the game.  As a single
player sim, I don't like it.  Does this make me an idiot?  Hardly, I just
have a different use for the game, and it doesn't fit my needs.  But I will
never try to stop someone else from stating their opinion, because I don't
always think the same as everyone else, and my taste doesn't apply to
everyone.  My point is that everyone needs to think twice before they go off
on someone.  If it is justified, fine.  Just be a gentleman about it.

Bad boys? I seriously doubt that. I was bored, and had 5 minutes free time
to kill. You should have read the last paragraph a lttle more carefully.

Still Smiling,

Dave

Pardon me for not replying sooner; my ISP was down all day yesterday.

Sorry you misunderstood my intention, and perhaps my choice of wording
was not quite as precise as it should have been. I did not in any way
mean to threaten you or your website, or your server -- my message to
David Fisher was that his accusations that I had posted those faked and
obscenity-laden messages at Apex could be easily disproved by retrieving
the messages and checking them with "Finger", although it wouldn't be a
fun task for the administrator of the site to have to do so. That's what
I meant by it being NOT "A cheerful prospect." Sorry I wasn't more
clear.

David has accused me of something that I not only didn't do, but
something I complained to YOU about, saying that these faked and
foul-mouthed ***grams on the Apex message boards hardly made Apex seem
a welcoming place. I've been waging a fairly quixotic campaign against
UseNet, web, and email abuse of this very sort, as anyone could readily
ascertain by even a casual perusal of my posts in rec.models.scale, for
instance.

"When by mistake, you thought that I was deleting your messages on the
APEX web site I was very helpful towards you."

Either you have me confused with someone else, or I've completely gone
blank in the head -- I don't recall this at all. I don't believe I've
ever had a problem with you or Apex, and I still don't. In fact, I was
about to write and thank you for removing the faked messages from the
board... Whatever my opinion of CPR or Microsoft's "response" to their
customers, I have never had any complaints about Apex (except the
***grams, which were certainly not your fault, and which you corrected
quite admirably) or your administration of it.

Again, my apologies for just sending you a cc of my warning to David
Fisher without an accompanying explanation -- I hold you and Apex
entirely blameless in this matter. Fisher, on the other hand, has made a
big mistake -- I don't like flame wars any more than you do, although
I'm sure people think I'm some sort of instigator. People will think
what they think -- there's not much I can do about that. But to have
someone publicly accuse me of acts which I find personally repugnant --
acts which I complained to you about at the time -- is just too much to
let slide.

Fisher took a message of mine that had nothing whatsoever to do with
CPR, and used it to further his "Anti-Microsoft Theory" about the
general unhappiness with CPR. I replied to that message as best I could,
and when David persisted, by stating that I had not answered his
question, I replied again. Then David went nuts, and made his
outrageous, antagonistic, and utterly groundless accusations that I was
the author of the faked messages on Apex. That, I'm afraid, was the
straw that broke the camel's back. People can call me names, question my
sanity, and call me stupid 'til the cows come home -- it makes no
difference to me. But when someone publicly states that I have done
something which I have not done, that's the end of tolerance for me.

Sorry for the long post, and sorry for the misunderstanding.

Bart Brown

Also, you wrote from the safe anonymity of DejaNews:

"Also interesting in the past few months of  your postings. We have
noticed you have threatened at least 4 others with this " Im gonna tell
your ISP " thing?"

Quite true -- and that's exactly what I was trying to do at Apex, as the
site administrator can attest. No one has a "right" to use foul,
profane, or *** language -- either in email or in open forum. You
may check with my ISP's abuse administrator, and Hotmail's as well,  if
you'd like further verification of this fact -- in the last two weeks,
together we've been able to close around a dozen accounts, ranging from
***o site spammers to UseNet TOS abusers.

Maybe you'll have the courage to come out of hiding someday, maybe not.
At any rate, I've forwarded your accusatory notes, and your rather weak
mea culpa, to DejaNews -- with full headers. Perhaps you'll have a more
enjoyable time explaining to them your notions of freedom of speech.

Bart Brown

Fisher-- This is the last direct communication you will receive from me.
You've dragged this out and denied your own responsibility for far too
long. Please don't try to insult my, or anyone else's, intelligence by

"I had another r.a.s. regular make very, very, very, clever comments
which basically were calling me stupid because he THOUGHT I couldn't
understand his incredibly large vocabulary...This guy who I just
mentioned is one of the head cheerleaders on the 8 member, "R.A.S. CPR
Sucks, Cheerleading Squad". He's also the same guy who wrote the
insulting, profanity laced, rantings at the APEX web site a couple of
weeks ago.. Anyone remember those? In addition, he made insulting
postings and attached other APEX readers names to them. He mistakenly
thinks no one knows it was him... Yet, he's the same guy who told people
at MS and TRI, people who are probably just like you and I, "f--k you!",
a number of times in his dozen or so postings on a public message
board."

Since I had just reposted a long and verbose message to you in simpler
terms I hoped -- in vain, as it turned out -- you could understand,
there is no doubt as to whom you're referring in the above scurrilous
calumny. Yes, I'm the guy who made "very, very, very clever comments"
about your inability to misunderstand my "incredibly large vocabulary".
Yes, I'm the guy you have characterized before, and publicly, as "one of
the head cheerleaders on the 8 member, 'R.A.S. CPR Sucks, Cheerleading
Squad'" -- but I can assure you with absolute certitude that I am NOT
the guy who posted the faked, foul-mouthed, and insulting posts at Apex,
NOR am I the "guy who told people at MS and TRI, people who are probably
just like you and I, 'f--k you!', a number of times in his dozen or so
postings on a public message board."

I have explained my position to John at Apex, and that's between him and
me. It has nothing to do with you or your postings -- it has to do with
the positive identification of the postings you have ascribed to me.

who has such courage of his convictions that he's posting anonymously
from DejaNews. He learned, after all his accusations, that he was wrong.
You are wrong, and I hope you've learned.

I'll give you an alternative: either publicly apologize in this NG for
your groundless libel, or simply state, here in the NG, that you know
damned well I had nothing whatsoever to do with those messages posted to
Apex except to ask John to remove them from the message board.

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