I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious about the reasoning behind
this restriction.
Rob
> I hear a lot in here about how the FIA prevents sim developers from
> developing proper Internet multiplayer modes for F1 games. I'm too lazy to
> search back into the dim RAS past so could anybody please provide me with a
> URL or two describing this restriction?
It's just an excuse that gets wheeled out by ubisoft and on behalf of
ubisoft, by DGF.
> > I hear a lot in here about how the FIA prevents sim developers from
> > developing proper Internet multiplayer modes for F1 games. I'm too lazy
to
> > search back into the dim RAS past so could anybody please provide me
with a
> > URL or two describing this restriction?
> www.all/in/davids/mind.com
> > Preferably right to the source
> > rather than a "we've been told" or "it's been alleged" kind of page? ;)
> > I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious about the reasoning
behind
> > this restriction.
> It's just an excuse that gets wheeled out by ubisoft and on behalf of
> ubisoft, by DGF.
Doug
> > I hear a lot in here about how the FIA prevents sim developers from
> > developing proper Internet multiplayer modes for F1 games. I'm too lazy
to
> > search back into the dim RAS past so could anybody please provide me
with a
> > URL or two describing this restriction?
> www.all/in/davids/mind.com
> > Preferably right to the source
> > rather than a "we've been told" or "it's been alleged" kind of page? ;)
> > I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious about the reasoning
behind
> > this restriction.
> It's just an excuse that gets wheeled out by ubisoft and on behalf of
> ubisoft, by DGF.
DGF and I don't agree on much (anything?) but I believe there is SOME truth
to the FIA restrictions.
p.s. You ALMOST got me clicking that link, before I read it carefully ;)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***Zone/ Along with it's work with POD going back
five years ago (excellent multiplay, dedicated servers, built in ranking
sytem, and $10,000 tournament which I participated in), this site is pretty
good evidence Ubi Soft strongly supports online multiplayer.
Here are some quotes from Schumi who is the creator of Relay. He certainly
knows a little bit about the Ubi Soft situation.
The Reason for Ubisoft (Official)
The reason Ubisoft didn't support us in any way was simply because they are
bound by contract from 2 seperate parties, NOT to provide support. This is
particularly the case with online play. They are forbidden by contract to
even discuss the merits, methods, etc.
Ubisoft (I talked to the head guys in charge of F1RC), wished that they
could. Unfortunately they are forbidden by contract to even speak to me on
the topic.
I can understand this, and it is simply the terms Ubisoft are bound by in
contract. Those are unfortunately the required terms for Ubi acquiring the
FIA license.
As best I can tell, Ubisoft are using VideoSystem's FIA license, not their
own, per-se. Video Systems did not purchase/negotiate that second tier
license (online play), and therefore are unable to support/create a game
that uses the FIA license online.
And more from Schumi:
Hopefully I can provide some insight on the "Online Racing Genre Pitfalls."
Perhaps even dispel some myths that seem to persist amongst the community.
1) Ubisoft was not permitted to even "promote" F1RC online, or any online
capabilities thereof. That was a contractual limitation in their license. As
such, Ubisoft could not supply us with an iota of support (without taking a
serious business risk), <even though they really wanted to after seeing what
we had to offer ;]>. So we basically had to hack the game to get it played
online... which is why many of the features we have yet to show are not
included or viewable currently.
David G Fisher
Read my other post in this thread and ***on it.
Eldred?
David G Fisher
> > I hear a lot in here about how the FIA prevents sim developers from
> > developing proper Internet multiplayer modes for F1 games. I'm too lazy
to
> > search back into the dim RAS past so could anybody please provide me
with a
> > URL or two describing this restriction?
> www.all/in/davids/mind.com
> > Preferably right to the source
> > rather than a "we've been told" or "it's been alleged" kind of page? ;)
> > I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious about the reasoning
behind
> > this restriction.
> It's just an excuse that gets wheeled out by ubisoft and on behalf of
> ubisoft, by DGF.
> And EA Sports as well then. And Hasbro
> Doug
> > It's just an excuse that gets wheeled out by ubisoft and on behalf of
> > ubisoft, by DGF.
> Now now Gerry, this is the kind of fight I was trying not to start.
> DGF and I don't agree on much (anything?) but I believe there is SOME truth
> to the FIA restrictions.
> p.s. You ALMOST got me clicking that link, before I read it carefully ;)
To be honest, as far as online F1 is concerned, I really couldn't give
two shits. Just think about the plankton it would attract anyway!
I get all the quality online racing i could ever want within Vroc and my
GPL league, i'm even considering an n4 league drive. So I won't shed a
tear over the lack of F1 online.
Gerry
<SNIP>
David G Fisher
> <SNIP>
The cost for the non-exclusive right to put F1 on the box and the names and
likenesses of the cars, tracks and drivers is more than double this figure.
THAT is the main reason why good online play is not included. If I was a
developer, I sure as hell wouldn't want to spend time working online
efficiency into the code if you can't afford to pay for the right to include
it in the first place. Bernie has priced it so high that it's not
economically viable.
Oh, and if it's in the code and optimised for the net without the payment of
the licence fee, you can get sued six ways to sunday by the FIA.
All the best
Ian
www.simbin.com
> <SNIP>
<snip>
> I have it on good authority, that a seperate fee along the lines of
> $5,000,000 payable to ... well Bernie's pocket in the final analysis is what
> it will cost for an out of the box fully implemented online facility.
Why is it that, ATM, everybody loses?
<SNIP>
Nice to see the FIA are killing online sim racing just like they've
killed so many other categories of the RL sport!
So why has he done that then?
What about a 3rd party taking, say, F1RC and hacking it to work online,
is that legal?
Cheers
Gerry
No, he can't speak for Bernie, but my take on it is that Bernie has turned
F1 into the multi-billion dollar glitzy international circus it is, by
setting prices and constantly increasing them until either a) the original
party can't afford them and another, richer party takes over, or b) the deal
falls through altogether (a la Driver, although that was probably a good
thing :-) )
I don't think he understands the concept of pricing to the market. It's
always been all or nothing with him as far as I can see...
I DO know, that F1 Games will get a little thin on the ground over the next
few years, as those publishers that can afford the 'big bucks' will be
fighting tooth and nail for exclusive contracts when the current agreements
expire.
Couldn't agree more, though Bernie's experience has always been that someone
with the requisite cash almost always shows up in the end.
Again, because he can, and often gets it in the end.
No, it's illegal on two counts - one you'll be modifying Ubi's code without
permission. And you can bet your arse that Ubi won't give it or they'll be
liable for the licence fee, and two, if you add the facility, you are
basically providing what the Games manufacturers omitted because they
couldn't afford it, and therefore YOU will be liable to the payment to
Bernie's coffers.
That's not to say that if you did, you won't get away with it. There are a
few systems out there...
Cheers
Ian
www.simbin.com
> > I have it on good authority, that a seperate fee along the lines of
> > $5,000,000 payable to ... well Bernie's pocket in the final analysis is
what
> > it will cost for an out of the box fully implemented online facility.
> That's $5,000,000 which no software co. has ever paid or is ever likely
> to. Does your source know (a) Why the price is so punitively high? And
> (b) If it might be lowered so the FIA at least get some money for that
> part of the license and F1 fans get race each other?
> Why is it that, ATM, everybody loses?
> <SNIP>
> > The cost for the non-exclusive right to put F1 on the box and the names
and
> > likenesses of the cars, tracks and drivers is more than double this
figure.
> Nice to see the FIA are killing online sim racing just like they've
> killed so many other categories of the RL sport!
> > THAT is the main reason why good online play is not included. If I was a
> > developer, I sure as hell wouldn't want to spend time working online
> > efficiency into the code if you can't afford to pay for the right to
include
> > it in the first place. Bernie has priced it so high that it's not
> > economically viable.
> So why has he done that then?
> > Oh, and if it's in the code and optimised for the net without the
payment of
> > the licence fee, you can get sued six ways to sunday by the FIA.
> What about a 3rd party taking, say, F1RC and hacking it to work online,
> is that legal?
> Cheers
> Gerry
And your right about F1 sims thinning out too. There'll be plenty of
arcade ones on the consoles for the kids to play though. Anyway, I don't
care, feel sorry for those that do though (DGF), I've got my historic F1
and Nascar, oh and WSC soon too.
F1 will in it's current state will disappear up it's own areshole in the
end anyway (just like DGF did recently), good riddance to a***poor
'racing' (hah!) spectacle I say :). It's more a single file parade of
high-tech, gunk around some of the dullest circuits in motor racing
history.
Historic racing is the future of RL motorsport too, IMHO of course. ;)
Gerry
