rec.autos.simulators

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

Ian Bel

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by Ian Bel » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 03:49:27

LOL
Wonderfully worded Gerry :-)



> No, he can't speak for Bernie, but my take on it is that Bernie has turned
> F1 into the multi-billion dollar glitzy international circus it is, by
> setting prices and constantly increasing them until either a) the original
> party can't afford them and another, richer party takes over, or b) the
deal
> falls through altogether (a la Driver, although that was probably a good
> thing :-) )

Agreed Ian, British GP 350 a forking ticket?!?! They only want the
*** rich there on race day. Bernie wants the rest of us scum to watch
on TV were we can be counted towards the viewing figures!

And your right about F1 sims thinning out too. There'll be plenty of
arcade ones on the consoles for the kids to play though. Anyway, I don't
care, feel sorry for those that do though (DGF), I've got my historic F1
and Nascar, oh and WSC soon too.

F1 will in it's current state will disappear up it's own areshole in the
end anyway (just like DGF did recently), good riddance to a***poor
'racing' (hah!) spectacle I say :). It's more a single file parade of
high-tech, gunk  around some of the dullest circuits in motor racing
history.

Historic racing is the future of RL motorsport too, IMHO of course. ;)

Gerry

Gerry Aitke

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by Gerry Aitke » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 03:56:34


> >F1 will, in it's current state, disappear up it's own areshole in the
> >end anyway (just like DGF did recently), good riddance to a***poor
> >'racing' (hah!) spectacle I say :). It's more a single file parade of
> >high-tech, gunk  around some of the dullest circuits in motor racing
> >history.

> LOL
> Wonderfully worded Gerry :-)

Hehee, I fear I didn't go far enough, maybe tomorrow. ;)

Gerry

David G Fishe

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by David G Fishe » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 05:53:04

Yea, F1 is going to go down the toilet real soon. You're such a genius.

In this thread, you were completely wrong, and I was 100% right.

You've made yourself look like a fool with the way you attacked me. You were
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong.

You know nothing.

You sound very old and dusty too.

David G Fisher



> No, he can't speak for Bernie, but my take on it is that Bernie has turned
> F1 into the multi-billion dollar glitzy international circus it is, by
> setting prices and constantly increasing them until either a) the original
> party can't afford them and another, richer party takes over, or b) the
deal
> falls through altogether (a la Driver, although that was probably a good
> thing :-) )

Agreed Ian, British GP 350 a forking ticket?!?! They only want the
*** rich there on race day. Bernie wants the rest of us scum to watch
on TV were we can be counted towards the viewing figures!

And your right about F1 sims thinning out too. There'll be plenty of
arcade ones on the consoles for the kids to play though. Anyway, I don't
care, feel sorry for those that do though (DGF), I've got my historic F1
and Nascar, oh and WSC soon too.

F1 will in it's current state will disappear up it's own areshole in the
end anyway (just like DGF did recently), good riddance to a***poor
'racing' (hah!) spectacle I say :). It's more a single file parade of
high-tech, gunk  around some of the dullest circuits in motor racing
history.

Historic racing is the future of RL motorsport too, IMHO of course. ;)

Gerry

Gerry Aitke

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by Gerry Aitke » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 05:55:16


> You were wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong.

Grow up and go away.

Condescendingly yours

GDA

Gerry Aitke

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by Gerry Aitke » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 05:54:25


> You were wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong.

Grow up and go away.

Condescendingly yours

GDA

Schum

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by Schum » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:10:31

Relay is legal by virtue of some fancy legal footwork planned long in
advance to the release.

The reasons are long winded, boring, and dry (puts me to sleep). But rest
assured we have investigated it.

Cheers,
Schumi


> IS relay legal?


> <snip>

Asbj?rn Bj?rnst

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by Asbj?rn Bj?rnst » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:15:43


> F1 will in it's current state will disappear up it's own areshole in the
> end anyway (just like DGF did recently), good riddance to a***poor
> 'racing' (hah!) spectacle I say :). It's more a single file parade of
> high-tech, gunk  around some of the dullest circuits in motor racing
> history.

I didn't know F1 raced on ovals.
--
  -asbjxrn
Schum

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by Schum » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:16:32

If you could please do your homework before accusing us of being illegal, it
would be greatly appreciated :).

UbiSoft have full knowledge of what we have done, and expressed
disappointment that they cannot do anything to help us increase the online
playability, etc. for F1RC. Indeed the foot soldiers (and even some
management) at Ubi are scratching their heads at the suits who forked out
the gobs of money for the basic license, when so much more could be done
without it (and a better bottom-line too I might add).

Ubisoft are the only ones who could "conceivably" have issues with us, but
by virtue of how Relay makes F1RC playable online... we avoid all liability
(we simply use what Ubi themselves provided without alterations to code,
etc.). Not to mention... Ubi don't really WANT to shut us down... they like
what we have done for F1RC (given the circumstances... limited) and wish us
well.

Cheers,
Schumi


> >Does your source know (a) Why the price is so punitively high? And
> > (b) If it might be lowered so the FIA at least get some money for that
> > part of the license and F1 fans get race each other?

> No, he can't speak for Bernie, but my take on it is that Bernie has turned
> F1 into the multi-billion dollar glitzy international circus it is, by
> setting prices and constantly increasing them until either a) the original
> party can't afford them and another, richer party takes over, or b) the
deal
> falls through altogether (a la Driver, although that was probably a good
> thing :-) )
> I don't think he understands the concept of pricing to the market. It's
> always been all or nothing with him as far as I can see...
> I DO know, that F1 Games will get a little thin on the ground over the
next
> few years, as those publishers that can afford the 'big bucks' will be
> fighting tooth and nail for exclusive contracts when the current
agreements
> expire.

> >Nice to see the FIA are killing online sim racing just like they've
> > killed so many other categories of the RL sport!

> Couldn't agree more, though Bernie's experience has always been that
someone
> with the requisite cash almost always shows up in the end.

> > So why has he done that then?

> Again, because he can, and often gets it in the end.

> > What about a 3rd party taking, say, F1RC and hacking it to work online,
> > is that legal?

> No, it's illegal on two counts - one you'll be modifying Ubi's code
without
> permission. And you can bet your arse that Ubi won't give it or they'll be
> liable for the licence fee, and two, if you add the facility, you are
> basically providing what the Games manufacturers omitted because they
> couldn't afford it, and therefore YOU will be liable to the payment to
> Bernie's coffers.

> That's not to say that if you did, you won't get away with it. There are a
> few systems out there...

> Cheers

> Ian
> www.simbin.com




> > > I have it on good authority, that a seperate fee along the lines of
> > > $5,000,000 payable to ... well Bernie's pocket in the final analysis
is
> what
> > > it will cost for an out of the box fully implemented online facility.

> > That's $5,000,000 which no software co. has ever paid or is ever likely
> > to. Does your source know (a) Why the price is so punitively high? And
> > (b) If it might be lowered so the FIA at least get some money for that
> > part of the license and F1 fans get race each other?

> > Why is it that, ATM, everybody loses?

> > <SNIP>

> > > The cost for the non-exclusive right to put F1 on the box and the
names
> and
> > > likenesses of the cars, tracks and drivers is more than double this
> figure.

> > Nice to see the FIA are killing online sim racing just like they've
> > killed so many other categories of the RL sport!

> > > THAT is the main reason why good online play is not included. If I was
a
> > > developer, I sure as hell wouldn't want to spend time working online
> > > efficiency into the code if you can't afford to pay for the right to
> include
> > > it in the first place. Bernie has priced it so high that it's not
> > > economically viable.

> > So why has he done that then?

> > > Oh, and if it's in the code and optimised for the net without the
> payment of
> > > the licence fee, you can get sued six ways to sunday by the FIA.

> > What about a 3rd party taking, say, F1RC and hacking it to work online,
> > is that legal?

> > Cheers

> > Gerry

Rafe McAuliff

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by Rafe McAuliff » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 17:35:07

I may not agree with you on a lot of topics, but you're 100% correct
in my view here.

The FIA simply want to keep their cards to their chest with online
multiplayer. Maybe they have some future plans to license an inhouse
setup (as Ian alluded to) or some other money grabbing plans. But I
have no doubt that they have separate licensing agreements for
multiplayer that are priced out of the reach of the developers.

 It simply sucks. And I blame Bernie.

Rafe Mc

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:06:15 GMT, "David G Fisher"


>I don't keep a file on every topic that gets talked about on r.a.s., so
>things I've read aren't loaded up and ready to go for a thread like this. I
>don't have secret tapes of conversations with FIA officials either. :-) I'll
>leave my opinion on what I've read and learned out of this post, and just
>give you a few things below. I won't bother to give my opinions on the FIA
>either, or examples of how they control every tiny detail of their sport.

>http://www.racesimcentral.net/***Zone/ Along with it's work with POD going back
>five years ago (excellent multiplay, dedicated servers, built in ranking
>sytem, and $10,000 tournament which I participated in), this site is pretty
>good evidence Ubi Soft strongly supports online multiplayer.

>Here are some quotes from Schumi who is the creator of Relay. He certainly
>knows a little bit about the Ubi Soft situation.

>The Reason for Ubisoft (Official)
>The reason Ubisoft didn't support us in any way was simply because they are
>bound by contract from 2 seperate parties, NOT to provide support. This is
>particularly the case with online play. They are forbidden by contract to
>even discuss the merits, methods, etc.

>Ubisoft (I talked to the head guys in charge of F1RC), wished that they
>could. Unfortunately they are forbidden by contract to even speak to me on
>the topic.

>I can understand this, and it is simply the terms Ubisoft are bound by in
>contract. Those are unfortunately the required terms for Ubi acquiring the
>FIA license.

>As best I can tell, Ubisoft are using VideoSystem's FIA license, not their
>own, per-se. Video Systems did not purchase/negotiate that second tier
>license (online play), and therefore are unable to support/create a game
>that uses the FIA license online.

>And more from Schumi:

>Hopefully I can provide some insight on the "Online Racing Genre Pitfalls."
>Perhaps even dispel some myths that seem to persist amongst the community.

>1) Ubisoft was not permitted to even "promote" F1RC online, or any online
>capabilities thereof. That was a contractual limitation in their license. As
>such, Ubisoft could not supply us with an iota of support (without taking a
>serious business risk), <even though they really wanted to after seeing what
>we had to offer ;]>. So we basically had to hack the game to get it played
>online... which is why many of the features we have yet to show are not
>included or viewable currently.

>David G Fisher

Rafe McAuliff

Naive Q. about FIA and online restrictions

by Rafe McAuliff » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 17:37:19

hehe, nice one.

Rafe Mc


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