rec.autos.simulators

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

David G Fishe

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by David G Fishe » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 06:09:42


You said, "realistically it's not very entertaining for fans." People
wouldn't be watching it if it weren't entertaining.

You also agreed with the comment, "Nascar
 racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole track
from the stands.  Oval
 racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so popular.
 Road racing in any form is
 great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see a
 small percentage of the racing
 action."

You then said it was the general concensus. It may be in this small thread,
but I pointed out that world wide it's obviously not.

A lot of sports are world wide series but don't attract a fraction of the
viewers of F1.

About 250,000 viewers per F1 race are from the U.S. I don't have exact
figures for Asia, Australia, South America, and Europe.

I live in Southern NJ, and to be honest, I don't have one friend or family
member who watches NASCAR. Last time someone I know talked about NASCAR
around me was back in high school 17 years ago (Ricky Rudd fan). It's never
talked about on one of the most listened to radio sports talk stations (WIP
in Philadelphia) in the country. Guarantee that isn't the case in Europe. F1
is neck and neck in popularity with soccer worldwide.

David G Fisher



> > An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts
> > about 12 million per race.

> > Seems to me that people find F1 an overwhelmingly more excitiing form of
> > auto racing to watch.

> > David G Fisher



> > > That appears to be the general concensus.



> > > > in your opinion

> > > > Doug



> > > > > Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to
> hear
> > > > yourself compain?  Nascar
> > > > > racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole
> > track
> > > > from the stands.  Oval
> > > > > racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so
> > popular.
> > > > Road racing in any form is
> > > > > great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only
see
> a
> > > > small percentage of the racing
> > > > > action.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Biz

> > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't
> understand
> > > > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular
> > > structures,....and
> > > > > the....." - Ash



> > > > > > clearly :D

> > > > > > Doug



> > > > > > > Obviously. (-:


> message

> > > > > > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but
> > they
> > > > badge
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > nascar and people watch it.

> > > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion

> > > > > > > > Doug



> > > > > > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to
> watch
> > > the
> > > > F1
> > > > > > > race
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big
> wreck
> > in
> > > > turn
> > > > > > 1
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy
all
> > > types
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very
entertaining
> > for
> > > > fans.


> > > message



> > > > > > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play
> it.
> > > > > > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain
> about
> > > > NASCAR
> > > > > > > sims
> > > > > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect?
> > > > > > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it
to
> > be
> > > > > > > > competitive
> > > > > > > > > :)

> > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit.

> > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks

> > > > > > > > > > Doug

TlgtrPr

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by TlgtrPr » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 06:13:00

Been reading your back and forth with some smiles.  You both have points of
view with merits to both.  Watch what you enjoy, but that doesn't require
putting down the other forms of racing.

I enjoy NASCAR since I can actually get to see it live..(I want to get to USGP
eventually too..)..my favorite is sports car racing-living not that far from
Elkhart Lake track

.  It's like to old Football, soccer, baseball argument that you hear all the
time-somebody likes all of them and somebody thinks they are all boring.  I
have seen some very exciting F1 races and some very exciting NASCAR oval races.
 At the same time they both can be extremely boring -  if someone gets way out
front early and the race is basically over.  This is the simulations
forlum...you can try them all!

****
"Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles per
second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass!  Ain't that just
the neatest thing?" -- Bob 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by*** Schaap (quote
approximate)

Colin Harri

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by Colin Harri » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 06:23:35



Plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose...didn't we have this 'discussion'
a few months ago?
Only this time, with a twist - F1 is nowhere NEAR as popular as 'soccer'.

Goy Larse

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by Goy Larse » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 06:45:14



> > I refer to Martinsville as more of a complete farce than a race track

> So you are basically refuting all the history of short-track racing in North
> America.  <roll eyes>

Short tracks and road courses, it's where it's at maaaan

I really have to stop watching those commercials on Animal Planet

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life"
--Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Gerry Aitke

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by Gerry Aitke » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:13:49


> NASCAR has been around a very long time. If the world was clamoring for it,
> they would of gotten it by now. Money, money, money. F1 is neck and neck
> with soccer in popularity.

No, F1 is a load of hype that has stifled other, better, forms of
motorsport.
It's loved by the great 'unwashed' in the same way crap, superficial
popular music is. Something being 'popular' doesn't imply quality.

BTW, WTF is 'soccer'? You must mean football. It's called football
because the outfield players control the ball using their feet, only
using their hands to throw the ball back into player.

Goalkeepers, on the other hand.........

Gerry Aitke

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by Gerry Aitke » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:30:27


> F1 is neck and neck in popularity with soccer worldwide.

Dream on, F1 is a minnow next to 'the beautiful game'. FOOTBALL, has a
much more fanatical following too. I mean, in some countries animals are
even sacrificed to aid a teams victory! Supporting a football team is
NOTHING like being a MS fan.

As usual, David, your comments are as worthless as you are clueless.

Yours sneeringly

GDA

Ian

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by Ian » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 06:17:10

I think, as you say, it depends on what you're used to. I could ask the same
thing but about F1 and NASCAR and most people over here (UK) wouldn't even
have heard of NASCAR let alone know what it is or watch it.
F1 on the other hand is very popular, it's shown on mainstream terrestial TV
on a Sunday afternoon so nearly everyone knows what it is and many (even non
fans) will watch it.

I have nothing against NASCAR, I'll watch the occasional race if I'm having
trouble sleeping <G> but I prefer F1, where every pass on track has to be
fought for and I can follow the tactics. It seems to me, that NASCAR is
about staying on the lead lap and hoping the FCY is thrown at the optimal
moment :)

--

Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>


Ed Solhei

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by Ed Solhei » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:57:11

In N4 I must say I enjoy many different types of tracks..

The Glen, Indy, Pocono, Daytona/Dega, Rockingham, Texas, Dover, Atlanta,
Lowes, Homestead, Michigan, Silverstone, Phoenix and N Hampshire are
probably those I
enjoy the most...

While Martinsville (used to be one of my favorites in N2), Sears Point (It
cannot be that bad??  I mean I'm getting seasick !) and  Darlington
(completely ruined by the wallriding "fix") are among those i dislike the
most.

--
ed_

Ed Solhei

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by Ed Solhei » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:01:34

I see you swallow Bernies TV-figures raw Dave :-)

Pehaps you're one of the... what was is .. 17 billion people that follow F1
yeah year.....

Damn I could swear there's not much more than 7 billion of us on this
planet....  but parhaps they're counting aliens too?

:-)

--
ed_

David G Fishe

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by David G Fishe » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:04:35

There's 54 billion. :-)
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/02/s8546.html

The 350 million per race figure doesn't just come from Ecclestone. The
advertisers and engine manufacturers who pump hundreds of millions of
dollars ($210 million per year from Honda for example) into the sport won't
just take his word for it. Before they invest that amount of money, they
check, and re-check, and re-check, and........

David G Fisher


jason moy

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by jason moy » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:16:09


350 million?!?

Do that many people in the entire world own a TV and get a station
that F1 is broadcast on?  That's larger than the entire population of
all but a handful of countries.

Jason

David G Fishe

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by David G Fishe » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:22:27

It's broadcast in over 200 countries.

David G Fisher



David G Fishe

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by David G Fishe » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:55:05

Here's a couple of links I dug up real quick regarding F1 viewership.

http://europe.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/03/01/racing.F1/

http://home.worldnet.fr/~spurgeon/malay.HTM

http://www.hire-speed.com/web/f1/f1.htm

http://www.fia.com/PRESSE/F1-a/25-02-97.htm

From this article: http://www.formeleins.de/f118cost.html
The FIA released the figures for the F1 television audience in Paris (Mar
'97). The 16 Formula One events in '96 were broadcast, (live or taped) in
202 countries with an average audience of 2.5 billion viewers, or half the
world's population. In comparison, another popular worldwide event, soccer's
World Cup, garnered an audience of 32 billion, or 30 percent smaller than
the F1 circuit's 41 billion total. "Formula One is securely stabilished as
the number one television event" declared Max Mosley, FIA president.

David G Fisher



Colin Harri

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by Colin Harri » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:58:11



That's hust the World Cup, though, one event. You said 'soccer'. I say it
again, F1 (popular though it is) is nowhere NEAR as popular as football.

David G Fishe

Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

by David G Fishe » Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:30:26

We're talking about leagues or organizations such as NASCAR, CART, NFL, NBA,
NHL, MLBA, College Football, etc. and comparing them to F1. F1 crushes them
all.

If you take every single soccer match from all the various leagues
throughout the world and total their viewership, I guess it outdraws F1 but
that's an apple and oranges comparison. That we even have to go to that type
of comparison makes it clear that F1, like I said, runs neck and neck with
football/soccer in world wide popularity.

Is there a single football league/organization anywhere in the world that
has viewership like F1?

The World Cup comparison is about the best I can think of and probably why
it's often used in comparisons to F1. If anything, the World Cup should
attract more viewers than an F1 season total because it doesn't happen every
year, and there are more matches in the World Cup than there are F1 races in
a season.

BTW, according to this more recent article
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/02/s8546.html
than the one below, F1 total viewership is up to 54 billion per year from 41
in '96.

David G Fisher




> > From this article: http://www.formeleins.de/f118cost.html
> > The FIA released the figures for the F1 television audience in Paris
(Mar
> > '97). The 16 Formula One events in '96 were broadcast, (live or taped)
in
> > 202 countries with an average audience of 2.5 billion viewers, or half
the
> > world's population. In comparison, another popular worldwide event,
> soccer's
> > World Cup, garnered an audience of 32 billion, or 30 percent smaller
than
> > the F1 circuit's 41 billion total. "Formula One is securely stabilished
as
> > the number one television event" declared Max Mosley, FIA president.

> > David G Fisher

> That's hust the World Cup, though, one event. You said 'soccer'. I say it
> again, F1 (popular though it is) is nowhere NEAR as popular as football.


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