rec.autos.simulators

Nice management John

frederickso

Nice management John

by frederickso » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:47:31

You really know how to run things

into the ground

Jan Verschuere

Nice management John

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:58:28

Seeing as he got the ***ing because he existed, rather than for anything
he actually did, I find it offensive you should consider the current
situation to be his fault.

Jan.
=---

Schoone

Nice management John

by Schoone » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:04:20

As an outsider Jan, I think it is from his style and abusive language and
approach.

Running a league is not easy, I run my own hence why I don't run RASCAR, but
it task a firm but respectful approach IMHO.  Cursing people and giving
orders all the time doesn't do a league any good.  Takes a certain
personality to do such an unrewarding task.

Just my 2 cents worth.


John Simmon

Nice management John

by John Simmon » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:21:47



Ya know, no response to this from me is gonna be acceptable, but let
me say this - if you weren't there for the whole show, you have
absolutely no grounds on which to form anything that resembles a
valid or informed opinion.

Jan Verschuere

Nice management John

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:24:44

As an insider, it follows these people should know what John is like. It's
not like he's never ruffled anyone's feathers before for crying out loud!!

I've never really known him to go around the bend unless provoked, so he's
got my vote of confidence.

As a fellow admin (also why I never stepped up to run RASCAR) I know what
you're talking about. I usually manage to keep my cool, but I can assure you
have I have been fairly calleous as well. I actually told the guy that ran
GPVL FV before me to do as he was told or take a walk. He walked (he has
since realised he missed the racing and come back, though <g>). Idem the
server operator (we still run on his server).

It boils down to this, if we don't want to do the donkey work ourselves we
need someone to do it in our place. John is the obvious choice and he's
willing to do it if we do things his way, so we do things his way. End of
story.

Jan.
=---

Brian Farme

Nice management John

by Brian Farme » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:25:13


Seems to me that any blame could be aimed in more than just 1 direction.

Just my (belated) $0.02

-Brian

Schoone

Nice management John

by Schoone » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:31:58

I was merely making a statement from what I have seen in RAS alone, nothing
more.




> > As an outsider Jan, I think it is from his style and abusive language
and
> > approach.

> > Running a league is not easy, I run my own hence why I don't run RASCAR,
but
> > it task a firm but respectful approach IMHO.  Cursing people and giving
> > orders all the time doesn't do a league any good.  Takes a certain
> > personality to do such an unrewarding task.

> Ya know, no response to this from me is gonna be acceptable, but let
> me say this - if you weren't there for the whole show, you have
> absolutely no grounds on which to form anything that resembles a
> valid or informed opinion.

ZZ Busc

Nice management John

by ZZ Busc » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:08:01

I don't believe John has run anything into the ground. In fact I believe he
tried all he could to make RASCAR a good thing.
Unlike a few others that participated in RASCAR, I respect John.
Just so it's known, I've never had a problem with anything he's done.

--
Richard "ZZ" Busch

Member:
Screamers Racing League
OAO
CORS
RASCAR
GPL Rank + 17.415
MoGPL Rank + 318.586
N2002 Rank + 7.695

Gerry Aitke

Nice management John

by Gerry Aitke » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:53:53


> As an outsider Jan, I think it is from his style and abusive language and
> approach.

> Running a league is not easy, I run my own hence why I don't run RASCAR, but
> it task a firm but respectful approach IMHO.  Cursing people and giving
> orders all the time doesn't do a league any good.  Takes a certain
> personality to do such an unrewarding task.

> Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree. BTW, John said he wouldn't allow me to compete in any league he
  was in charge of, after I ticked him off here over something. That
happened even before the conception of RASCAR!

So I claim to be the first person to be banned from a league which
didn't even exist.

Gerry

Mitch_

Nice management John

by Mitch_ » Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:30:39

Eldred youre such a cool guy and Im very un-happy about the turn of events.
I hope you don't think anything Ive ever said went against you or RASCAR
because thats simply not what I ever tried to do.  We may have disagreed on
things but it wasn't ever personal.

What I'd really hope for would be you to continue giving us a server, John
doing the painting, Ed running the site, Jan doing recaps and the rest of us
racing as clean and fun as could be humanly possible.  Thats what I'd
like...

Thanks for ALL you've done and put up with buddy youre a CLASS ACT!

Mitch

Jan Verschuere

Nice management John

by Jan Verschuere » Wed, 27 Aug 2003 02:21:47

Wrong thread Mitch...

Jan.
=---

Peter Ive

Nice management John

by Peter Ive » Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:39:15



Why?  Why does it have to be this way?  There are many ways to skin a
cat.  Why is this the ONLY alternative?

It seemed to me that there were others here who wanted to at least feel
that they were involved in something more than just turning up and
racing every saturday and who were not being given that chance.  Yes, if
John had allowed others some kind of input, it would have taken more
time and effort, but as far as I could see, that was all it was going to
cost.  As of now, it seems to have cost a whole lot more.
--
Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email
If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :)
GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

McWho

Nice management John

by McWho » Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:39:32




<snip>
> It seemed to me that there were others here who wanted to at least feel
> that they were involved in something more than just turning up and
> racing every saturday and who were not being given that chance.  Yes, if
> John had allowed others some kind of input, it would have taken more
> time and effort, but as far as I could see, that was all it was going to
> cost.  As of now, it seems to have cost a whole lot more.
> --

Peter, you have given some good input.
John was listening, he made rules, heard objections, tried his rules on a
test basis and dropped or changed them
I was in a few discussions with John, we debated back and forth, I agreed to
wait and see (see my post in above thread)
John did say on some topics, NO WAY.  The interesting thing is, those same
topics he had the majority behind him.
With one glaring exception (chatting)  John really did have a consensus of
support.
He was just shouted down here, with the help of non-rascar participants.
that is fine that others on ras posted as the discussion was brought here.
I think Mitch did that on purpose in order to get that outside support
because he did not have it on the rascar forum where the majority of the
give and take was happening.

Sean

Peter Ive

Nice management John

by Peter Ive » Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:56:17




>message



><snip>
>> It seemed to me that there were others here who wanted to at least feel
>> that they were involved in something more than just turning up and
>> racing every saturday and who were not being given that chance.  Yes, if
>> John had allowed others some kind of input, it would have taken more
>> time and effort, but as far as I could see, that was all it was going to
>> cost.  As of now, it seems to have cost a whole lot more.
>> --
>Peter, you have given some good input.
>John was listening, he made rules, heard objections, tried his rules on a
>test basis and dropped or changed them
>I was in a few discussions with John, we debated back and forth, I agreed to
>wait and see (see my post in above thread)
>John did say on some topics, NO WAY.  The interesting thing is, those
>same
>topics he had the majority behind him.
>With one glaring exception (chatting)  John really did have a consensus of
>support.
>He was just shouted down here, with the help of non-rascar participants.
>that is fine that others on ras posted as the discussion was brought here.
>I think Mitch did that on purpose in order to get that outside support
>because he did not have it on the rascar forum where the majority of the
>give and take was happening.

Ok Sean, I can see what you're saying.  Perhaps there was more than one
agenda going on here, and some people had a better perspective of
things.  Who knows?   Despite my potentially myopic position, I still
feel this is going to work out for the best, in most cases.  Time will
tell.  :)
--
Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email
If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :)
GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77
John Simmon

Nice management John

by John Simmon » Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:14:25






> >message



> ><snip>
> >> It seemed to me that there were others here who wanted to at least feel
> >> that they were involved in something more than just turning up and
> >> racing every saturday and who were not being given that chance.  Yes, if
> >> John had allowed others some kind of input, it would have taken more
> >> time and effort, but as far as I could see, that was all it was going to
> >> cost.  As of now, it seems to have cost a whole lot more.
> >> --
> >Peter, you have given some good input.
> >John was listening, he made rules, heard objections, tried his rules on a
> >test basis and dropped or changed them
> >I was in a few discussions with John, we debated back and forth, I agreed to
> >wait and see (see my post in above thread)
> >John did say on some topics, NO WAY.  The interesting thing is, those
> >same
> >topics he had the majority behind him.
> >With one glaring exception (chatting)  John really did have a consensus of
> >support.
> >He was just shouted down here, with the help of non-rascar participants.
> >that is fine that others on ras posted as the discussion was brought here.
> >I think Mitch did that on purpose in order to get that outside support
> >because he did not have it on the rascar forum where the majority of the
> >give and take was happening.

> Ok Sean, I can see what you're saying.  Perhaps there was more than one
> agenda going on here, and some people had a better perspective of
> things.  Who knows?   Despite my potentially myopic position, I still
> feel this is going to work out for the best, in most cases.  Time will
> tell.  :)

I would also like to remind everyone (yet again), that my opinion
that all manual chat, as well as any auto-chat that was not directly
related to the race or a driver's status within the race should be
avoided while in the race sessions, is NOT reflected in the rules.
The rules state(d) that *excessive* manual chatting would be
penalized.  I don't see where that could be misconstrued as *all*
manual chatting.

Instead of READING what was on the rules page and UNDERSTANDING what
was written on the rules page, some people saw what they wanted to
see, got mad at what they thought they were going to read if they
went any further, stopped reading, and refused to be talked off the
ledge.

The problem was exacerbated by Mitch and Dave, and once that started,
there really was no hope of having even a semi-sane conversation with
anyone.

Finally, (and before this is brought up again), I did ONE incident
report this season, and it was posted on the forum. I passed no
judgement. I was not abrupt in any way. I think I may have indicated
in one or two places where I think I know what happened, but those
comments were not made in an accusatory tone.  That's the way I was
goin to do all of the race reports starting with last weekend's race
at Bristol. However, things happened that kind of made the whole
exercise irrelevant.

Mitch and Dave were so stirred up and had pushed me so far beyond the
desire to be anything but an ***, that I said "*** it" and I
obliged them. It's unfortunate that others in the league got caught
up in the bullshit.  I figured if I could get rid of Dave and Mitch,
things would have settled down, and we could get back to the task at
hand - racing, and enjoying it again.

But, here we sit...


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