rec.autos.simulators

Because at the time I wrote that, THERE WAS NO ALTERNATIVE. Sorry for
shouting, but how many times do I have to repeat that before it will start
to sink in?

Eldred had allowed John to change the rules in order to try and improve the
races. Two people didn't like that. John didn't want to back down, Eldred
put his head in the sand. What the heck did you want me to do Pete? I run in
5 GPL leagues, managing one of them, 2 NR leagues and work nearly full time.
Do you honestly think I have the time to bring a more balanced solution to
RASCAR?

At the time there was no other server, there was no "group" (I'm still not
sure there is) willing to take over the work of maintaining RASCAR. There
was just two guys having a problem with John being put in a real position of
authority.

The only thing they weren't involved in was giving John the go ahead. Others
provided input and discussed matter with John and either were successfull in
changing his mind or, at the very, least to get him to explain himself. This
discussion was also kept out of RAS, which, in retrospect, might have been a
mistake as outsider support would have been reduced by people seeing the
whole story. It's only when these individuals (already putting their
personal aversion over the issue at hand, IMO) didn't get their way on the
forum, did they come to RAS, ranting and raving and trying to get everybody
to jump on John.

You must remember, at this point in time not one, not a single race had been
run under the _TEST_ ruleset (did you see that word back there?) and John
had not, I say again: NOT, penalized a single driver.

John did listen. He listened to Eldred, he listened to me, he listened to
Sean. He didn't listen to the revolutionists and, in his position, I
wouldn't have listened either. I use an authorative style in my league too
and you just can't afford to succumb to someone flipping their lid like
that. Honestly, can you sit there straight faced and tell me to my face
those posts were "input"?

All that said, I do support their initiative to keep it going 100% (no sense
in fragmenting things). It's just I cannot shake the feeling the gun was
jumped (over here we say "crying before they got smacked", which perhaps
describes the situation better) and that these guys were more motivated by
their personal aversion to John rather than by securing the long term
survival of RASCAR. And I do mean RASCAR, not the RASCAR concept, which was
flawed to begin with due to high novelty factor.

Anyhow, they've finally backed up what they were going on and on about and
we'll see how things go. I'll try my best to help them out and make it work.

Jan.
=---

Of course, some of the guys began to actually target you, but you weren't
exactly trying to move out of the bullets way either, were you? ;-)

Achim

...
...

Achim

...
...

That would be a bit "chickenshit" wouldn't it?  I did what I thought
was right for the group. Why shouldn't I stand completely behind it?

Achim

...
...

There were more of us.  I, for one, chose to resign, as per J.S' "If you don't
like it, leave!" directive.  I don't care for bullies, loudmouths and "over the
phone toughguys" and J.S,  IMHO certainly presents himself as such and, again
IMO seems, oddly enough, to revel in it.

I really had no quarrel at all with the rules, even though I didn't agree with
some of the discussions.  What I had a problem with was the way in which they
were presented.  If your going to talk to people like they are annoying, stupid
and unworthy to make an assesment of the discussion, then you deserve whatever
comes your way.

As my dear, Sainted Mother would say...
"What did you THINK was going to happen?"

Michael

You know, I decided to have a browse of the RASCAR forums on
simracingcentral (and I suggest that there are others here that should
do the same in order to gain or more balanced view) and you are 100%
right.  It was pretty obvious from reading those threads that John was
indeed trying to listen to as many opinions as he could and take them on
board (at least from the threads I read).

I know its akin to 'closing the door after the horse has bolted', but I
feel I owe him an apology for being one of the most vocal about how much
it appeared that he had just usurped RASCAR without any regard for the
views of others.

Because we on ras were only seeing half the picture it was way too easy
to see John as the only one at fault here.  I'm not saying that he was
without fault (there were a few occasions here that could possibly have
been dealt with in a more circumspect manner), but the original
accusation seems to have been without complete substance.

For my own mitigation, however, there is one thing I don't quite
understand, though.  Why, oh why, didn't someone else just speak up,
nay, shout out loud, 'Hold on a minute.  Before you all start hurling
abuse in John's direction, take a look on racesimcentral and see what's
really going on.'  All we were seeing was John telling people to put up
or shut up, which just compounded things, surely.

Anyways, sorry about criticising you so adamantly, John.  You didn't
deserve it.
--
Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email
If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :)
GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

But Serously folks! (RASCAR)

Ok,
Reality check all.   Much of what John says is true.  Point in fact.
John made a new rule and associated penalties for not obeying this rule.  I
objected as well as several others.
This all happened on the RSC website forum and went on throughout the day
until the conversation moved over here to RAS.   More input here for sure.
Now, I will take some credit for having had a rational discussion on this
topic, though certainly not all because of me, John has adjusted the penalty
for this new rule to one that I personally can live with.  A stop and go
instead of a suspension.   This is living proof that John is willing to
compromise and work through these issues with us all.
That my friends is as close to democracy as we should expect to get.
John, I continue to support your efforts and thank you for listening.

Sean

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--