rec.autos.simulators

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

Richard Walke

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Richard Walke » Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:00:00



I've been saying the same sort of thing for a long time. Unfortunately I
don't see this coming from Papyrus or any other outfit owned by the large
publishers where the bottom line is all important. Taking your Ferrari
example, would they have ever been able to build up their mystique if they
had been owned by Fiat back in the fifties? What I think is more likely is
if a company can start out with the intention of serving the "***"
community. Using the sports car company analogy, maybe a Caterham?

Cheers,
Richard

Eldre

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Eldre » Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:00:00


writes:

I don't agree.  There are THOUSANDS of people still running DOS 3.3 or so, and
getting along just fine.  Nobody FORCES you to upgrade if you don't want to.
I've decided to hold off on buying N3, at least until the price comes down.  So
your friend has N3.  Guess what?  The world won't end if you don't buy it!  Ask
him to still race you on N99.  Or don't - your CHOICE.  If you REALLY have so
little control of your life that you HAVE to buy N3, then you have more
problems than the fact it doesn't suit your 'wants'...

Eldred

__
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting?
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Peter Ive

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Peter Ive » Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Hey, Bob just read your interesting post, but there are several points
that I disagree with to warrant a reply.  So...

What's wrong with being disappointed. "You can please some of the people
all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't
please all of the people all of the time."  Heard that before.  I'm sure
that there have been times in your life when something has disappointed
you and I doubt whether being expected to "put up or shut up" in such
situations would have gone down too well.

You say that all these people are doing is posting these "N3 really
sucks" posts?  From what I've read, most disappointed people who have
posted here have gone on to explain why they're disappointed. I mean is
it ok to have "N3 is really great" posts.

You also said that if these people had taken the trouble to find out
more about the product then they wouldn't have put themselves in this
position.  Well, I've got news for you, not everyone has the time,
drive, foresight, whatever to find out about a game in advance of it
coming out.  And besides, where did you get all this insight, the only
place I read anything about the up and coming N3 was through this ng.
What am I supposed to do?  Trawl through the nets every last orifice
until I come across something pertinent.

Indeed it was clear that there was no GPL physics, although it was
mentioned that the physics engine was being improved upon.  However,
this doesn't seem to be the case and it just proves that information
about what is in a game prior to its release is generally just
speculation and it is not until the game comes out that people can see
for themselves what it is really like.  It doesn't matter how much is
written about a game prior to its release - all those it's gonna have
this and gonna do that count for nought - it will never tell the whole
story.  The only way to get decent feedback on what a game is really
like is to hear from people that have actually played it and that is
why, since N3 has come out and we have a more informed and broader view
of the game, that I am only now quite aware of what I will be getting
when it finally goes on release here in the UK, and despite the negative
aspects of N3, there are enough positives in there to make me want this
game.

One more thing.  Why wasn't a demo put out for this game?  Surely this
would have given all of us the opportunity to find out for ourselves
whether the game was a significant improvement of the previous versions
and would certainly have given more opportunity for those "whiners" to
find out for themselves instead of having to wait to purchase the game.

Just an opinion, of course. ;-)
--
Peter Ives

Larr

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Larr » Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I would have still bought it.

-larry


> When one has experienced the realism of a one year-old Papyrus product and
> the realism of a brand-new product is of a lower order then one is bound
for
> disappointment.

> It would be interesting to have seen how many people would have bought N3
if
> Papyrus had made a demo available a month ago.

> BK



> > Well said, Bob.

> > I just said myself recently that r.a.s. is one of the only places in the
> > world that N3 could get a beating for not being realistic enough.

> > jeff

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Doug Schneide

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Doug Schneide » Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Me! Me! Me too!

            Zog


> I would have still bought it.

> -larry



> > When one has experienced the realism of a one year-old Papyrus product and
> > the realism of a brand-new product is of a lower order then one is bound
> for
> > disappointment.

> > It would be interesting to have seen how many people would have bought N3
> if
> > Papyrus had made a demo available a month ago.

> > BK



> > > Well said, Bob.

> > > I just said myself recently that r.a.s. is one of the only places in the
> > > world that N3 could get a beating for not being realistic enough.

> > > jeff

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Bruce Kennewel

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Bruce Kennewel » Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Fair enough...but I wonder how many _wouldn't_ have bought it?  (Just a
rhetorical question).


> Me! Me! Me too!

>             Zog


> > I would have still bought it.

> > -larry



> > > When one has experienced the realism of a one year-old Papyrus product
and
> > > the realism of a brand-new product is of a lower order then one is
bound
> > for
> > > disappointment.

> > > It would be interesting to have seen how many people would have bought
N3
> > if
> > > Papyrus had made a demo available a month ago.

> > > BK



> > > > Well said, Bob.

> > > > I just said myself recently that r.a.s. is one of the only places in
the
> > > > world that N3 could get a beating for not being realistic enough.

> > > > jeff

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World!
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Servers
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Doug

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Doug » Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:00:00

People like you are what bothers me!!   "I for one would be happy to pay
$200.00..." blah blah blah.
Don't you ever read what you post?!  Sure... pay 200.00 dollars for a great
sim, you'll be the ONLY person playing it because I am not going to spend
200 dollars on a piece of software that simply wastes my time.
I guess I have my head where the sun doesn't shine because I spend alot of
money on my computer simply to enjoy that 50.00 dollar game a bit more.  But
I'll NEVER spend that much  money on the game.  Gee, let's spend 200.00
dollars on a great sim, oh gee, I can't afford to buy that steering wheel or
that great sound card so I guess I'll just play that 200.00 dollar game
using my keyboard to steer and not have any sound.

And remember the next time you 'complain' about the 'complainers'.  If
people didn't speak out about what they didn't like, we would never see a
product become what it is today.
I used to *** and complain that I wanted smoke in NASCAR 99... I wanted it
to look like the scene from "Days Of Thunder".  Someone eventually heard my
cries and implemented it in.

I will continue to *** and moan about it... you will NEVER find a great
sim... only a better one!!!

<SNIP>

Marko Viitane

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Marko Viitane » Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Doug kirjoitti viestiss? ...

No, no, no no no.....GPL IS great! ;)

....Just like F1GP, GP2 and revs+ were when they came. It's just question of
"which one lasts longer"...I think GP2 is holding the all time record and
GPL is the champ of 1998-1999....well that's how I see it ;)

PS. I like Nascar racing too, but it's so.....slo-mo and "easy"...it's not
the beast I want :P

Thomas Enterprise

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Thomas Enterprise » Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:00:00


> People like you are what bothers me!!   "I for one would be happy to pay
> $200.00..." blah blah blah.
> Don't you ever read what you post?!

<snipped a bunch of drivel>

If everyone followed your philosphy then we sure woudlnt see any quality
equipment on the market would we? Why do you find it so difficult to part with
your (I'm sure hard earned money) for a quality sim when you would gladly pay a
large amount for the latest video card or whatever?

Obviously you dont think that the people who bring us a quality sim that gives
us thousands of hours of entertainment dont deserve to amply rewarded for thier
efforts?

Fortunately for the makers of such quality simulators as X Plane, there are a
few of us who consider $200.00 for a great piece of software, a bargain.

Todd Dr

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Todd Dr » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I'd pay $1000 but it had better be the mother of all racing sims.  If you
think about it as entertainment value (cost/hours played) $50 is way too
little to pay for quality.  At the $50 price point sometimes you win big
(GPL, F1GP, GP2) and sometimes you lose (CPR).

But I think the thread is about too much pointless ***ing and whining in
RAS.  Which I agree is a problem.  What's the point of 500 messages a day
when only 2 or so are even worth reading?  My time is far more valuable than
that.  Of course this seems to be the direction of the internet as a whole,
the good information is still there but now you have to wade through several
layers of ***to get it.



> > People like you are what bothers me!!   "I for one would be happy to pay
> > $200.00..." blah blah blah.
> > Don't you ever read what you post?!

> <snipped a bunch of drivel>

> If everyone followed your philosphy then we sure woudlnt see any quality
> equipment on the market would we? Why do you find it so difficult to part
with
> your (I'm sure hard earned money) for a quality sim when you would gladly
pay a
> large amount for the latest video card or whatever?

> Obviously you dont think that the people who bring us a quality sim that
gives
> us thousands of hours of entertainment dont deserve to amply rewarded for
thier
> efforts?

> Fortunately for the makers of such quality simulators as X Plane, there
are a
> few of us who consider $200.00 for a great piece of software, a bargain.

Doug

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Doug » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

1,000.00?!?!?!  Are you nuts?!?!?
Yes.. it WOULD be the mother of all sims. It would be an actual YUGO!!!!

You're nutty Todd.  I don't even pay that much for my computer when I
upgrade it.  Basically, what you are saying is that you want something to
match reality.  Well... I hate to tell you but this will never happen.. at
least not in our lifetime.  For the price you would probably pay to have the
ultimate sim.. you could buy yourself weeks worth of racing at Skip Barber
Racing School!!!   It just ain't gonna happen.


Todd Dr

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Todd Dr » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right?  At $50 for a
good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider price
vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other
entertainment available to us.  Don't tell them though ;-)

Yes, I am nutty.  Certifiable even, but that's off topic.  And yes, I want
something to match reality because I really, really, wish, like many of us
here I suppose, that I were a <insert favorite racing series> driver.  But I
wasn't born into the right family, I'm too old, too nutty, physically too
large (more like a linebacker), and not wealthy.  However, none of that
changes the fact that I wish I were a racing driver, so I race sims and I
want my sim to be as realistic as it possibly can be.


> 1,000.00?!?!?!  Are you nuts?!?!?
> Yes.. it WOULD be the mother of all sims. It would be an actual YUGO!!!!

> You're nutty Todd.  I don't even pay that much for my computer when I
> upgrade it.  Basically, what you are saying is that you want something to
> match reality.  Well... I hate to tell you but this will never happen.. at
> least not in our lifetime.  For the price you would probably pay to have
the
> ultimate sim.. you could buy yourself weeks worth of racing at Skip Barber
> Racing School!!!   It just ain't gonna happen.



> > I'd pay $1000 but it had better be the mother of all racing sims.  If
you
> > think about it as entertainment value (cost/hours played) $50 is way too
> > little to pay for quality.  At the $50 price point sometimes you win big
> > (GPL, F1GP, GP2) and sometimes you lose (CPR).

> > But I think the thread is about too much pointless ***ing and whining
in
> > RAS.  Which I agree is a problem.  What's the point of 500 messages a
day
> > when only 2 or so are even worth reading?  My time is far more valuable
> than
> > that.  Of course this seems to be the direction of the internet as a
> whole,
> > the good information is still there but now you have to wade through
> several
> > layers of ***to get it.

teeho

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by teeho » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00



 If it's a good sim (meaning, it's great, little to no bugs, etc.),
another way to look at it is, sell the sim cheaper. Lower price
usually sells more product.  

 GP2 was/is a very stable and good racing sim, and he never had to
patch it. It's sold -so- many copies, Crammond doesn't have to make
GP3..<g>.

 When released, GP2 could have sold for much less, and would have
still made lots of money.

 I guess it all depends if the game/sim is very well made, or, umm,
(what's the word I'm looking for.., ohhh), sucks..<g>.

 Matt

-Teehole

Bruce Kennewel

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Get a grip on reality, man, before it's too late!!!


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Bruce Kennewel

The ME! ME! ME! Syndrome

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00

"ripping the publisher off"????!!!!
Yeah...._THAT_ will be the day!! :o)


> Ok, maybe $1000 is a bit strong but you get the point, right?  At $50 for
a
> good sim we are basically ripping the publisher off if you consider price
> vs. entertainment hours when compared against the cost of other
> entertainment available to us.  Don't tell them though ;-)

> Yes, I am nutty.  Certifiable even, but that's off topic.  And yes, I want
> something to match reality because I really, really, wish, like many of us
> here I suppose, that I were a <insert favorite racing series> driver.  But
I
> wasn't born into the right family, I'm too old, too nutty, physically too
> large (more like a linebacker), and not wealthy.  However, none of that
> changes the fact that I wish I were a racing driver, so I race sims and I
> want my sim to be as realistic as it possibly can be.



> > 1,000.00?!?!?!  Are you nuts?!?!?
> > Yes.. it WOULD be the mother of all sims. It would be an actual YUGO!!!!

> > You're nutty Todd.  I don't even pay that much for my computer when I
> > upgrade it.  Basically, what you are saying is that you want something
to
> > match reality.  Well... I hate to tell you but this will never happen..
at
> > least not in our lifetime.  For the price you would probably pay to have
> the
> > ultimate sim.. you could buy yourself weeks worth of racing at Skip
Barber
> > Racing School!!!   It just ain't gonna happen.



> > > I'd pay $1000 but it had better be the mother of all racing sims.  If
> you
> > > think about it as entertainment value (cost/hours played) $50 is way
too
> > > little to pay for quality.  At the $50 price point sometimes you win
big
> > > (GPL, F1GP, GP2) and sometimes you lose (CPR).

> > > But I think the thread is about too much pointless ***ing and
whining
> in
> > > RAS.  Which I agree is a problem.  What's the point of 500 messages a
> day
> > > when only 2 or so are even worth reading?  My time is far more
valuable
> > than
> > > that.  Of course this seems to be the direction of the internet as a
> > whole,
> > > the good information is still there but now you have to wade through
> > several
> > > layers of ***to get it.

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