rec.autos.simulators

by **Steve Sarll** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I was in a race at Dega. There were 4 cars in the lead draft with 2
laps left. We were on the back straight and I had gotten a run on the
leader who had been running a very low line the whole race. I got
under him but was partially on the apron. I was completely beside
him. Door to Door. Front bumpers even. I moved up slightly so that
I would have all 4 tires on the track when we entered T3. He didn't
move and I spun onto the apron and wrecked into the outside wall. As
I spun low he had plenty of opportunity to recover and continue which
he did. I have no problem with folks running a low line. My question
is:
Should he have moved up to at least give me the bottom lane or should
I have backed off and fell in behind him and tried around the outside?

Thank You
Steve-S

by **Michael Horto** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

IMHO you should've backed off. He held his line and as the leader that was
well within his rights. You knew you'd have problems staying on the apron
and tried to force him to change his line. That said, it also depends on the
guy in the car next to you. If it had been me I probably would've moved up
to give you some room but that's the way I drive <G>

--
Michael Horton
http://www.bus.nait.ab.ca/staff/mikeh/gpl/
Home of the GPL F2/F3 Hotlaps

by **Aaron Gillu** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I think it depends on what you mean by "partially on the apron".

If you are running a steady low line that happens to nip the apron now and
then, I think you are fine.

On the other hand, I think a good rule of thumb is that an unsafe line never
has the right of way. Driving with half the car on the apron and half on
the track would be pretty damn unsafe!

--
Aaron Gillum
RDOS Director of Operations
http://www.racing-design.com/rdos Now Accepting Applications!

--
"You could have been paid to read this message. www.getpaid4.com/?bargler "

by **Chag Roger** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

My biggest pet peive is guys driving that stupid low line, sheesh it's ok to
get passed. This is why I never run dega pickup(pickup in general) because
you have all these knuckleheads driving like that. In my opinion it's his
fault, because to pass him at all you have to take crazy chances. On the
last lap or two perhaps it's ok to block, but the whole race cmon people.

ChadRogers
chadliz

> I think it depends on what you mean by "partially on the apron".

> If you are running a steady low line that happens to nip the apron now and
> then, I think you are fine.

> On the other hand, I think a good rule of thumb is that an unsafe line
never
> has the right of way. Driving with half the car on the apron and half on
> the track would be pretty damn unsafe!

> --
> Aaron Gillum
> RDOS Director of Operations
> http://www.racing-design.com/rdos Now Accepting Applications!

> --
> "You could have been paid to read this message. www.getpaid4.com/?bargler
"

> > I was in a race at Dega. There were 4 cars in the lead draft with 2
> > laps left. We were on the back straight and I had gotten a run on the
> > leader who had been running a very low line the whole race. I got
> > under him but was partially on the apron. I was completely beside
> > him. Door to Door. Front bumpers even. I moved up slightly so that
> > I would have all 4 tires on the track when we entered T3. He didn't
> > move and I spun onto the apron and wrecked into the outside wall. As
> > I spun low he had plenty of opportunity to recover and continue which
> > he did. I have no problem with folks running a low line. My question
> > is:
> > Should he have moved up to at least give me the bottom lane or should
> > I have backed off and fell in behind him and tried around the outside?

> > Thank You
> > Steve-S

by **Leaky_Valv** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Steve, you've acted as judge, jury and executioner with your statement "I
moved up slightly......".
You tried a move which effectively placed you at a point lower than the
racing line and you suffered the consequences.

> I was in a race at Dega. There were 4 cars in the lead draft with 2
> laps left. We were on the back straight and I had gotten a run on the
> leader who had been running a very low line the whole race. I got
> under him but was partially on the apron. I was completely beside
> him. Door to Door. Front bumpers even. I moved up slightly so that
> I would have all 4 tires on the track when we entered T3. He didn't
> move and I spun onto the apron and wrecked into the outside wall. As
> I spun low he had plenty of opportunity to recover and continue which
> he did. I have no problem with folks running a low line. My question
> is:
> Should he have moved up to at least give me the bottom lane or should
> I have backed off and fell in behind him and tried around the outside?

> Thank You
> Steve-S

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by **Kenny L** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

IMHO, It is next to impossible to enter turns at Talladega on the apron and get away
with it. You may flirt with the apron, but not more than that. Also, the leader has no
obligation to give you room and position. It may have been the wise thing to do, since
YOU put both in a risky situation. If I was the lead car, and someone got under me on
the apron, I would move up to avoid the iminent crash. I am one of those who will drive
the bottom line when there are few laps left and the win is at stake, cause at
Talladega, ya gotta protect the bottom and make the other guy go on the high side if you
want to keep first place.
--
Kenny L.
#14 Generic Chevy
PRC Member
Wall Scrapers Racing Team

by **The Enigmatic O** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

He wasn't Rusty Wallace and you aren't Jeff Gordon, that's for sure.

-Tim

by **ymenar** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

When this happens, give them a nudge or two. They will learn fast to not do
it.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **ymenar** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

It's actually very, very possible. Many of us can do it easily, go down the
apron all the way (you know.. the car will tilt in a bizarre way when this
happens). You just need to have a good setup for that. Of course you will
not really gain an advantage if the car above has a good group draft, since
you will be slower down there. Still, the art of "apron passing" is
something that many of us are known to do, I for one.

Just learn how to tweak your setup correctly to do it.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Intimidato** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

>> IMHO, It is next to impossible to enter turns at Talladega on the apron
>and get away
>> with it. You may flirt with the apron, but not more than that

>It's actually very, very possible. Many of us can do it easily, go down the
>apron all the way (you know.. the car will tilt in a bizarre way when this
>happens). You just need to have a good setup for that. Of course you will
>not really gain an advantage if the car above has a good group draft, since
>you will be slower down there. Still, the art of "apron passing" is
>something that many of us are known to do, I for one.

>Just learn how to tweak your setup correctly to do it.

WOW! You're awesome, man. You're higly skilled in the art of "apron
passing." Fantastic. Seriously though, gimme a break....the art of
"apron passing?" LOL!!!!!!

by **Eldre** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

> I was in a race at Dega. There were 4 cars in the lead draft with 2
>laps left. We were on the back straight and I had gotten a run on the
>leader who had been running a very low line the whole race. I got
>under him but was partially on the apron. I was completely beside
>him. Door to Door. Front bumpers even. I moved up slightly so that
>I would have all 4 tires on the track when we entered T3. He didn't
>move and I spun onto the apron and wrecked into the outside wall. As
>I spun low he had plenty of opportunity to recover and continue which
>he did. I have no problem with folks running a low line. My question
>is:
>Should he have moved up to at least give me the bottom lane or should
>I have backed off and fell in behind him and tried around the outside?

> Thank You
> Steve-S

Sorry you wrecked, but I'd say you should have backed off. If the other guy
has the racing line, he's entitled to it. It's the passing driver's
responsibility to complete the pass safely. As long as he didn't cut down on
you, he didn't do anything wrong, IMHO.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

>My biggest pet peive is guys driving that stupid low line, sheesh it's ok to
>get passed. This is why I never run dega pickup(pickup in general) because
>you have all these knuckleheads driving like that. In my opinion it's his
>fault, because to pass him at all you have to take crazy chances. On the
>last lap or two perhaps it's ok to block, but the whole race cmon people.

>ChadRogers
>chadliz

Why are they wrong? Should they just move out of your way so you can pass?
That's not racing. If your better and/or faster, you should still be able to
get by safely...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Kenny L** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

So, you can enter turn 3 (at Talladega) at 205 mph, with 4 tires on the apron, and
safely pull of a pass?
I can do it with two tires but not four.

--
Kenny L.
#14 Generic Chevy
PRC Member
Wall Scrapers Racing Team

> >> IMHO, It is next to impossible to enter turns at Talladega on the apron
> >and get away
> >> with it. You may flirt with the apron, but not more than that

> >It's actually very, very possible. Many of us can do it easily, go down the
> >apron all the way (you know.. the car will tilt in a bizarre way when this
> >happens). You just need to have a good setup for that. Of course you will
> >not really gain an advantage if the car above has a good group draft, since
> >you will be slower down there. Still, the art of "apron passing" is
> >something that many of us are known to do, I for one.

> >Just learn how to tweak your setup correctly to do it.

by **Michael P. Mabre** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

You found the key word, Kenny. He didn't say he could do it "safely."
Frank is well known for his dangerous passes. Sometimes they work (if the
guy he's passing cares about finishing the race and gets out of the way) and
sometimes they don't (if the guy he's passing doesn't care about finishing
any more than he does.)

Frankie, he asked a simple etiquette question. No need to start shoveling,
just give him an answer to his question.

Mike

>So, you can enter turn 3 (at Talladega) at 205 mph, with 4 tires on the
apron, and
>safely pull of a pass?
>I can do it with two tires but not four.

by **ymenar** » Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Well of course Mike :)

Me, really ? ;-) It's just the way we drive. Our God is named
Schumacher, and by applying his F1 techniques on a oval circuit it does some
pretty bizarre things. Tell that to Pekka, he loves dangerous passes also :)

Btw that WINvite Phoenix last Friday.. none of the 7cautions were my fault.
Amazing eh? :)

You remember the Dega race with the 4car lead draft where I on purpose
stayed at the tail of the group ? I won that race hmm.. but it was quite
boring waiting for the last lap to make a move.

It's r.a.s. Mike, I wouldn't had answered that way elsewhere, but here the
rules are a little different. It was a quite funny post that I had to
reply, considering yesterday we had a conversation on Won.net about apron
passing and how it's different in N3 compared to the NROS. I simply said
that it's possible when you tweak the setup that way. It's difficult
because you will be slower if lower, so the person your passing has a good
drafting group, it's useless.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

rec.autos.simulators

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