rec.autos.simulators

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

Tony Rickar

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Tony Rickar » Fri, 06 May 2005 07:54:41


> > The reality is the transporter didn't delay anything. The sim engine was
> > still in development which meant the graphics development could not take
> > place until ready. So the transporter was done in slack time.

> They should have a crapload of transporters done by now then...

In a sense, yes. Tony, who produced the transporter went on to work on
another project, Virtual RC, whilst Chris worked on the physics engine.

I would suggest Ashley has inside knowledge he is unable to share with us
right now. In my view they have got their communication wrong twice. First
by giving too much too early, then by saying nothing, but like I said once
burnt...

John Simmon

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by John Simmon » Fri, 06 May 2005 11:23:39


says...

I don't reply in context to anonymous posts.  Tell us who you are, and
I'll hold a conversation with you.

Remco Moed

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Remco Moed » Fri, 06 May 2005 15:50:02


>Another one who cant tell the difference between one product and starting
>from scratch on an all new one. What the hell does it matter.

Well, Mr. Anonymous....At first I can't imagine they emptied their
brains when they started RL, and second starting from scratch didn't
seem to hinder them when coming up with a estimated release date....

Cheers!

Remco




>>>Anything that annoys the prat Kennewell gets my support. 3 Years idiot get
>>>your facts right.

>> Well, didn't they spent 5 years before that on WSC?

>> Cheers!

>> Remco



>>>> "Takes time"?
>>>> "TAKES TIME"?!!!
>>>> Four ***y years for a simulation and still nothing to show for it!

>>>> All I can add is that if it ever sees the light of day, to use your
>>>> theory
>>>> it'll be the greatest thing since Moses parted the Red Sea, mate!

>>>> Gimme a break.

Tony Rickar

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Tony Rickar » Fri, 06 May 2005 17:00:45


> Lastly, I've been a programmer for over 25 years, and I've turned out a
> number of fairly huge applications from 175,000 lines of code to well
> over 750,000 (sorry, I don't know the metric equivalent - grin).  These
> guys are taking too freakin long to come up with a product.

That reminds me, John, how is Duke Nukem Forever coming along :)
John Simmon

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by John Simmon » Fri, 06 May 2005 18:26:43




> > Lastly, I've been a programmer for over 25 years, and I've turned out a
> > number of fairly huge applications from 175,000 lines of code to well
> > over 750,000 (sorry, I don't know the metric equivalent - grin).  These
> > guys are taking too freakin long to come up with a product.

> That reminds me, John, how is Duke Nukem Forever coming along :)

I gave up on it because none of the other programmers could understand
why I'd want a different super-detailed 3-D race hauler in every map. :)
Tony Rickar

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Tony Rickar » Fri, 06 May 2005 18:42:15


> > That reminds me, John, how is Duke Nukem Forever coming along :)

> I gave up on it because none of the other programmers could understand
> why I'd want a different super-detailed 3-D race hauler in every map. :)

Killer punch - ouch :)
Bruce Kennewel

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 06 May 2005 20:08:25

Breathing is an involuntary action, you cretin; we don't have to manage it.

Bruce.


Jaspe

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Jaspe » Sat, 07 May 2005 00:59:08

I kinda suspect that was the point :O) Never mind, seems people just like to
wind oen another up on here.


> Breathing is an involuntary action, you cretin; we don't have to manage
> it.

> Bruce.



>> If you havnt got the intelligence to differentiate between one product
>> and
> a
>> totally new product then I wonder how you manage to breathe.

jason moye

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by jason moye » Sat, 07 May 2005 02:54:44


> We've erected the better part of a friggin' SPACE STATION in that
period of
> time.  I realize they don't have to be concerned with tire wear or
physics,
> but I'm quiet sure the GRIP issue is a ***...

Not to nitpick, but the design of the international space station
started nearly 30 years ago.  I'm not sure that would be a very good
turnaround for a racing simulation.
Larr

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Larr » Sat, 07 May 2005 06:03:04

They are trying :)

-Larry



>> We've erected the better part of a friggin' SPACE STATION in that
> period of
>> time.  I realize they don't have to be concerned with tire wear or
> physics,
>> but I'm quiet sure the GRIP issue is a ***...

> Not to nitpick, but the design of the international space station
> started nearly 30 years ago.  I'm not sure that would be a very good
> turnaround for a racing simulation.

Asgeir Nesoe

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Asgeir Nesoe » Sat, 07 May 2005 15:57:10

lol

--A--


Asgeir Nesoe

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Asgeir Nesoe » Sat, 07 May 2005 16:19:26

The thing is: Internet is a tremendous resource, but it requires a great
deal of management for anything good to come out of it.

I am absolutely sure RAS, as a group, has the best beta test
capabilities on the planet since we combine sim racing, real racing and
computer knowledge to great extents.

However, this group is also some of the most anarchistic and chaotic
group imaginable, and in order to include RAS in *any* communication
strategy, you'll have to set aside the resources to filter, massage, and
write messages to the group.

And this is a resource development teams don't see worthwhile, because
they're already on the edge budgetwise. And a developer cannot take on
the chore, since the last thing a developer wants is noise, constant and
loud.

But I still firmly believe that the very nature of internet makes RAS
the ultimate beta team. And the very nature of internet makes the same
resource void. Much like us humans, innit? Full of contradictions.

Internet has it's best chance of success when you gather committed
persons, and block out all the noise, like sourceforge.

---A---




>>>.... It is not surprising the developers huddle with their private
>>>groups behind their NDAs until they are ready to go public with the
>>>finished article..

>>What a shame that Messrs West didn't do the same.
>>(They probably wish that they HAD done so!)

> I guess the point is I believe they are now. Once burnt and all that...

Asgeir Nesoe

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Asgeir Nesoe » Sat, 07 May 2005 16:30:19

"Mythbusters" is an excellent program, and I am truly confident they'd
get to the bottom of things.

Usually they find a myth to be untrue, so we have two alternatives here:
Myth 1: There is no RL, and there is no or next to no development taking
place
Myth 2: RL

:-)

---A---


> I think "Mythbusters" needs to have a go at this one,

> Bruce.



>>So far it's a bit wait and see.

Tim Epstei

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by Tim Epstei » Sat, 07 May 2005 20:55:26


I agree with you that the skills within this group would make for a fine
technical beta feedback group. However, this is not the type of group that I
would approach if I were seeking feedback for commercial success. This group
is highly atypical when compared with the typical purchaser of computer
games/sims.

1. The people here tend to be highly technically skilled, whilst most games
require simplicity and ease of use as prime criteria for commercial success.

2. The peple here tend to be of a older mean age  group that the typical
gamer or even sim racer. This is purely speculation, but is based on what I
feel is a solid argument. Newsgroups are ancient technology in the Internet
era, and most people using them have been doing so for more than 10 years
(i.e. prior to the web revolution).

3. Eye candy and great marketing, combined with retail penetration is a
better selling point than technical superiority - compare RBR with CMR for
example. I don't know the numbers but expect that CMR has outsold RBR at
least 10 fold - probably more like 100 fold.

The reality is that hard core sim racing is and will remain niche for the
considerable future, thus severely restricting the number of titles
available. Why was there no GPL 2 considering the overwhelming cries from
the sim community? The short answer is that it wasn't commercialy viable,
and the voices heard were the very loud minority.

I expect that many people here earn decent money, or are prepared to spend
considerably more on their hardware in terms of percent of disposable income
compared to the casual gamer, as they conisder sim racing to be a primary
"hobby" more than entertainment. As such, why not spend more on software? I
think that the Wests had a good idea when it came to charging a premium for
their product, as well as additional charges for each new track and/or car.

Maybe the powers that be in the commercial *** world should be lobbied to
introduce a new business model for racing sims: forget the standard shop
price for sims and charge at least $100 per title and more for additional
tracks and cars. I would even go so far as to suggest charging for online
racing.

Tim

> And this is a resource development teams don't see worthwhile, because
> they're already on the edge budgetwise. And a developer cannot take on the
> chore, since the last thing a developer wants is noise, constant and loud.

> But I still firmly believe that the very nature of internet makes RAS the
> ultimate beta team. And the very nature of internet makes the same
> resource void. Much like us humans, innit? Full of contradictions.

> Internet has it's best chance of success when you gather committed
> persons, and block out all the noise, like sourceforge.

> ---A---




>>>>.... It is not surprising the developers huddle with their private
>>>>groups behind their NDAs until they are ready to go public with the
>>>>finished article..

>>>What a shame that Messrs West didn't do the same.
>>>(They probably wish that they HAD done so!)

>> I guess the point is I believe they are now. Once burnt and all that...

schoone

Racing Legends - PPU compatibility?

by schoone » Sat, 07 May 2005 21:03:47

"Maybe the powers that be in the commercial *** world should be lobbied
to
introduce a new business model for racing sims: forget the standard shop
price for sims and charge at least $100 per title and more for additional
tracks and cars. I would even go so far as to suggest charging for online
racing."

Big risk for little payoff.  Reality is why bother.  The niche is small and
very hard to win over.  it is much easier to make a mass market arcade title
for a console.  Even if it does poorly it will still outsell a pure sim in
volume.

But with that said you basically just stated what FIRSTRACING is planning to
do, charge for online racing.  So far the concept has had a cold reception
at best.




>> The thing is: Internet is a tremendous resource, but it requires a great
>> deal of management for anything good to come out of it.

>> I am absolutely sure RAS, as a group, has the best beta test capabilities
>> on the planet since we combine sim racing, real racing and computer
>> knowledge to great extents.

>> However, this group is also some of the most anarchistic and chaotic
>> group imaginable, and in order to include RAS in *any* communication
>> strategy, you'll have to set aside the resources to filter, massage, and
>> write messages to the group.

> I agree with you that the skills within this group would make for a fine
> technical beta feedback group. However, this is not the type of group that
> I would approach if I were seeking feedback for commercial success. This
> group is highly atypical when compared with the typical purchaser of
> computer games/sims.

> 1. The people here tend to be highly technically skilled, whilst most
> games require simplicity and ease of use as prime criteria for commercial
> success.

> 2. The peple here tend to be of a older mean age  group that the typical
> gamer or even sim racer. This is purely speculation, but is based on what
> I feel is a solid argument. Newsgroups are ancient technology in the
> Internet era, and most people using them have been doing so for more than
> 10 years (i.e. prior to the web revolution).

> 3. Eye candy and great marketing, combined with retail penetration is a
> better selling point than technical superiority - compare RBR with CMR for
> example. I don't know the numbers but expect that CMR has outsold RBR at
> least 10 fold - probably more like 100 fold.

> The reality is that hard core sim racing is and will remain niche for the
> considerable future, thus severely restricting the number of titles
> available. Why was there no GPL 2 considering the overwhelming cries from
> the sim community? The short answer is that it wasn't commercialy viable,
> and the voices heard were the very loud minority.

> I expect that many people here earn decent money, or are prepared to spend
> considerably more on their hardware in terms of percent of disposable
> income compared to the casual gamer, as they conisder sim racing to be a
> primary "hobby" more than entertainment. As such, why not spend more on
> software? I think that the Wests had a good idea when it came to charging
> a premium for their product, as well as additional charges for each new
> track and/or car.

> Maybe the powers that be in the commercial *** world should be lobbied
> to introduce a new business model for racing sims: forget the standard
> shop price for sims and charge at least $100 per title and more for
> additional tracks and cars. I would even go so far as to suggest charging
> for online racing.

> Tim

>> And this is a resource development teams don't see worthwhile, because
>> they're already on the edge budgetwise. And a developer cannot take on
>> the chore, since the last thing a developer wants is noise, constant and
>> loud.

>> But I still firmly believe that the very nature of internet makes RAS the
>> ultimate beta team. And the very nature of internet makes the same
>> resource void. Much like us humans, innit? Full of contradictions.

>> Internet has it's best chance of success when you gather committed
>> persons, and block out all the noise, like sourceforge.

>> ---A---




>>>>>.... It is not surprising the developers huddle with their private
>>>>>groups behind their NDAs until they are ready to go public with the
>>>>>finished article..

>>>>What a shame that Messrs West didn't do the same.
>>>>(They probably wish that they HAD done so!)

>>> I guess the point is I believe they are now. Once burnt and all that...


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