rec.autos.simulators

Appologies to those few I have ever taken off, or caused to slow down during
a race. Not many, since I am fairly new to vroc. It won't happen again
outside of the servers I know from my league. Not untill I too have a
sub -20 Rank and can drive consistently at those times without crashing a
single time in 100 laps. Oh wait, would that then make me an Alien/Hotlapper
and not wanted either?

Joakim,  exVroc Racer

<snip>

Now this is stupid.

Everybody makes mistakes sometimes and everybody crashes sometimes.
Happens in real life too, ever watched Nascar or F1?

Tom stated that 'aliens' are -worse- drivers than slower drivers.
Where did you draw the conclusion that 'newbies' are not welcome and
that it's unforgivable if you take someone else out during a crash?

The only rule is to use your head during a race. Don't try to go from
20th place to 1st place at the start, never overtake someone in the
chicane at Monaco, and keep more distance than usual because of
warping... it's really simple actually.

Andre

I didn't actually, because that is not what I know to be true. I just think
the discussion came to a level were one could actually come to believe that
if you cannot stay on track and out of the way, you are ruining races.
I may have overreacted to a post from one hotlapper( I cannot remember who,
and there are to many to find it again) that slow drivers were the actual
causes of most crashes. It maybe true, and I can understand that argument
from one protecting himself from the attacks of the sort he was under, and
didn't take it in any way as hit one anybody, but still thinks the debate
sends and unfriendly message to people of the likes of me, who is not in the
negative rankwise.

It may not be true, but it is easy to think that if people who crash in the
process of being quick are unwanted, then people who crash in the process of
learning are even more unwanted.

Maybe it is just me over analyzing , but still I have even more doubts now
about joining vroc races than I had before, since i don't wanna be at the
receiving end of the next Tom P. who thinks online racing is dying because
of newbies crashing instead of reading books about pitstop strategy ;o)

To sum it up. I know pretty much that it is not the truth that newbies are
unwanted, but it could still be percieved that way.

Joakim

The people who ruin races are not the ones that are new to it but the ones who
don't wish to learn or contribute.

cha-ching!
3

Now I can't comment on VROC because I'm not a GPL player myself, but as far
as online racing in general goes for someone new to it its not silly at all.
For years I had no desire to even try online racing because it "appeared" to
be almost ruthless and/or cut throat. I had the fear of causing a crash and
being the target of what I had seen on countless forums, newsgroups, and
bulletin boards. It just didn't seem worth it IMO. To this day I almost
never jump into a pickup race because I get so sick of the ***going on in
them, even if I'm not the target and just watching it flash across the
screen.

After finally giving online racing a go I find the above to be very true.
Those percentages given may vary based on the title and the "crowd" that
plays them.  Actually my personal best experience came with a few pick races
in F1 2000 Champ Season and the worst have been in DTR. Currently I have a
group of about 10-15 guys that a race with and nobody gets mad at anyone.
Sure we may yell and scream at the CRT when something happens, but we never
flame anyone. And that's what makes online racing so much fun, but for a
newbie on the outside looking in it can be down right scary reading all the
***that gets posted.

MadDAWG

I'll be the first to admit I'm crap. I've got a DSL box - maybe we should
start a newbies racing host?
Where it is 'just for a laugh'.

Maybe we could even have a 'newbies league' where crashings ok, but you get
points deducted...

Thats sort of thing... You interested?

Dan

Don't let a few (a very minor few I may add) of the so-called "faster" guys
put you off with comments about slow drivers cause accidents  etc...
All of the decent drivers on VROC welcome ALL newcomers to GPL & VROC,
regardless of individual speed and/or experience..
It often amuses me too how a few (once again, a minor few) of the so-called
VROC experts tend to look down on anyone who can not obtain sub 28 laps at
Monza, or have not got their name up in lights on GPLrank,  but they tend
to forget that they were once in that same boat.

Regarding GPLrank, there are many good to excellent drivers in GPL that
have not even bothered putting in a GPLrank time, not because they couldn't
get a negative score, but simply because hotlapping and bragging rights do
not interest them.

Don't be put off with comments and snide remarks from the minority few, as
all of the decent drivers that race on VROC (and that is 99% of them) will
welcome all newcomers to VROC with open arms.
If any newcomer to GPL & VROC feels they are being victimized or abused for
being slow etc,  take their names and post their comments here on RAS for
all to see.

Cheers,
Ron Ayton
GPLrank (not interested)

I still remember my first online race with N2 back on TEN, scared as
hell to make a mistake and take someone out......and of course I did,
but not in my first race, I waited until the 2nd, apologized to the guy
and let him know I was new to all this and that I forgot that humans
drive differently than AI cars do

He was really cool about it all, just pickup racing he said, don't worry
about it, then he asked if I wanted to join him for another race, we
were racing Dega of course :-), and for the next couple of hours he
taught he most of what little I know about racing at Dega, even got me
into a couple of passworded races to show me what a clean race at Dega
could be like

I guess what I'm trying to say is that your attitude when racing online
as a newbie will have a big impact on how people react to your mistakes,
and you *will* make mistakes, everyone does

Sure you'll meet the odd SOB of thinks he's all that and won't accept an
honest apology, but more often than not, people will accept an apology
and move on, just don't make the same mistake on L1 in T1 at Monza
several races in a row with the same people, that won't go down too well
:-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke"
--Groucho Marx--

<snip>

That's the point. GPL online racing with VROC really *is* different to
other online pickup races - there really *is* more respect and good
humour between the drivers. I wouldn't have said what I did in regard
to "online racing in general" - regrettably, you're right about that.
VROC, though, is a bit of a special case.

A fair point, though, as I mentioned abouve, GPL/VROC is (in general -
of course there is the occasional exception) much more pleasant in this
regard than other games. Believe me, I was petrified when I entered my
first VROC race!

--
Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which
deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense -- Carl Sagan

The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.racesimcentral.net/

<snip>

Quite right. To be honest, I tend to think that faster drivers cause
more accidents. Reason? Because one or two of them tend to expect
everyone else in the field to have their standard of reactions,
forethought etc. Spatial awareness is a vital skill for a racing
driver, and that includes taking account of competitors of varying
speed, ability etc.

Again, true. But I (quite strongly) dispute the idea that being proud
of a GPLRank, whether it be -80 or +480, is in itself a bad thing.
After all, even Sunday-afternoon athletes are pleased when they better
their PB. If you are attracted by the idea of GPLRank, then enter your
score; if not, don't. Neither makes you a good or bad driver in itself.
(Actually, the best reason for using GPLRank is as a backup of your
player.ini file!)

There do seem to be quite a few newcomers in the last few weeks and
months, and that's great. A 20-car field is so much more exciting than
a 5-car one.

Here's a (silly) idea. Everyone who starts GPL sends off a replay of
their first-ever lap, crashes and all. This is not made public,
*except* if they get too big for their boots once they're fast. In that
case, every single GPL site in the world is sent that replay of their
first lap to put up on their site. Sort of "name and shame" :-)

--
Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which
deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense -- Carl Sagan

The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

Racing at VROC will only die when people stop using it because noone
else is racing. If newcomers cannot be encouraged to try it out and
have a go, then it definitely will die. I can see your point about how
you could perceive it that way. This has NOT been a useful discussion
for the community as a whole as Tom keeps stating, it has only caused
anger and hostility IMO.

Rafe Mc

Don't vorry about me, I know all this. (the exvroc thing, was just a
statement. One I should probably have left out) I was just commenting that
this is the signal that I feel is being put out, and hopefully this thread
will send out a more appropriate one.

Joakim

Don't have the time along with my regular league. And I think there are a
lot of leagues were there are room for newbies. Remember, when you start
league racing, you quickly step out of the newbie shoes. You just have to
find a place to start, where there are others at your own level. Then you
will most likely progress hand in hand.
And all newbies is not entirely good either. It's real nice to have some
experienced guys to learn from, and maybe help you with setups etc.

But a dedicated newbie server on vroc might be nice, if there isn't one?

Joakim