rec.autos.simulators

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

Jim Getze

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Jim Getze » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00


Not all Americans are NASCAR-only fans. Many of us love road courses, CART,
F1, etc.

Although this is a subject for another newsgroup, I can't let this stand
unchallenged. Many people would say your quote is complete nonsense. Yes,
Cuba and other countries have contributed many outstanding players, but for
every Pedro Martinez there is a Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, etc. For every
Sosa there is a McGuire, Ken Griffey Jr., etc.

Of course, there are a lot of people in the U.S. playing baseball, so it's
only natural that the *majority* of great players are Americans. It doesn't
mean that Americans are naturally any better or worse, it's just that there
are more Americans playing. I love to see players come in from Japan, the
Dominican Republic, Mexico, etc. (especially Cuba!). As long as the best
players in the world are on the field, I'm happy.

In the same way, the U.S. is weak in soccer because soccer hasn't caught on
at the *** level yet (i.e. the MLS). I hope it does someday.

Not convinced that, on average, the U.S. has more of the best players in the
world? Trying putting together a team of the best current players from any
one country (say Cuba) and compare that team to one comprised of the best
current players from the U.S.

I'm not sure why the word American is in quotes, or why you seem to have
some anger toward the U.S....

Andretti, Unser, and others get a lot of coverage because they are big and
familiar names to the viewers. But boy did Alex Zanardi and now Juan Montoya
and Dario Franchitti get a lot of coverage, and deservedly so!

Jim

Mark Daviso

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Mark Daviso » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00



>>May god have forgiveness on your souls. Americans love ovals simply
because it
>>helps them know where to look for the "Action". Also easier to eat a
hot-dog
>>and drink a big gulp if cars only go L-R. Just like in baseball though,
the
>>best talent *ISN'T* American. Of course, no matter who is in the lead, the
US
>>commentary always focuses on some portly, balding, past his prime
"American"
>>flailing madly way back in the pack... Andretti, Unser Jr.... thank god
Rahall
>>finally retired!

>The real question is why would Cart want to race in a 3rd World
>country any way.

Can the racist ***wits please leave now?

Mark
Reading, UK

"I -hate- Illinois Nazis"

Sky

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Sky » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Actually, the reason all the international CART races are on ovals is
because, at some point, CART signed an agreement with Bernie Ecclestone not
to run races outside the US on anything but ovals (apart from the already
existing Canadian and Australian). I'm not sure what leverage Bernie had to
force them to sign such a limiting agreement, but it seems clear he was
afraid of competition eating into his F1 profits. Probably a legitimate
fear, given the fact that CART racing is much more competitive than the
frustrating F1 processionals (11 different race-winners this year).

And before I'm misunderstood, I hate ovals, never watch NASCAR or the oval
CART races, and have watched every GP this year. But the non-oval CART races
are undeniably more interesting to watch, since passing actually occurs at
times other than pit stops ...

Not to mention multiple on-board camera views from every car in the race
(another lacking F1 feature for which we can thank Bernie), and live
broadcast of driver-pit radio communications. Although I could certainly
live without those multiple full-course yellows ...

Sky


> May god have forgiveness on your souls. Americans love ovals simply
because it
> helps them know where to look for the "Action". Also easier to eat a
hot-dog
> and drink a big gulp if cars only go L-R. Just like in baseball though,
the
> best talent *ISN'T* American. Of course, no matter who is in the lead, the
US
> commentary always focuses on some portly, balding, past his prime
"American"
> flailing madly way back in the pack... Andretti, Unser Jr.... thank god
Rahall
> finally retired!


> > CART is planning to come to englands rockingham oval (2.23 mile 5 turn
oval
> > est ave. 200mph cart) and an oval in Germany.  This can only be good
news
> > for Havas (the French company that owns Sierra/Papyrus).  As soon as the
> > execs there hear about cart, surely a new sim from Papyrus will be on th
e
> > cards???

> > So CART is turning into a world series (nothing against you americans,
but
> > you do seem to run world series against no other countries - baseball
> > (european view) etc.), world markets have got to be looked at, as the
rest
> > of the world dont like nascar that much....

> > Gpl cart next year???

> > pez ' heres to waiting'

> --
>                          \\|//
>                          (o o)

> |                      --James--                       |

> |                  --ICQ# 36334509--                   |
> |                                                      |
> |  --"silly rabbit, SUV's are for people with kids"--  |


Chris Schlette

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Chris Schlette » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Amend that. The agreement actually says anywhere outside of North/Central
America.  Thats why they can run a road course in Canada and Mexico, but
ovals in Brazil [and Australian was exempt because it was on the schedule
before the deal].

I don't mind ovals, but I do prefer CART ovals over NASCAR or IRL.


> Actually, the reason all the international CART races are on ovals is
> because, at some point, CART signed an agreement with Bernie Ecclestone
not
> to run races outside the US on anything but ovals (apart from the already
> existing Canadian and Australian). I'm not sure what leverage Bernie had
to
> force them to sign such a limiting agreement, but it seems clear he was
> afraid of competition eating into his F1 profits. Probably a legitimate
> fear, given the fact that CART racing is much more competitive than the
> frustrating F1 processionals (11 different race-winners this year).

> And before I'm misunderstood, I hate ovals, never watch NASCAR or the oval
> CART races, and have watched every GP this year. But the non-oval CART
races
> are undeniably more interesting to watch, since passing actually occurs at
> times other than pit stops ...

> Not to mention multiple on-board camera views from every car in the race
> (another lacking F1 feature for which we can thank Bernie), and live
> broadcast of driver-pit radio communications. Although I could certainly
> live without those multiple full-course yellows ...

> Sky



> > May god have forgiveness on your souls. Americans love ovals simply
> because it
> > helps them know where to look for the "Action". Also easier to eat a
> hot-dog
> > and drink a big gulp if cars only go L-R. Just like in baseball though,
> the
> > best talent *ISN'T* American. Of course, no matter who is in the lead,
the
> US
> > commentary always focuses on some portly, balding, past his prime
> "American"
> > flailing madly way back in the pack... Andretti, Unser Jr.... thank god
> Rahall
> > finally retired!


> > > CART is planning to come to englands rockingham oval (2.23 mile 5 turn
> oval
> > > est ave. 200mph cart) and an oval in Germany.  This can only be good
> news
> > > for Havas (the French company that owns Sierra/Papyrus).  As soon as
the
> > > execs there hear about cart, surely a new sim from Papyrus will be on
th
> e
> > > cards???

> > > So CART is turning into a world series (nothing against you americans,
> but
> > > you do seem to run world series against no other countries - baseball
> > > (european view) etc.), world markets have got to be looked at, as the
> rest
> > > of the world dont like nascar that much....

> > > Gpl cart next year???

> > > pez ' heres to waiting'

> > --
> >                          \\|//
> >                          (o o)

> > |                      --James--                       |

> > |                  --ICQ# 36334509--                   |
> > |                                                      |
> > |  --"silly rabbit, SUV's are for people with kids"--  |


Sean Higgin

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Sean Higgin » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

um  If I recall correctly Sosa took the same supplements as McGuire so that
doesn't hold water. hehe

--
Sean Higgins

"HigPup"
"Hollywood" for R6  "Hollywood__NWO" for ZONE

http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/hsts2/  HSTS, Powered by ATI Rage 128
http://www.atitech.ca   ATI Technologies



>:>Just like in baseball though, the
>:>best talent *ISN'T* American.

>: I believe McGwire beat Sosa in the homerun race.

>But that's like saying a driver is the best because he has the most pole
>positions, regardless of whether or not he wins :)

>Besides, McGwire was...er... "enhanced".

>Stephen

Bruce Kennewel

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Thanks Arne.



> > Mexico City Autodromo?

> Or it's proper name:
> Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez

> --
> Arne Martin

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Bruce Kennewel

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

www.senility.com, James! :o)


www.read-my-mail.com?

> www.why-would-anyone-NOT-want-to-be-in-the-usa.com?


> > Mexico City Autodromo?

> > The CART owner at the Italian GP was Roger Penske and he was visiting
after
> > receiving a begging letter from Zanardi pleading to be rescued from F1.

> > True.........honestly. Cross my heart.




> > > >>Don't forget Japan.  And maybe in a few years Mexico too [although a
> > road
> > > >>race there, yay, since its on North America turf.].

> > > >If i remember correctly CART ran at the Autodromo way back in its
early
> > years.

> > > Autodromo?

> > > Monza?

> > > CART on the old steeply banked oval at Monza, that would be news!

> > > AFAIR, during the Laguna Seca race, the announcer said that a CART
> > > team owner was in Monza watching the F1 GP, and nobody really knew
> > > why.

> > > --
> > > Matthias Flatt

> >   -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
==----------
> >    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the
World!
> > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers
==-----

> --
>                          \\|//
>                          (o o)

> |                      --James--                       |

> |                  --ICQ# 36334509--                   |
> |                                                      |
> |  --"silly rabbit, SUV's are for people with kids"--  |


  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
Bruce Kennewel

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

The agreement came about because of Ecclestone's concern over countries
attempting to run both forms of racing....F1 and CART.
(He did actually threaten to remove the F1 event from the Australian
calendar at one point).


> Amend that. The agreement actually says anywhere outside of North/Central
> America.  Thats why they can run a road course in Canada and Mexico, but
> ovals in Brazil [and Australian was exempt because it was on the schedule
> before the deal].

> I don't mind ovals, but I do prefer CART ovals over NASCAR or IRL.



> > Actually, the reason all the international CART races are on ovals is
> > because, at some point, CART signed an agreement with Bernie Ecclestone
> not
> > to run races outside the US on anything but ovals (apart from the
already
> > existing Canadian and Australian). I'm not sure what leverage Bernie had
> to
> > force them to sign such a limiting agreement, but it seems clear he was
> > afraid of competition eating into his F1 profits. Probably a legitimate
> > fear, given the fact that CART racing is much more competitive than the
> > frustrating F1 processionals (11 different race-winners this year).

> > And before I'm misunderstood, I hate ovals, never watch NASCAR or the
oval
> > CART races, and have watched every GP this year. But the non-oval CART
> races
> > are undeniably more interesting to watch, since passing actually occurs
at
> > times other than pit stops ...

> > Not to mention multiple on-board camera views from every car in the race
> > (another lacking F1 feature for which we can thank Bernie), and live
> > broadcast of driver-pit radio communications. Although I could certainly
> > live without those multiple full-course yellows ...

> > Sky



> > > May god have forgiveness on your souls. Americans love ovals simply
> > because it
> > > helps them know where to look for the "Action". Also easier to eat a
> > hot-dog
> > > and drink a big gulp if cars only go L-R. Just like in baseball
though,
> > the
> > > best talent *ISN'T* American. Of course, no matter who is in the lead,
> the
> > US
> > > commentary always focuses on some portly, balding, past his prime
> > "American"
> > > flailing madly way back in the pack... Andretti, Unser Jr.... thank
god
> > Rahall
> > > finally retired!


> > > > CART is planning to come to englands rockingham oval (2.23 mile 5
turn
> > oval
> > > > est ave. 200mph cart) and an oval in Germany.  This can only be good
> > news
> > > > for Havas (the French company that owns Sierra/Papyrus).  As soon as
> the
> > > > execs there hear about cart, surely a new sim from Papyrus will be
on
> th
> > e
> > > > cards???

> > > > So CART is turning into a world series (nothing against you
americans,
> > but
> > > > you do seem to run world series against no other countries -
baseball
> > > > (european view) etc.), world markets have got to be looked at, as
the
> > rest
> > > > of the world dont like nascar that much....

> > > > Gpl cart next year???

> > > > pez ' heres to waiting'

> > > --
> > >                          \\|//
> > >                          (o o)

> > > |                      --James--                       |

> > > |                  --ICQ# 36334509--                   |
> > > |                                                      |
> > > |  --"silly rabbit, SUV's are for people with kids"--  |


  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
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Todd Dr

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Todd Dr » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

The idea of Social Darwinism was proved invalid a long time ago.  All men
are not created equal because they do not have the same opportunities
afforded them.  So, it does matter where you are from, and even more
importantly what socio-economic level you are born into.



> > >Just like in baseball though, the
> > >best talent *ISN'T* American.

> > I believe McGwire beat Sosa in the homerun race.

> I believe also that Pedro Martinez was the *** pitcher this season,
> also.  The whole point about "my country has better athletes than you" is
> quite boring and almost xenophobic.  Every human being on planet Earth has
> the same chances as others, and if they have the willing and determination
> they will beat their goal.  It doesn't care whatever your from the US or
> Zaire, you are the same human being.  To each their domination, I doubt I
> have seen one American or one European won anything in long-run marathons,
> but I have not said that every American is a bad runner.  Okay Im quite a
> little utopian, I know :)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...

> "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

ymenar

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by ymenar » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00


Of course that is totally true.  People living in a better economic state
have better chances (not necessary better, the "chance" word is important)
to succeed than others.  They have access, if we talk about sports, to
better training methods, coaches, staff, equipment, etc..  But that doesn't
exclude or include everybody.  But at the base of existence, every human is
created equal.  Well this is what I call my "menardism", some mixture of
different scientifical, psychological and sociological theories :)

From a certain point of view it can be applied to racing.  The US base of
potential driver is the same as any other 300million group of driver, but
the people in the US have access to a much better environment to succeed
than per example 300million people from India.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Bruce Kennewel

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

First time I ever realised that Darwin was an invalid, Todd.
Did he have an accident on the "Beagle" or what?


> The idea of Social Darwinism was proved invalid a long time ago.  All men
> are not created equal because they do not have the same opportunities
> afforded them.  So, it does matter where you are from, and even more
> importantly what socio-economic level you are born into.




> > > >Just like in baseball though, the
> > > >best talent *ISN'T* American.

> > > I believe McGwire beat Sosa in the homerun race.

> > I believe also that Pedro Martinez was the *** pitcher this season,
> > also.  The whole point about "my country has better athletes than you"
is
> > quite boring and almost xenophobic.  Every human being on planet Earth
has
> > the same chances as others, and if they have the willing and
determination
> > they will beat their goal.  It doesn't care whatever your from the US or
> > Zaire, you are the same human being.  To each their domination, I doubt
I
> > have seen one American or one European won anything in long-run
marathons,
> > but I have not said that every American is a bad runner.  Okay Im quite
a
> > little utopian, I know :)

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...

> > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
realise
> > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

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Jame

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by Jame » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I'll bookmark that one, thanks Bruce! :o)


> www.senility.com, James! :o)



> > Bruce, where do you get this stuff? www.rumour-mill.com?
> www.read-my-mail.com?
> > www.why-would-anyone-NOT-want-to-be-in-the-usa.com?


> > > Mexico City Autodromo?

> > > The CART owner at the Italian GP was Roger Penske and he was visiting
> after
> > > receiving a begging letter from Zanardi pleading to be rescued from F1.

> > > True.........honestly. Cross my heart.




> > > > >>Don't forget Japan.  And maybe in a few years Mexico too [although a
> > > road
> > > > >>race there, yay, since its on North America turf.].

> > > > >If i remember correctly CART ran at the Autodromo way back in its
> early
> > > years.

> > > > Autodromo?

> > > > Monza?

> > > > CART on the old steeply banked oval at Monza, that would be news!

> > > > AFAIR, during the Laguna Seca race, the announcer said that a CART
> > > > team owner was in Monza watching the F1 GP, and nobody really knew
> > > > why.

> > > > --
> > > > Matthias Flatt

> > >   -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
> ==----------
> > >    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the
> World!
> > > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers
> ==-----

> > --
> >                          \\|//
> >                          (o o)

> > |                      --James--                       |

> > |                  --ICQ# 36334509--                   |
> > |                                                      |
> > |  --"silly rabbit, SUV's are for people with kids"--  |

>   -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
>    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
> ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----

--
                         \\|//

|                      --James--                       |

|                  --ICQ# 36334509--                   |
|                                                      |

david kar

Cart comes to england and germany!!!!!!!!!

by david kar » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

"supplements" HA!  . . . I love it!

Do you mean "***"?


> um  If I recall correctly Sosa took the same supplements as McGuire so
that
> doesn't hold water. hehe

> --
> Sean Higgins

> "HigPup"
> "Hollywood" for R6  "Hollywood__NWO" for ZONE

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/~higgy/hsts2/  HSTS, Powered by ATI Rage 128
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/   ATI Technologies


> >:>Just like in baseball though, the
> >:>best talent *ISN'T* American.

> >: I believe McGwire beat Sosa in the homerun race.

> >But that's like saying a driver is the best because he has the most pole
> >positions, regardless of whether or not he wins :)

> >Besides, McGwire was...er... "enhanced".

> >Stephen


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