> Lol, it's called let's nitpick and see just how much we can find wrong.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Don Burnette
> > Not from me, I don't personally insult..
> > I would just like to see larger issues addressed, ones that effect the
> > actual quality of the racing itself.
> You and I can agree on that.. I can qualify just fine off line at 100%
> tape.. Trying to do that online is
> a hit or miss situation.. Its totally happen stance before you BLEW YOUR
> ENGINE.. lol
> don
Don Burnette
Pete
I was a beta tester for Papyrus for 1 day.. I gave them a list of problems
and they
said the bugs i identified were just complaining, didn't want to address
them and
we parted after that day 7 years ago. I have a company
www.games-advertising.com
that gets paid about $50,000 to test and develop games... We help
developed, multiplayer
test, sell advertising, provide sound, etc. I work primarily with Julian
Data,Pete Reston.
Julian has a core group of testers of about 5 testers and I about 25 listed
on these games
below.
We usually find no less than 100
bugs after GOLD release.. Why !!! Companies that develop games are
publishers. They
are not expert in the application. They have programmers that attempt to
simulate the
world with little knowledge. But generally speaking they no very little
relatively about the application. The
reason we dont have a better NASCAR game is because of the understanding at
Papyrus of the physics associated with getting the car around the track and
the historically
weak beta testing core. Ever since Nascar 1 they beta testers have not
been a group
that understands hardware, software, operating systems or Late Model Racing,
95% just
enthusiasts. And dont hand me that ***you work with all those NASCAR
drivers as I have
talked to them and they tell me there input is generally discarded. You see
I work with
some of the same Nascar drivers on the games below. Now there
are exceptions within the company, ie, Charlie Heath and within the beta
testers .. But it has always been a
CLICK.. Just a click of people that get along and are aloud to test as long
as they dont
complain to papyrus. My approach with Bethesda, Infogrames and Ratbag and
some
more soon is we gonna tell you like it is.. If you give us ***to test we
are gonna tell you
what's wrong and if necessary how to fix it. These companies appreciate
the candor.
Games I have help develop are:
Drag Racing Games
Burnout
Players Choice Addition
Nira
IHRA
NHRA
Dirt Racing Games
Dirt Track Racing
World of Outlaws Sprint Car Game
Leadfoot
Sign - Off, Enough Said..
Don Wilshe
www.martelbros.com
Coming Soon... Hopefully... 3 new dirt racing games.. Beta Testers
Wanted..
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
> --
> Mike Grandy
> www.precision-racing.com
> > If you speak out too vociferously you get removed from the "team" and
> will
> > only be
> > > frustrated by the lack of response from Papyrus. Been there done that
> > > along with many others.
> > I was a beta tester for Papyrus for 1 day.. I gave them a list of
problems
> > and they
> > said the bugs i identified were just complaining, didn't want to address
> > them and
> > we parted after that day 7 years ago. I have a company
> > www.games-advertising.com
> > that gets paid about $50,000 to test and develop games... We help
> > developed, multiplayer
> > test, sell advertising, provide sound, etc. I work primarily with
Julian
> > Data,Pete Reston.
> > Julian has a core group of testers of about 5 testers and I about 25
> listed
> > on these games
> > below.
> > We usually find no less than 100
> > bugs after GOLD release.. Why !!! Companies that develop games are
> > publishers. They
> > are not expert in the application. They have programmers that attempt
to
> > simulate the
> > world with little knowledge. But generally speaking they no very little
> > relatively about the application. The
> > reason we dont have a better NASCAR game is because of the understanding
> at
> > Papyrus of the physics associated with getting the car around the track
> and
> > the historically
> > weak beta testing core. Ever since Nascar 1 they beta testers have
not
> > been a group
> > that understands hardware, software, operating systems or Late Model
> Racing,
> > 95% just
> > enthusiasts. And dont hand me that ***you work with all those NASCAR
> > drivers as I have
> > talked to them and they tell me there input is generally discarded. You
> see
> > I work with
> > some of the same Nascar drivers on the games below. Now there
> > are exceptions within the company, ie, Charlie Heath and within the beta
> > testers .. But it has always been a
> > CLICK.. Just a click of people that get along and are aloud to test as
> long
> > as they dont
> > complain to papyrus. My approach with Bethesda, Infogrames and Ratbag
> and
> > some
> > more soon is we gonna tell you like it is.. If you give us ***to test
> we
> > are gonna tell you
> > what's wrong and if necessary how to fix it. These companies
appreciate
> > the candor.
> > Games I have help develop are:
> > Drag Racing Games
> > Burnout
> > Players Choice Addition
> > Nira
> > IHRA
> > NHRA
> > Dirt Racing Games
> > Dirt Track Racing
> > World of Outlaws Sprint Car Game
> > Leadfoot
> > Sign - Off, Enough Said..
> > Don Wilshe
> > www.martelbros.com
> > Coming Soon... Hopefully... 3 new dirt racing games.. Beta Testers
> > Wanted..
From your message bodies I get the impression your PC can do more than ALL
CAPS, so take it easy with the headers, please. They hurt.
As an experienced simracer I'm also amazed about the amount of really basic
stuff that is often overlooked by official beta teams, but I'm resigned to
carrying the RAS stigma and accept ranting about it here doesn't help. On
the oher hand I've also heard about things discovered that wouldn't have
occured to me in a million years. Everybody has different priorities in and
peeves about games. I would be likely to overlook what others would call
"major graphical glitches", e.g.
Jan.
=---
PS.: correct spelling is "clique" IIRC.
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
> > You know better than to blame testers for bugs not getting fixed.
Testers
> > are not responsible for the design of the game, just testing it. Some
> > companies accept input from tester and some don't.
> > --
> > Mike Grandy
> > www.precision-racing.com
> > > If you speak out too vociferously you get removed from the "team" and
> > will
> > > only be
> > > > frustrated by the lack of response from Papyrus. Been there done
that
> > > > along with many others.
> > > I was a beta tester for Papyrus for 1 day.. I gave them a list of
> problems
> > > and they
> > > said the bugs i identified were just complaining, didn't want to
address
> > > them and
> > > we parted after that day 7 years ago. I have a company
> > > www.games-advertising.com
> > > that gets paid about $50,000 to test and develop games... We help
> > > developed, multiplayer
> > > test, sell advertising, provide sound, etc. I work primarily with
> Julian
> > > Data,Pete Reston.
> > > Julian has a core group of testers of about 5 testers and I about 25
> > listed
> > > on these games
> > > below.
> > > We usually find no less than 100
> > > bugs after GOLD release.. Why !!! Companies that develop games are
> > > publishers. They
> > > are not expert in the application. They have programmers that attempt
> to
> > > simulate the
> > > world with little knowledge. But generally speaking they no very
little
> > > relatively about the application. The
> > > reason we dont have a better NASCAR game is because of the
understanding
> > at
> > > Papyrus of the physics associated with getting the car around the
track
> > and
> > > the historically
> > > weak beta testing core. Ever since Nascar 1 they beta testers have
> not
> > > been a group
> > > that understands hardware, software, operating systems or Late Model
> > Racing,
> > > 95% just
> > > enthusiasts. And dont hand me that ***you work with all those
NASCAR
> > > drivers as I have
> > > talked to them and they tell me there input is generally discarded.
You
> > see
> > > I work with
> > > some of the same Nascar drivers on the games below. Now there
> > > are exceptions within the company, ie, Charlie Heath and within the
beta
> > > testers .. But it has always been a
> > > CLICK.. Just a click of people that get along and are aloud to test as
> > long
> > > as they dont
> > > complain to papyrus. My approach with Bethesda, Infogrames and
Ratbag
> > and
> > > some
> > > more soon is we gonna tell you like it is.. If you give us ***to
test
> > we
> > > are gonna tell you
> > > what's wrong and if necessary how to fix it. These companies
> appreciate
> > > the candor.
> > > Games I have help develop are:
> > > Drag Racing Games
> > > Burnout
> > > Players Choice Addition
> > > Nira
> > > IHRA
> > > NHRA
> > > Dirt Racing Games
> > > Dirt Track Racing
> > > World of Outlaws Sprint Car Game
> > > Leadfoot
> > > Sign - Off, Enough Said..
> > > Don Wilshe
> > > www.martelbros.com
> > > Coming Soon... Hopefully... 3 new dirt racing games.. Beta Testers
> > > Wanted..
Don doesn't have a ***in clue about what being a softweare developer
means, and he certainly doesn't understand the dynamics of being under
the gun as far as timelines go, especially when you have a "publisher"
like Sierra pounding on you to finish the program according to their
schedule.
There's no such thing as a program that doesn't have any bugs, and you
can't hope to satisfy everyone with the feature list (or the way the
features are implemented). God help yuou if one of your end users is a
programmer himself, because he'll take a deeper approach to the analysis
of a perceived shortcoming and probably try to offer a solution.
Now, let's also consider that Don's rant is very one-sided with no
specifics as to which problems he reported, how many were fixed, or how
many of them are simply that he doesn't like how something was done.
Like I said, Wilshe doesn't have a clue.
--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
RASCAR Roster
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================
Shut up Don, really.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Daaaaaaaa..
Programmer for 37 years.... Headed beta testing for 7 racing games
mentioned.. Oh yes I think so..
Don
dw
> Shut up Don, really.
> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
All the beta testers work extremely hard. I should know.. But the primary
reason they are there is because they are part of a click... Sure your \
cant change the design at PAPYRUS, but I must be doing some other
kind of testing as we radically changed design at Bethesda, and
Ratbag via patches and before the game was released.. DW
I get paid alot to beta test. Its the thankless job unless you get
paid
dw
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
