rec.autos.simulators

I've been playing N3 exclusively since it came out (as far as driving
games go, anyway).
I read the complaints, and generally thought N3 wasn't deserving of
the trouncing it was getting from a lot of guys.
I mean, I was getting good performance with a full field at 800x600,
and since a full field is important to NASCAR, some concessions had to
be made -they were, and it was worth it.

Fast forward to about 2 hours ago... A little weary of N3 -but still
in the mood for a driving game, I fire up SCGT.
I run SCGT with the Advanced Options Editor set to full simulation
with the slippery grass.
I decide on Mosport Park. Some good left and right turns, but also
some nice sweepers and a long straight to ease me back into road
racing.

As I slid through the first few corners in the trusty M3 in***pit
view, it was a damn revelation. Like being back home again, or
something.
I go down the gradually sweeping downhill, and into the moderately
hard, very bumpy corner.
This is where the N3 car would understeer and plow straight, or the
ass end would break free with an icy slickness that gives you no hint
of whats going on (the weight transfer FF feeling in N3 *is*
excellent, but unfortunately generally comes into play when you get
the car straight, after the drama is over).
Expecting that dead feeling, I'm AMAZED as the screen tilts left, the
ass end steps out, and the screen bobs as the M3 grasps for traction.
Feeding it full throttle, it whips back in line and the screen rocks
slightly in both directions as the car settles on it's suspension.
Right about then, the immersive difference some bumps, big elevation
changes and realistically working suspension can make really start
sinking in.
I realize N3 does elevation changes too, but there is something more
flowing and natural about the SCGT tracks.

Minutes later, I'm in the same corner in the middle of a 15 car field,
smiling joyously as I see the other M3's and 911's lean down hard to
the left on their suspensions, then bob, step out of line, and apply a
dollop of brake to reel it all back in. Up over a crest, and they
stretch out and compress. I smile even more watching the 911's
spitting fire out of their dual exhausts as they downshift for the
next tight turn.
Wow! They look like real, honest-to-God cars dicing for position, not
the jittery, pivoting, lifeless cars I've been watching for the last
week.

The not-so-great things come back too, like AI that won't alter its
apex regardless of where you are, and of course the fact that the
computer takes over in pit lane, but overall it gave me some genuine
reflection on the sim vs. game issue.
Since I didn't buy NASCAR 99, I'm OK with N3 for the online play,
Windows interface, and FF support but playing SCGT made me realize why
some of the GPL lovers got so mad.
With the Advanced Options Editor, the cars in this upstart SCGT "game"
feel so much more realistic and right than in N3, that I can't help
but think I'll never play a sim that takes a step back again.

The unfortunate fact here is that I'm probably going to pass on NASCAR
Legends despite the fact that I love cars of that era.
The good thing is that games and sims I'd grown tired of like SCGT and
Viper all feel brand new again.

Well, that's just my rambling stream of consciousness. Thanks for
reading,

Tim

Chris

========================
Adam Zerlin
GT Insider Webmaster
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
================================
GT International Championship Organizer
Sponsored by MadCatz
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com

I keep hearing about the WSC cars and as a huge fan I'd love to
incorporate them.. but I have no idea how to do so..HELP!!!!

____________________
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember: Amateurs built the Ark,
Professionals built the Titanic!

1) The exe file points to the "class" so one class has to be replaced
in the exe or the exe needs to be modified to have another class.

2) The gizmo functions for the menus only allows for certain
"clickable" areas in the menus, With the class selection screen there
was only 4 buttons, hence a class button could not be added.

- James Wohlever

Techware Motorsports
http://techware.4mg.com/

<snipped>

I'm one of the few remaining sim' racers who hasn't had the
opportunity to try Nascar 3 yet, so I can't give much of an opinion on
the matter.

What I will say however is that I agree how totally refreshing Sports
Car GT can feel, compared to Grand Prix Legends, Nascar Racing 2, and
all the other racing simulators in my collection.

Power sliding is both a skill and a sport all in its own and
complimented with some quite brilliant graphics, Sports Car GT really
does push itself ahead of the rest when it comes to sheer
***iveness.

Three cheers for Electronic Arts!

Best regards,

Brian Whitaker

Err.. your still comparing a Stock-car to a Sports-car.  Different beasts.
And where in N3 do you have a sweeping downhill and almost negative-banked
left turn?  The only one is at the old Sears Point (turn 6), and I loaded it
in N3 with my FF, it is really accurate and as you said it understeered and
plow straight, and gives correct FF settings.  Not as great as GPL but
accurate.

It's the limitation of the old Papy game engine.  It really is
wall-grass-track-grass-wall.  You cannot add object in the middle of it.
Just look at the incredible depth that you can have with GPL and the track
accuracy.  You can put anything there, a second road (Rouen), object in it,
track elevation (Zandy), etc..  The SCGT game engine is still alot like N3
and clearly far away from GPL imho, it's not that great (Motorsims' game
engine is a true 3d-environment also and is really much more incredible).
N4 will really have incredible track accuracy.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

"Nuff Said"........

Tim

SCGT gives much better visual cues as to what the *modelled* car is
doing. The visual cues make the game more immersive. Couple that with
the more modern, dynamic chassis model SCGT seems to have, and you (I)
have a superior experience.
I understand this is subjective, but since I like both NASCAR and
Sports Car racing, I believe I'm being very objective.

Again, the specifics of that one corner weren't my point, just the
best example I had at the moment.

There are many little things, like the way the N3 cars whip up onto
the banking from the flat. It just looks wrong, and doesn't feel like
anything is happening when the transition is made. Very rigid.

I didn't really pick up on it until I went from extensive playing of
N3 back to something else.
It was then I realized that N3 has a rigid, somewhat lifeless feel.
I'm watching the real NASCAR race from Martinsville right now, and
ironically, from the in-car camera the cars ahead are bouncing,
moving, and reacting to the bumps in the corners MUCH like the M3 did
for me in SCGT.

Tim

"Nuff Said"

:) Dennis