Toca Race Driver 2 and Nascar 2003? That is heel-toe as in "brake,
clutch-in, blip throttle while braking, shift, clutch out, trail brake".
Also, that is relatively affordable...
TIA,
Dan
TIA,
Dan
I'm not as fast as I was when I ran sequential shifting and clutch
help, but I enjoy it more - which is what it's all about :)
There are a few 3 pedal setups available and "affordable" is relative
:)
Regards,
Mark Davison
www.v8thunder.com
Isn't it "brake, clutch-in, neutral, clutch out, blip throttle while
braking, clutch in, gear in, clutch out, trail brake" in order to be
realistic?
Doesn't NASCAR racecars have an oldstyle gearbox as opposed to the
semiautomatic stuff in WRC for example?
In NASCAR 2003 you of course have to shift like you describe if you use a
paddle shifter.
A friend of mine has a BRD Speed 7 set which he drives just like you
describe it, and he's just won our league. ;)
Personally I'm faster with my trusty logitech MOMO pedals. I guess it's all
up to what one are used to.
> Isn't it "brake, clutch-in, neutral, clutch out, blip throttle while
> braking, clutch in, gear in, clutch out, trail brake" in order to be
> realistic?
> Doesn't NASCAR racecars have an oldstyle gearbox as opposed to the
> semiautomatic stuff in WRC for example?
> In NASCAR 2003 you of course have to shift like you describe if you use a
> paddle shifter.
> A friend of mine has a BRD Speed 7 set which he drives just like you
> describe it, and he's just won our league. ;)
> Personally I'm faster with my trusty logitech MOMO pedals. I guess it's
all
> up to what one are used to.
>Isn't it "brake, clutch-in, neutral, clutch out, blip throttle while
>braking, clutch in, gear in, clutch out, trail brake" in order to be
>realistic?
You still have to blip the throttle(heal-toe) to match the revs of the
engine to that of the new gear for smooth downshifts.
> >> Are there any pedal sets that provide a realistic heel-toe experience
in
> >> Toca Race Driver 2 and Nascar 2003? That is heel-toe as in "brake,
> >> clutch-in, blip throttle while braking, shift, clutch out, trail
brake".
> >Isn't it "brake, clutch-in, neutral, clutch out, blip throttle while
> >braking, clutch in, gear in, clutch out, trail brake" in order to be
> >realistic?
> Well, no. That's double-declutching which is used on non-synchromesh
> gearboxes. On gearboxes with syncromeshes it's not really that
> meaningful to double-declutch, if you're nottrying to save on the
> brass rings that is. :) Unsynchronised gearboxes should be pretty rare
> ever since the mid-sixties, except for american "big-rigs" and
> motorbike(and sequential) gearboxes.
> You still have to blip the throttle(heal-toe) to match the revs of the
> engine to that of the new gear for smooth downshifts.
On the other hand I'm just a computer geek, and have never driven an
unsynced box. I have to settle with double-clutching my toyota corolla ;)
>> On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:56:19 +0200, "Carl Ribbegaardh"
>> >> Are there any pedal sets that provide a realistic heel-toe experience
>in
>> >> Toca Race Driver 2 and Nascar 2003? That is heel-toe as in "brake,
>> >> clutch-in, blip throttle while braking, shift, clutch out, trail
>brake".
>> >Isn't it "brake, clutch-in, neutral, clutch out, blip throttle while
>> >braking, clutch in, gear in, clutch out, trail brake" in order to be
>> >realistic?
>> Well, no. That's double-declutching which is used on non-synchromesh
>> gearboxes. On gearboxes with syncromeshes it's not really that
>> meaningful to double-declutch, if you're nottrying to save on the
>> brass rings that is. :) Unsynchronised gearboxes should be pretty rare
>> ever since the mid-sixties, except for american "big-rigs" and
>> motorbike(and sequential) gearboxes.
>> You still have to blip the throttle(heal-toe) to match the revs of the
>> engine to that of the new gear for smooth downshifts.
>I thought the Jerico WC4-4 was non synchro? I think the Van Diemen Fords
>also are using non synchro gearboxes.
>On the other hand I've read that it should be possible to just slam the
>gears in even on downshift, using a Jerico box, but I guess clutching and
>revmatching is better if it's possible.
The revmatching also isn't for the functioning of the gearbox
primarily, it's so you don't upset the car by spinning up the engine
with your rear tyres.
watch JPM downshift in the 24 car, he is left foot braking, and blips the
accel as he pushes the gear lever through neutral.
you dont need to clutch in with the current nascar gearboxes on upshift or
downshift.
you just, you know, lift and shift.
pez
> >> On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:56:19 +0200, "Carl Ribbegaardh"
> >> >> Are there any pedal sets that provide a realistic heel-toe
experience
> >in
> >> >> Toca Race Driver 2 and Nascar 2003? That is heel-toe as in "brake,
> >> >> clutch-in, blip throttle while braking, shift, clutch out, trail
> >brake".
> >> >Isn't it "brake, clutch-in, neutral, clutch out, blip throttle while
> >> >braking, clutch in, gear in, clutch out, trail brake" in order to be
> >> >realistic?
> >> Well, no. That's double-declutching which is used on non-synchromesh
> >> gearboxes. On gearboxes with syncromeshes it's not really that
> >> meaningful to double-declutch, if you're nottrying to save on the
> >> brass rings that is. :) Unsynchronised gearboxes should be pretty rare
> >> ever since the mid-sixties, except for american "big-rigs" and
> >> motorbike(and sequential) gearboxes.
> >> You still have to blip the throttle(heal-toe) to match the revs of the
> >> engine to that of the new gear for smooth downshifts.
> >I thought the Jerico WC4-4 was non synchro? I think the Van Diemen Fords
> >also are using non synchro gearboxes.
> >On the other hand I've read that it should be possible to just slam the
> >gears in even on downshift, using a Jerico box, but I guess clutching and
> >revmatching is better if it's possible.
> I checked it out, I had absolutely no idea what those tanks actually
> were using, but it(Jerico WC) seems to use dog-rings, which is a sort
> of syncromesh which makes the cogs set in certain positions so you
> actually just jam into next gear without engaging the clutch with a
> lift of throttle(or ignition-cutout) on upshifts. On downshifts
> however you must(well, should... it can be done otherwise) use the
> clutch. But double-declutching isn't necessary.
> The revmatching also isn't for the functioning of the gearbox
> primarily, it's so you don't upset the car by spinning up the engine
> with your rear tyres.
>> I checked it out, I had absolutely no idea what those tanks actually
>> were using, but it(Jerico WC) seems to use dog-rings, which is a sort
>> of syncromesh which makes the cogs set in certain positions so you
>> actually just jam into next gear without engaging the clutch with a
>> lift of throttle(or ignition-cutout) on upshifts. On downshifts
>> however you must(well, should... it can be done otherwise) use the
>> clutch. But double-declutching isn't necessary.
>> The revmatching also isn't for the functioning of the gearbox
>> primarily, it's so you don't upset the car by spinning up the engine
>> with your rear tyres.
>go find the Juan Pablo Montoya Jeff Gordon swap.
>watch JPM downshift in the 24 car, he is left foot braking, and blips the
>accel as he pushes the gear lever through neutral.
>you dont need to clutch in with the current nascar gearboxes on upshift or
>downshift.
>you just, you know, lift and shift.
-Larry
cheap
pez
> -Larry
> > Are there any pedal sets that provide a realistic heel-toe experience in
> > Toca Race Driver 2 and Nascar 2003? That is heel-toe as in "brake,
> > clutch-in, blip throttle while braking, shift, clutch out, trail brake".
> > Also, that is relatively affordable...
> > TIA,
> > Dan
I have two older MSFFW's. I might play around with that idea.
It's a shame the PS connector is on the wheel though :(
-Larry
> cheap
> pez
> > I think you were ok until the last sentence LOL
> > -Larry
> > > Are there any pedal sets that provide a realistic heel-toe experience
in
> > > Toca Race Driver 2 and Nascar 2003? That is heel-toe as in "brake,
> > > clutch-in, blip throttle while braking, shift, clutch out, trail
brake".
> > > Also, that is relatively affordable...
> > > TIA,
> > > Dan
You are not going to find much in the way of "realistic" in any type of
"***" controls you would buy from a computer store or retail game
controller manufacturer. I assume that's what you mean by "relatively
affordable?"
Even the so called "spendy" units from BRD, Redline and others, don't offer
much more realism, just metal (instead of plastic) and some improved
life-span, mechanically.
If you want totally realistic racing controls for your sim racing, then you
have to use real-world racing controls (wheels and pedals).
Here's a video of a lap at Watkins Glen in sim control pedals made from
Wildwood pedals....similar to those used in most Cup cars these days (most
teams are making their pedals themselves now). This video is from my Cup
***pit simulator.
www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/wg_lap.avi
By the way, I don't actually drive my cup car as I do in this video. I did
it for this video because one of our coaching clients wanted a look at true
sports-car-style heel and toe footwork. Cup car ***'s don't require
clutching either up or down, though many drivers do clutch when shifting up
through the gears....more of a "confidence/timing" thing than anything else.
Almost all of them now are left foot braking on the road courses.
Take care,
Tom
if youd like me to take it down, no problem.
pez
I assume you mean "repost the link to the video?" Don't know that the text
of the post would be appropriate to repost...kind of out of context, you
know?
I hadn't planned on leaving it up on my website for more than a few days
(until this r.a.s. string died out). But I will leave it up for a couple
weeks if you post it at Sierra. The file is taking up bandwidth
un-necessarily on my website, otherwise I'd leave it there permanently.
I only wanted to show Dan and others who read this string that realistic
heel-toe braking techniques were possible with simulators if real-world
hardware was used for the controls. I've had real-world stock car and GT
sports car drivers in that same simulator, and within a few laps of driving
they essentially heel-toe just as I am doing in that video. It's a very
rapid adaptation because the pedals are similar to almost to an exact
degree, to what they find in their real race cars.
We just recently built a set of pedals for a Toyota Atlantic race car, and
the entire pedal system mimics those of a real Atlantic car (Swift) exactly.
Even the brake, which only moves a 1/4 inch total (at 400lbs foot pressure
on the pedal) at the tip of the pedal face......but rotates the pot almost
270 degrees! We are working on a braking system right now that uses
"pressure sensors" rather than potentiometers, that will work even better!
Keep in mind, this stuff is not being built for the hobby level online sim
racer. The pedals in that video would cost about $3500 if we sold them as
"retail." The Atlantic pedals cost us over $6,000 to build... at our costs.
That means they'd have to sell for around $10K.....as you can see this, is
not something for the average sim racer. But it does show what is
possible....and what everyone can strive for in terms of realism for their
racing controls.
Regards,
Tom