rec.autos.simulators

Do cars with Dog boxes require you to always heel and toe and clutch when
downshifting?

I used to race cars that had the hewland ld200 box on them and they seemed
to not mind upshifting just with a lift of the throttle (no clutch) but we
had it drummed into us to heel/toe and clutch on downshifts (i was told that
id destroy that box if i tried to GPL it!).

Is it harmfull to the gearbox in a car with a dog box not to clutch on
downshifts and to use the same method that the nsacar drivers use with their
jericos (and as such the same method most pc racers use) ?

what about sequential boxes as used in gt cars (for example). Clutch or no
clutch, or does it really depend on how tough the gearbox is?

what allows for no clutch use in a jerico (a dog box) but would require it
in something like the hewland ld200 (another dog box)?

cheers!

Ive also found this link to Mike Vergers (current ASCAR racer, former ARCA,
and one of my former instructors at silverstone) heel and toeing a Radical
around. http://www.racesimcentral.net/

pez

Gear box usage http://www.porazinski.plus.com/

pez

hows about this (and sorry for trying to post it AGAIN! - i just think it
would eliminate the need for dodgy user customisable steering options that
should really be garage tweaks, not UI tweaks - a standard for a software
programmable wheel would do the trick)

this is something im trying to propagate to get people to ask for more than
just momos for racing games...

Well, ive not had any response to the mails ive sent to simbin yet, but i
think this is something that would help advance our hobby a little.

realistic wheels (sounds simple!)

heres a copy of the posts ive made:

Hello,

My names Alex Porazinski, ive been discussing steering wheels for racing
games with Manuel Daskalos (tech advisor on Papyrus' NASCAR Racing 2003) and
he told me that the steering lock on NASCAR racing cars steering wheels is
dictated by the relationship between the steering ratio and the maximum
steering angle available on the front wheels (which is dictated usually by
the suspension or wheel well itself), so the max lock never really changes,
what changes is the amount of rotation available on the steering wheel (at
least this is how it appears on NASCAR nextel cup stock cars with geared
steering), ie. the steering speed.

I sent an email to the guys at Ball Racing Developments (
http://www.racesimcentral.net/ ) who are currently developing a new force
feedback controller, and i was wondering whether they could build a locking
mechanism into the wheel that could be software controlled, so that its set
depending on your steering ratio set in the garage of the racing sim. Tim
Ball sent back a reply indicating that a software controlled locking
mechanism could be implemented.

Would it be possible to do this with GTR? vids look great so far and im
aware of the great things you guys did with the f1 series mods.

If SimBin (a company that seems dedicated not only to the casual sim market
but also to the ***, as are Ball Racing Developments) could tie up with
a company like BRD to develop this kindof simulation steering wheel, then
we'd all be 'one step closer to the ultimate racing experience'.

The current MSFF and Logitech wheels are nice enough, but we (the ***)
would love to have realistic wheels (which we dont have). Race cars have
different amount of lock available to them depending on many things, and
having multiple cars in a sim like GTR (which is looking great btw) would
provide an excellent opportunity to not only adjust the steering wheel lock
based on your garage 'wheel lock' setting, but also from car to car.

Itd be great to jump into a single seater in a sim and have the wheel be
told by the software what range of motion to allow (which from experience
isnt that much), and then jump into a GT car with the same wheel and voila,
more lock because the software has told the wheel where the stops need to
come in.

Maybe you and BRD could discuss this matter? I think (if my understanding is
correct in all of this) that the above described concept would take us sim
fans to almost completely realistic steering input devices, whadya think?

sorry if it all sounds like a ramble, but its just an idea ive had running
through my head for a while.

Best Regards,

Alex Porazinski

:

What im asking for is software locking for the BRD wheel thats activated in
the game depending on your car and car suspension settings (as in real
life). Id assume this will take people like Simbin talking to BRD to get it
working.

im fed up with 270 deg wheels, and the 900degree wheel that logitech has out
is nice, but its still a fair way from 'realistic'.

whadya think?

As for realistic shifting techniques, you dont need the clutch according to
Hewland (the gearbox manufacturer of choice in GT racing) see
http://www.racesimcentral.net/ for the email i got back from them

So, my requests (in order of preference and what i believe to be importance)

1. Realistic Steering for all cars modelled - Sim Wheels that are told by
the software how many degrees of lock they have.
If im driving a Fiat Seicento in a race game i want my wheel to go around 4
times from lock to lock, adding as much angle to the fronts as my real car
does (yep, i drive one!), then if i jump into another car (say a formula
car) i want the 360degs or so and the limited steering circle. Then into a
Lister, etc etc.
What i dont want is 270degree limits, or 900limits that have to be tailored
by the users - the technology is there to have the wheel be told by the
software what the car is and how many degrees it should have on it. I dont
want Low Speed Steering Hacks, and no linearity slider for the requested
wheel.

2. Realistic Shifting - Force Feedback shifters that only go into gear if
youve done it properly (see the lengthly post ive made above!).

3. Realistic brake pedals - A force feedback brake would be nice, but as ive
said, it would only help in judging brake wear.

pez