rec.autos.simulators

by **tweet** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Hi,

To david...nope...no EB in the netherlands.
And returning software is a *big* no no here.
Yes..you can return something...when the box is un opened and the
plastic seel untouched.
Like give someone software for their birthday...they hate it and can
return it...
But if you buy something, play it and don't like it no way you can
return it.

The whole warez thing is always good for some controversy.
*If* i could return software after trying it out i wouldn't bother
with warez....
But as it is now i try out things, if i like i buy if i don't i won't.
I buy a car after having taken a test drive, i buy a monitor after
having seen the picture on a show model and after having seen the
picture of the one in the box which i'm getting...and if i get home
and there's stil something weird with the tube that shouldn't be there
i return the thing...etc..etc..
So it's high time we get a return policy for software here aswell...
I'm sure warez/piracy has an negative impact on sales in general, but
i think a good percentage of the impact lies in the fact that people
get to see it before purchase and decide it ain't worth their money,
and a lesser percentage in the 'i have it as warez so why buy it at
all'

There's also the demo option, that's also a good way to show a
customer just what he's gonna get for his moeny....
I drove the GPL demo and was 'sold' after driving one round on WG.
I never even saw or noticed the warez version of GPL, and if i had i
wouldn't have bothered with it...the demo itself was more then enough
to convince me so i pre ordered it and couldn't wait till it actually
arrived.
Off course there could be other reasons but i'm really not suprised
there was no demo of GP3...
I can understand people liking GP3 for reasons off overall gameplay
but i think a demo would result in more people wanting to buy it but
deciding not to after the demo, then vice versa.

And to rrevded...actually i have deleted it last night...not because
i'm such a politically correct person but because it's
far from my liking and i don't feel the need to play something i don't
like anyways...to little time for that.
I just called to cancel the order and the guy said i was the 3rd
person calling today about that.
One could argue this is because they have a warez version now and
don't need to buy it anymore but i think people who pre order software
would really buy it if they like something...eventhough they have a
warez version.
To me(personal opinion) GP3, even with the wet weather and improved
AI, is really a blatant rehash of GP2, a quick moneyfix...it's like
C&C tiberian sun(which i sadly did buy..duuhhh).

I have quite a load of legal software....mostly flightsims and a few
classic games like dune2000, descent 1 and 2, etc...
As for driving sims all i have is ICR 1 and 2....GP2..and GPL...
GPL was the last one i bought, and it's so amazing and it showed what
great programmers can do that i haven't bought a driving sim since...
I did try the warez version or demos of allmost everything that came
out since then...it all got rerouted to the trashbin after a few hours
of play.

I'll read the release reviews here, cause maybe those can convince me
there are many differences between the warez and release version.
If you sift out the people that go 'it sux' and the 'it utterly rules'
and get the ones that are somewhere in the middle i usually find
reviews i read here are much closer to reality then the reviews on the
big web sites...
All that said, it's a warez GP3version, and i hope it's an early beta
but i doubt it.
The people who respond to a unbiased review of a warez version with
'you have shit for brains' just because it is a warez review are the
ones i tend to ignore.
Because sadly it does seem to be the release version or something very
close to it....and not a load of code from many months ago...

oh well...bring on N4.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2000 00:12:53 -0500, rrevved

>... after you cancel your pre-order, will you delete the warez
>version?
>>Call me a bastard for trying the warez version for all i care..
>>i'll cancel my pre order tomorrow:(((

>We do in the UK - aren't there any EBs in the Netherlands?
>>in europe we don't have the nice return policy they have in the stated.

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

We have heard this story with the warez release of every major title
recently. Name one that was better in any significant way (not just minor
bug fixes) from the one-week-before-release warez version. There aren't any
to name. The GP3 warez is version 1.0...there are certainly a few little
graphical glitches and the like that need to be fixed (and may be in the
retail version), but to make this even GP2.5 would require a major re-write
of all the code. It ain't going to happen.

So please, name the titles that were different from the warez versions.

Marc.

> I could careless about GP3 since I never had any interest any the game in
> the first place since it was well known for along time it wasn't going to
be
> anything great.

> The point of my post is that you can't review a warez version of game
> because he doesn't know what build he has of the game all you know is the
> warez version could be a mid beta build.

> The guy showed that he didn't know what he was talking about when he said
> the game had no tire temperature setting LOL

> Robert GT86 Platts

> > >or tire temperature setting i knew there was something wrong.

> > >You don't set tire temps dipshit. This proves the rest of your post is
> worth
> > >spit.

> > >snipped a bunch of dumpshit from a idiot.

> > >You can't do a review of a warez dumbass because alot of stuff in warez
> > >games are usually ripped out of the game.Now back away from the
computer
> and
> > >leave the reviewing to the people who get paid to do it and know what
the
> > >hell they are talking about.

> > Maybe it's you who should back away from the computer....back away and
> > realize that just MAYBE Geoff Crammond isn't the second coming of
> > christ.....realize that MAYBE Grand Prix 3 won't be "the shit."

> > Having played the warez version all I can say is, the released version
> > better be WAAAAAY better than this warez one. In fact, I hope it's a
> > completely different game and that maybe this was just the proposed
> > shareware version or something. After playing it for about an hour
> > (not much, I know), the first thing that came to mind was Daikatana,
> > as in..."I waited several years for THIS!?" It just looks and feels
> > so much like GP2, it's scary. This may have been ok three or four
> > years ago, but not now (in my opinion at least). Just some things
> > I've noticed that have turned me off right off the bat. The cars, or
> > rather the movement of the cars. They don't appear to be firmly
> > planted on the ground. For example...at Monaco, when the cars are
> > rounding the Loews hairpin and going downhill, they sort of "sink"
> > down the hairpin. The road goes downhill, but instead of the cars
> > following the change in elevation, they stay straight and level which
> > makes the front wheels appear to be off the ground....just like World
> > Circuit and GP2. Another is the way in which all tracks kind of look
> > the same. For example, it seems that every track uses the same style
> > of curbing, only different colors, unlike F1 2000. In F1 200 for
> > example, some of the curbing at Spa is very wide and very pronounced.
> > In GP3, all the curbing is the same....flat strips about 3 inches
> > wide. Also, everything appears to be flat and smooth. In F1 2000,
> > you got the feeling of driving on uneven pavement as the car would
> > bounce up and down while going down the straights. In GP3, it looks
> > as if you're driving on glass....no imperfections in the surface
> > whatsoever. Another thing which irks me is the lame ass penalty
> > system. Cut the track and you get a black flag, which equates to you
> > abitrarily being reduced to 35mph for 15secs or so, rather than
> > actually having to come into the pits for a stop and go. Again, just
> > like GP2. And what if there is a car on the track and you have to cut
> > the track to avoid it. Bam! Penalty. It's sort of like being black
> > flagged in N3 for speeding down pit lane when you happen to spin
> > through it because of an accident. And then there are the canned
> > spins. They appear to still be around. I can induce a spin, let go
> > of the wheel, and most of the time the cars comes to rest facing the
> > exact same direction. Eerie! There's more that underwhelms me (like
> > the sound), but I've gone on too long as it is.

> > With that being said, I know this is a warez version, and when the
> > release comes out, I'll probably buy it on sight, if only because this
> > warez release can't possibly the final, or even close to the final (at
> > least I hope not). But I must admit I am nevertheless disappointed,
> > especially after all the hype.

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I will. I deleted the F12000 two days after installing it. Only bought it
after the unofficial patch came out. I don't even tape music or burn copies
of it (can you say the same thing, Mr. Moralist?). I own every CD I play
(music and computer). I can't even imagine my reaction had I run out and
bought GP3 without checking in here first and checking the 1.0 warez for
myself. I would not have believed the people saying it was just GP2.5.
After 4 years of the genius at work (now with a huge team behind him as
well), I would have said those people must be on ***. It couldn't be such
a minor improvement.

Looking forward to being proven wrong on retail release day, but not holding
my breath.

Marc.

> >Call me a bastard for trying the warez version for all i care..
> >i'll cancel my pre order tomorrow:(((

> ... after you cancel your pre-order, will you delete the warez
> version?

by **Greg Cisk** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> >Call me a bastard for trying the warez version for all i care..
> >i'll cancel my pre order tomorrow:(((

> ... after you cancel your pre-order, will you delete the warez
> version?

Didn't you download and use the warez version of F1 2000???

If so what the hell are you trying to do with this apparent religious
crusade? I know you are the "right reverend", but really :-)

--

by **Greg Cisk** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Not with a file date of 7/3/00...

--

by **Greg Cisk** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

They were probably wined and dined into that total suck ass
preview :-)

--

> Lets wait for the full retail version before being critical
> about it.

> Chris

> >This is absolutely not what I was wanting to hear =(
> >Lets all just hope the warez verison is OLD and not as good as
> the retail.
> >We'll know soon enough!!!
> >....Colin

> -----------------------------------------------------------

> Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
> Up to 100 minutes free!
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Peter Ive** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>> Just a note about the sound. Is anyone here still using the original GPL
>> sounds?

>yup, Personally I prefer the originals in most sims....Don't know why so
>many people complain....

Yep, me too. Never felt they were that bad that they needed changing.
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

by **Jon Van Ginneke** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> > I could careless about GP3 since I never had any interest any the game
in
> > the first place since it was well known for along time it wasn't going
to
> be
> > anything great.

> > The point of my post is that you can't review a warez version of game
> > because he doesn't know what build he has of the game all you know is
the
> > warez version could be a mid beta build.

> Not with a file date of 7/3/00...

You kidding me the readme mod date is the 17th and all the tracks were
compiled on the 16th!!! Well I guess we gotta wait for Papy to make a great
modern F1 sim...

Jon

by **Jeff Vince** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>Forget anything I've ever said about Papy resting on its laurels -- if
>this is true about GP3, then Mr. Crammond's laurels must have bedsores.

I appreciate that coming from you, John. :)

It's funny, people say that about Papyrus, but just think of the
lineage of Papyrus open-wheel sims:
1989 - Indy 500 - the Simulation
late '93 - ICR1 (plus Indy and other tracks in May '94)
(fairly comparable to GP1)
late '95 - ICR2 (hi-res graphics & new physics)
late '96 - ICR2-3D (Rendition 3D enhanced)
late '98 - GPL (revolutionary - no other word for it)
(new physics, graphics, and online racing all in one package)

Crammond has:
Jan '92 - GP1
July '96 - GP2
July 2000 - GP3 (GP 2.5?)

IMO, Kaemmer has come a lot further in 11 years (or just 7 if you
start with ICR1, my first sim) than Crammond has in 8 1/2 years.
While people slam Papyrus for using the same old game engine ("old
wine in new bottles"), I think that applies a lot more to G.C.
Crammond does a great job of making "accessible" sims, and GP3 will
most likely be a big seller as a result, but the new ground is being
broken in the Papyrus sims.

Oh, and I hear Papyrus has put out a few taxi-cab sims in that same
period, too. ;)

To top it off, Sierra has also distributed SODA Off-Road Racing and
Viper Racing, a couple of very nice "little" sims (said in the
appreciative way people refer to low-budget "little" films, ie: great
results, particularly in consideration of minimal resources).

We may not get a new CART sim every year or two <sob>, but Papyrus
hasn't done too bad...

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

by **Jeff Vince** » Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:00:00

On Sat, 22 Jul 2000 00:14:41 -0500, rrevved

>>I still live in hope that Crammond hasn't made his first imperfect game.

>GP2 -certainly- wasn't perfect when it was released,
>since no one had enough processor speed to properly
>run it.

But they might by now. :)

I think stuff like the game time-clock being uncoupled from real
time (ie: slowing down time to make a given frame rate) and the replay
glitches (things happened differently in replays than the just had in
the game) were more serious problems.

And the fact that G.C. never patches.

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

by **m.seer** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

The first perfect game has yet to be released!

MS

by **TRUSRS** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **Eldre** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>Just a note about the sound. Is anyone here still using the original GPL
>sounds?

:::raises hand:::
Wait, I installed a louder 'tire squeal' sound, but that's it. Does that
count?

Eldred

--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>I will. I deleted the F12000 two days after installing it. Only bought it
>after the unofficial patch came out. I don't even tape music or burn copies
>of it (can you say the same thing, Mr. Moralist?).

You don't even make a tape of music you own to listen to in your car? Assuming
you HAVE a tape player in your car...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Erwa** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

When i think that it takes 4 years for GC to make a GP 2.5.....................
It's pathetic. Hoping that papy will release a modern F1 sim one day.

rec.autos.simulators

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