rec.autos.simulators

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

Greg Cisk

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Greg Cisk » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00



> >Whereas in ICR or ICR2, I found
> >it much smoother looking (and driving) at 20 fps, and even playable at
> >less than 15 fps (this is going back some years).

> I still disagree. I remember having to run ICR2 and N2 in 320x200, as
> it was the only way to get a really solid frame-rate.

Maybe you are a little too "freaked" about insisting on glassy smooth
framerates before a racing sim is even worthy of your consideration?
Yep... I think you are way too intolerant to what you conceive to be
crappy framerates. 300x200 in Nascar 2... Haha.

I did a F12K race yesterday starting from the rear. On the grid, the
fps was 13. The start went fine and the rest of the race was around
18-19fps. I had a whole lot of fun, and finished in second and the
framerate and my racing experience was perfectly acceptable at
those numbers.

Of course I could have been focusing on what the numbers were
and had a miserable time. But regardless of the numbers, the
race was very smooth. If I didn't have numbers I would not have
realized that the fps was below 20-25fps.

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Please reply to: cisko[AT] ix [dot] netcom [dot] com

Jo Hels

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Jo Hels » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00



That's not how it was done. Witches were supposed to be supernaturally
light. Hence the use of "witch-ballances" (is that the word in
English??) In theory, they were supposed to float on water, even with
something heavy attached. So what they did was attaching a heavy stone
to the witch and throwing her into a lake or something.

If she didn't sink, she was a witch and she was burned. If she sunk,
too bad....    :-) Anyway: her possessions were then sold or
something.

Those middle-age people were really smart <g>

JoH

Michael E. Carve

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Michael E. Carve » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00


% If she didn't sink, she was a witch and she was burned. If she sunk,
% too bad....    :-) Anyway: her possessions were then sold or
% something.

Or a duck <G>

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Chuck Kandle

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Chuck Kandle » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00



> >Whereas in ICR or ICR2, I found
> >it much smoother looking (and driving) at 20 fps, and even playable at
> >less than 15 fps (this is going back some years).

> I still disagree. I remember having to run ICR2 and N2 in 320x200, as
> it was the only way to get a really solid frame-rate.

If you felt a compulsion to go 320x200 in N2 & ICR2 for frame rate's
sake, all I can say is you're way too hung up on the numbers.  Turn off
the bloomin' FPS display, loosen the underwear, and actually *enjoy*
yourself for once!  You may find that once you peel your face from the
#'s, you can actually enjoy a lot of these titles.  Without going blind
at 320x200 too!

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195

Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at:
http://topgear.dhs.org/  Come on & join the fun!

They'll call you names
And spit in your face,
But legends never die.   --Gene Simmons

Dave Henri

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Dave Henri » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00

  I had this situation with ICR2 before I finally upgraded to a P200mmx
with a Rendition card.
  I would qualify at Michigan. at or near the pole.  Blast away with a
smooth driving experience.  After a bunch of laps I would catch up to
the backmarkers and then the trouble began.  Smooth laps became suddenly
waaay over-compensated as I tried to match my previous inputs with the
now slightly jerky screen.  9 times out of 10 I would loose it or hit a
car and end up far behind, and unable to match the earlier pace I set.
Half brain\Half frame rate.  When I caught up to the backmarkers my
framerate would dive and I couldn't control the dang thing like before.
All that went away after the R card was installed.
dave henrie



> > >Whereas in ICR or ICR2, I found
> > >it much smoother looking (and driving) at 20 fps, and even playable at
> > >less than 15 fps (this is going back some years).

> > I still disagree. I remember having to run ICR2 and N2 in 320x200, as
> > it was the only way to get a really solid frame-rate.

> If you felt a compulsion to go 320x200 in N2 & ICR2 for frame rate's
> sake, all I can say is you're way too hung up on the numbers.  Turn off
> the bloomin' FPS display, loosen the underwear, and actually *enjoy*
> yourself for once!  You may find that once you peel your face from the
> #'s, you can actually enjoy a lot of these titles.  Without going blind
> at 320x200 too!

> --
> Chuck Kandler  #70
> K&S Racing
> http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195

> Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at:
> http://topgear.dhs.org/  Come on & join the fun!

> They'll call you names
> And spit in your face,
> But legends never die.   --Gene Simmons

Eldre

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Eldre » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00



>>From all the posts I've read in the last few weeks, frame rates seem lower
>>with TNT and GeForce owners than Voodoo.

>The point is they are unacceptably low (for many people) on ALL cards,
>even running on powerhouse systems like yours, and even on Voodoo
>cards. Everytime I see someone saying the framerate is good on their
>Voodoo they are like "Oh it's great, I tweaked the hell out of it and
>got it up to 25 fps." 25 fps is not great, it's a poorly optimized
>graphics engine.

>Joe McGinn
>_____________________
>Radical Entertainment

The problem is, frame rate smoothness(and eye-candy) is subjective.  What might
be totally unacceptable for you or me might be great for someone else...  The
actual numbers, we can agree on.  The *interpretation* of those numbers is
another thing.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Eldre » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00


>Did he turn you into a NEWT???\
>dave :)  Henrie


>> > >--"A . . . witch?"
>> > >--"A witch!  BURN HIM!  BURRRNNNN HIM!!"

>> > A witch?  How do you *know* he's a witch...? :-)

>> 'e looks like one!

>> --



Burn 'im anyway...!
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Eldre » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00



>> >--"A . . . witch?"
>> >--"A witch!  BURN HIM!  BURRRNNNN HIM!!"

>> A witch?  How do you *know* he's a witch...? :-)

>'e looks like one!  

Did you dress him up like this...?
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Iain Mackenzi

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Iain Mackenzi » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Read the whole thread and maybe you'll appreciate the point better.
Iain


> On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:06:29 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"

> >I had a Athlon 500 when the sim first came out, and to be honest I don't
see
> >that much difference with the upgrade to 750!
> >Iain

> So, is this GOOD news or even more hopeless?   ;-)

> JoH

Chuck Kandle

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Chuck Kandle » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00


>   I had this situation with ICR2 before I finally upgraded to a P200mmx
> with a Rendition card.
>   I would qualify at Michigan. at or near the pole.  Blast away with a
> smooth driving experience.  After a bunch of laps I would catch up to
> the backmarkers and then the trouble began.  Smooth laps became suddenly
> waaay over-compensated as I tried to match my previous inputs with the
> now slightly jerky screen.  9 times out of 10 I would loose it or hit a
> car and end up far behind, and unable to match the earlier pace I set.
> Half brain\Half frame rate.  When I caught up to the backmarkers my
> framerate would dive and I couldn't control the dang thing like before.
> All that went away after the R card was installed.
> dave henrie

Hmmmmm.... interesting.  Gotta admit I never saw anything like that kind
of situation with my old P133.  But out of stupidity, and not RTFM, I
tried ICR2 initially and by default it was at 320x200.  I tried a few
times driving out at Cleveland.  Man will *that* give you a headache!  I
ended up uninstalling it for about 6 months until I discovered the -h
switch to enable the hi-res video.  A couple months after that, I got a
Sierra Screamin 3D & was really a happy camper with it from then on!

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195

Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at:
http://topgear.dhs.org/  Come on & join the fun!

They'll call you names
And spit in your face,
But legends never die.   --Gene Simmons

Chuck Kandle

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Chuck Kandle » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00




> >> >> Having MGPRS2 and GPL rated the same is pure heresy.

> >> A witch?  How do you *know* he's a witch...? :-)

> >Easy!  Hold him under water.  If he continues to breathe, he's a witch.
> >If not......

> That's not how it was done. Witches were supposed to be supernaturally
> light. Hence the use of "witch-ballances" (is that the word in
> English??) In theory, they were supposed to float on water, even with
> something heavy attached. So what they did was attaching a heavy stone
> to the witch and throwing her into a lake or something.

> If she didn't sink, she was a witch and she was burned. If she sunk,
> too bad....    :-) Anyway: her possessions were then sold or
> something.

> Those middle-age people were really smart <g>

> JoH

Hehehe..... I knew it went *something* like that!  Old age is killin the
memory. <g>

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195

Competitor in the TopGear MGPRS2 league at:
http://topgear.dhs.org/  Come on & join the fun!

They'll call you names
And spit in your face,
But legends never die.   --Gene Simmons

Iain Mackenzi

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Iain Mackenzi » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00

See William Yowell's later post on this.  You are not correct in what you
say. There is no doubt in my mind that Voodoo owners are less unhappy with
frame rate than others.
Iain



> >From all the posts I've read in the last few weeks, frame rates seem
lower
> >with TNT and GeForce owners than Voodoo.

> The point is they are unacceptably low (for many people) on ALL cards,
> even running on powerhouse systems like yours, and even on Voodoo
> cards. Everytime I see someone saying the framerate is good on their
> Voodoo they are like "Oh it's great, I tweaked the hell out of it and
> got it up to 25 fps." 25 fps is not great, it's a poorly optimized
> graphics engine.

> Joe McGinn
> _____________________
> Radical Entertainment

Greg Cisk

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Greg Cisk » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00


out.

Swell. And exactly why did we need to know about that?

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Greg Cisk

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by Greg Cisk » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00



> snip

> > For me starting races is the only issue. I am now getting 13fps
> > on the line so I can tolerate it. At least I could last night :-)

> Being able to tolerate 13 fps you must have really low *** pressure,
> or something...

Dave Masten can confirm my high tolerance to low framerates.
If I really like the game I deal with it. Over all the start is a small
slice of time. For 99% of the race everything is cool.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

mas..

F12000 - General Reaction to this game

by mas.. » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00


>Dave Masten can confirm my high tolerance to low framerates.
>If I really like the game I deal with it. Over all the start is a small
>slice of time. For 99% of the race everything is cool.

Confirmed :-)

How far back does that go?  Strike Commander? Falcon 3?  What was that horrid
WWII pacific theater Origin flight sim?

FWIW, I find 10 fps too slow to control a race start in F12K.  I probably need
closer to 20.  And I like it over 25 or so.  In GPL, I like to keep it above
25, but tolerate 20 at the start.  But I remember F15-III days when 10 FPS was
good enough for me to play the game (but I still whined about it!).


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