rec.autos.simulators

My main grip with GP3

xoc45

My main grip with GP3

by xoc45 » Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Is that you can bump other cars without penality.
Can't pass Schumi ? just bump it

Was there an utility for GP2 to adjust the damage sensibility?

ymenar

My main grip with GP3

by ymenar » Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Yes, there was.

Basically, it will be left to US, the customers to fix all the problems
because of the laziness of Geoff Crammond.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

N..

My main grip with GP3

by N.. » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Probably will be one soon. But, with the rate the AI cars bump you too
you may not want to use it.
--
Nos

Stephen Ferguso

My main grip with GP3

by Stephen Ferguso » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00



> > Was there an utility for GP2 to adjust the damage sensibility?

> Yes, there was.

> Basically, it will be left to US, the customers to fix all the problems
> because of the laziness of Geoff Crammond.

Crammond is not lazy.  Can we get this out of our systems?  He has also not
betrayed anyone.  He has made a product that will make 90% of his current
user base extremely happy.  It will not make 90% of r.a.s. readers happy.
Is it perhaps not possible to discuss the relative merits and weaknesses of
the game without always slagging off the guy?  Just because he made a
product that doesn't appeal to everyone does not mean that personally he is
a poor coder, has a rotten work ethic etc.  The man sells games.  He moves
them out by the truckload.  A *lot* of people like them.  He's done his job,
as far as I'm concerned, whether the final product is worthy of the r.a.s.
stamp of approval or not.

Stephen

Jo Hels

My main grip with GP3

by Jo Hels » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00



>>Is that you can bump other cars without penality.
>>Can't pass Schumi ? just bump it

>>Was there an utility for GP2 to adjust the damage sensibility?

>Probably will be one soon. But, with the rate the AI cars bump you too
>you may not want to use it.

With GP2edit it was possible to set seperate damage sensitivity for
individual wheels, wings.. So I reckon this will be possible for GP3,
too. Then you could make the rear less sensitive, and the front more
sensitive to solve this.

JoH

Mike Blackmor

My main grip with GP3

by Mike Blackmor » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Here Here well said sir.

Regards Mike

On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:29:30 +0200, "Stephen Ferguson"





>> > Was there an utility for GP2 to adjust the damage sensibility?

>> Yes, there was.

>> Basically, it will be left to US, the customers to fix all the problems
>> because of the laziness of Geoff Crammond.

>Crammond is not lazy.  Can we get this out of our systems?  He has also not
>betrayed anyone.  He has made a product that will make 90% of his current
>user base extremely happy.  It will not make 90% of r.a.s. readers happy.
>Is it perhaps not possible to discuss the relative merits and weaknesses of
>the game without always slagging off the guy?  Just because he made a
>product that doesn't appeal to everyone does not mean that personally he is
>a poor coder, has a rotten work ethic etc.  The man sells games.  He moves
>them out by the truckload.  A *lot* of people like them.  He's done his job,
>as far as I'm concerned, whether the final product is worthy of the r.a.s.
>stamp of approval or not.

>Stephen

Douglas Elliso

My main grip with GP3

by Douglas Elliso » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00

AT LAST - a voice of reason. Even if GP3 is just GP2.5 - WHO CARES...

For MANY years, people decalred (and many still do) GP2 as the best racing
game there is! If all we're getting is a 3D Acceleration update, and the
weather we had been missing for all this time, then THANK YOU Monsieur
Crammond.

I live in Tetbury, Gloucestershire (very small town about 25 miles
north-west of Bristol). If you look on the manual of GP1 - you'll see that
Microprose lived in Tetbury. Their offices then were TINY (I drive past them
every day - I even visited them to get a new manual for GP1 when I lost
mine!!) - Now they've gone up in the world to MUCH bigger offices and have
been bought out... WHY? Because the GP1 - GP2 (and soon) GP3 titles sell
BIG.  They sell big because, and ONLY because A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE THEM.
There's no denying that the GP3 screen shots we've seen so far are very
good.

GPL was a commercial faliure - and the reasons behind that are well known
(my opinions briefly - a) Who wants to drive 33 year old cars, b) Who wants
to spend hours practising just to get around the damn track & c) Anyone with
enough time to be able to practise a track with 150+ corners for hours on
end needs their head examined! - GPL appeals to perhaps 5% of the population
of gamers - those 5% consitute about 70-80% of RAS regulars!)

Perhaps the problem here is that GP3 is not suited toward dicussion in a
Simulator newsgroup, because it is not a simulator. It is a GAME...written
for the masses - not the impossible-to-please few.  GP3's pre-orders
outstrip entire GPL sales by a factor of 2 or more - DOESN'T THAT TELL YOU
SOMETHING!?!!?!

So, for once, RAS - take your collective heads out of your unrealistic
clouds, and realise that GP3 is going to be an enormous success, because A
LOT MORE PEOPLE will like it than ever enjoyed GPL.

Don't tell me 'You've gotta spend time to play GPL'....because - I DON'T
WANNA SPEND TIME DOING IT...it's too much like hardwork - when I can pick up
GP2 (now GP3) and drive. If I wanna spend hours tweaking stuff, then I can,
and I can do it with Rally Champ, TOCA 2, and F12000.  Now, I've got my
update to GP2 that I've waitied 4 years for - and frankly - I'm very very
happy, as are many people - and so will Crammond - because it's gonna sell
big!!

Flame away - I don't care - but it aint gonna change the FACTS!
Doug


> Here Here well said sir.

> Regards Mike

> On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:29:30 +0200, "Stephen Ferguson"




> >> > Was there an utility for GP2 to adjust the damage sensibility?

> >> Yes, there was.

> >> Basically, it will be left to US, the customers to fix all the problems
> >> because of the laziness of Geoff Crammond.

> >Crammond is not lazy.  Can we get this out of our systems?  He has also
not
> >betrayed anyone.  He has made a product that will make 90% of his current
> >user base extremely happy.  It will not make 90% of r.a.s. readers happy.
> >Is it perhaps not possible to discuss the relative merits and weaknesses
of
> >the game without always slagging off the guy?  Just because he made a
> >product that doesn't appeal to everyone does not mean that personally he
is
> >a poor coder, has a rotten work ethic etc.  The man sells games.  He
moves
> >them out by the truckload.  A *lot* of people like them.  He's done his
job,
> >as far as I'm concerned, whether the final product is worthy of the
r.a.s.
> >stamp of approval or not.

> >Stephen

Denn

My main grip with GP3

by Denn » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00


[snip sensible post]

I think the main letdown for most RAS-ers is that GP3 was
always seen as the ultimate F1 simulator, the simulator that
could topple GPL. Well, some seem to think it's not, some
(like you and me) like the game and are content with the little
flaws it has.

Dennis.

Mike Blackmor

My main grip with GP3

by Mike Blackmor » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Spot on Douglas (as ever)

My priorities

Wife.
Toddler
Work
Renovating Cottage
GP's
Beer
Beer
Beer
Sim Racing
Flight Sims

It appears to get good at GPL the list has to look like this

GPL
GPL
GPL
Prozac
Work
GP's
Beer
Beer
Beer
Toddler
Wife

Regards Mike

On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:00:57 +0100, "Douglas Ellison"


>AT LAST - a voice of reason. Even if GP3 is just GP2.5 - WHO CARES...

>For MANY years, people decalred (and many still do) GP2 as the best racing
>game there is! If all we're getting is a 3D Acceleration update, and the
>weather we had been missing for all this time, then THANK YOU Monsieur
>Crammond.

>I live in Tetbury, Gloucestershire (very small town about 25 miles
>north-west of Bristol). If you look on the manual of GP1 - you'll see that
>Microprose lived in Tetbury. Their offices then were TINY (I drive past them
>every day - I even visited them to get a new manual for GP1 when I lost
>mine!!) - Now they've gone up in the world to MUCH bigger offices and have
>been bought out... WHY? Because the GP1 - GP2 (and soon) GP3 titles sell
>BIG.  They sell big because, and ONLY because A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE THEM.
>There's no denying that the GP3 screen shots we've seen so far are very
>good.

>GPL was a commercial faliure - and the reasons behind that are well known
>(my opinions briefly - a) Who wants to drive 33 year old cars, b) Who wants
>to spend hours practising just to get around the damn track & c) Anyone with
>enough time to be able to practise a track with 150+ corners for hours on
>end needs their head examined! - GPL appeals to perhaps 5% of the population
>of gamers - those 5% consitute about 70-80% of RAS regulars!)

>Perhaps the problem here is that GP3 is not suited toward dicussion in a
>Simulator newsgroup, because it is not a simulator. It is a GAME...written
>for the masses - not the impossible-to-please few.  GP3's pre-orders
>outstrip entire GPL sales by a factor of 2 or more - DOESN'T THAT TELL YOU
>SOMETHING!?!!?!

>So, for once, RAS - take your collective heads out of your unrealistic
>clouds, and realise that GP3 is going to be an enormous success, because A
>LOT MORE PEOPLE will like it than ever enjoyed GPL.

>Don't tell me 'You've gotta spend time to play GPL'....because - I DON'T
>WANNA SPEND TIME DOING IT...it's too much like hardwork - when I can pick up
>GP2 (now GP3) and drive. If I wanna spend hours tweaking stuff, then I can,
>and I can do it with Rally Champ, TOCA 2, and F12000.  Now, I've got my
>update to GP2 that I've waitied 4 years for - and frankly - I'm very very
>happy, as are many people - and so will Crammond - because it's gonna sell
>big!!

>Flame away - I don't care - but it aint gonna change the FACTS!
>Doug



>> Here Here well said sir.

>> Regards Mike

>> On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:29:30 +0200, "Stephen Ferguson"




>> >> > Was there an utility for GP2 to adjust the damage sensibility?

>> >> Yes, there was.

>> >> Basically, it will be left to US, the customers to fix all the problems
>> >> because of the laziness of Geoff Crammond.

>> >Crammond is not lazy.  Can we get this out of our systems?  He has also
>not
>> >betrayed anyone.  He has made a product that will make 90% of his current
>> >user base extremely happy.  It will not make 90% of r.a.s. readers happy.
>> >Is it perhaps not possible to discuss the relative merits and weaknesses
>of
>> >the game without always slagging off the guy?  Just because he made a
>> >product that doesn't appeal to everyone does not mean that personally he
>is
>> >a poor coder, has a rotten work ethic etc.  The man sells games.  He
>moves
>> >them out by the truckload.  A *lot* of people like them.  He's done his
>job,
>> >as far as I'm concerned, whether the final product is worthy of the
>r.a.s.
>> >stamp of approval or not.

>> >Stephen

Greg Cisk

My main grip with GP3

by Greg Cisk » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00


not

After a few months I think it will be out of our systems.

I think if you compare GP2 with GP3 it proves all of your points that
he is a poor coder.

--


Greg Cisk

My main grip with GP3

by Greg Cisk » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Your right. It won't change facts. GP3 is GP2.5 :-)

--


Mike Blackmor

My main grip with GP3

by Mike Blackmor » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Is that a bad thing Greg ?

For me no.

For you yes.

I think the world is big enougth to accomodate both points of view.
Not sure about this group though ; )

Regards Mike





>> Flame away - I don't care - but it aint gonna change the FACTS!

>Your right. It won't change facts. GP3 is GP2.5 :-)

Stephen Ferguso

My main grip with GP3

by Stephen Ferguso » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Mr. "Voice of Reason" (so I was called - ha!) here again.  I think people
are perfectly entitled to go into very lengthy discussions about the
relative merits of GP3 as a sim.  That's sort of the purpose of this group.
They can also duck the standard "it's only a game" line because they are
perfectly entitled to hold their sims to a high standard and discuss the
extremely technical aspects of them.  I don't begrudge people the time they
pour into their hobby.  Stamp collectors, chess players and model car
builders all burn the midnight oil, so what the hell.  It's not my cuppa to
get to that level of dedication, to rise above midfield in GPL, because my
time doesn't allow, but I don't necessarily think the GPL ***s are
wackos.

However, what *does* bother me is the hyperbolic statements about people
gnashing their teeth and tearing their clothing because Crammond has
forsaken them.  The thinly veiled arrogance that the world owes them another
ber-sim.  But I already mentioned that.  Maybe the Wests will deliver, and
then we can all get really e***d and analyze it, compare lap times, swap
hints about how to exploit the latest trick afforded us by ultra-realistic
physics modelling.

What also bothers me is that the select few who are frothing at the mouth
over this whole thing sincerely believe that they, and they alone, can
decide what exactly a "sim" is.  It is not written in stone, it evolves
through the views of every newsgroup member.  I have read a lot of posts
from people who have decided for them that what really makes a racing
simulator authentic is, in this case, the inclusion of unprecedented weather
effects, with standing water, a drying line that responds to where you drive
etc.  If we are going to get our knickers in a twist about how well circuits
are portrayed, how well the inertia of a Lotus 49 freewheel is modelled,
then can we also not get all e***d about something GP3 does well without
others telling us that nothing else matters if it isn't "simmy" enough?

Overall, most of the comments here have been quite objective.  Filtering
through the hooting and hollering I have been able to determine that:

GP3 will not take the place of GPL for satisfying my engineer's urge to "see
all the parts turn the right way"
GP3 will run nicely on my mid-range system, thanks.
GP3 has dodgy multiplayer, which is less of an issue for someone who has
expensive phone access and little free time
GP3 will give me all the things I liked in GP2, and a hell of a weather
angle as well.

July 28th, I'm in the shop.
Stephen


> AT LAST - a voice of reason. Even if GP3 is just GP2.5 - WHO CARES...

> For MANY years, people decalred (and many still do) GP2 as the best racing
> game there is! If all we're getting is a 3D Acceleration update, and the
> weather we had been missing for all this time, then THANK YOU Monsieur
> Crammond.

> I live in Tetbury, Gloucestershire (very small town about 25 miles
> north-west of Bristol). If you look on the manual of GP1 - you'll see that
> Microprose lived in Tetbury. Their offices then were TINY (I drive past
them
> every day - I even visited them to get a new manual for GP1 when I lost
> mine!!) - Now they've gone up in the world to MUCH bigger offices and have
> been bought out... WHY? Because the GP1 - GP2 (and soon) GP3 titles sell
> BIG.  They sell big because, and ONLY because A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE THEM.
> There's no denying that the GP3 screen shots we've seen so far are very
> good.

> GPL was a commercial faliure - and the reasons behind that are well known
> (my opinions briefly - a) Who wants to drive 33 year old cars, b) Who
wants
> to spend hours practising just to get around the damn track & c) Anyone
with
> enough time to be able to practise a track with 150+ corners for hours on
> end needs their head examined! - GPL appeals to perhaps 5% of the
population
> of gamers - those 5% consitute about 70-80% of RAS regulars!)

> Perhaps the problem here is that GP3 is not suited toward dicussion in a
> Simulator newsgroup, because it is not a simulator. It is a GAME...written
> for the masses - not the impossible-to-please few.  GP3's pre-orders
> outstrip entire GPL sales by a factor of 2 or more - DOESN'T THAT TELL YOU
> SOMETHING!?!!?!

> So, for once, RAS - take your collective heads out of your unrealistic
> clouds, and realise that GP3 is going to be an enormous success, because A
> LOT MORE PEOPLE will like it than ever enjoyed GPL.

> Don't tell me 'You've gotta spend time to play GPL'....because - I DON'T
> WANNA SPEND TIME DOING IT...it's too much like hardwork - when I can pick
up
> GP2 (now GP3) and drive. If I wanna spend hours tweaking stuff, then I
can,
> and I can do it with Rally Champ, TOCA 2, and F12000.  Now, I've got my
> update to GP2 that I've waitied 4 years for - and frankly - I'm very very
> happy, as are many people - and so will Crammond - because it's gonna sell
> big!!

> Flame away - I don't care - but it aint gonna change the FACTS!
> Doug



> > Here Here well said sir.

> > Regards Mike

> > On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:29:30 +0200, "Stephen Ferguson"




> > >> > Was there an utility for GP2 to adjust the damage sensibility?

> > >> Yes, there was.

> > >> Basically, it will be left to US, the customers to fix all the
problems
> > >> because of the laziness of Geoff Crammond.

> > >Crammond is not lazy.  Can we get this out of our systems?  He has also
> not
> > >betrayed anyone.  He has made a product that will make 90% of his
current
> > >user base extremely happy.  It will not make 90% of r.a.s. readers
happy.
> > >Is it perhaps not possible to discuss the relative merits and
weaknesses
> of
> > >the game without always slagging off the guy?  Just because he made a
> > >product that doesn't appeal to everyone does not mean that personally
he
> is
> > >a poor coder, has a rotten work ethic etc.  The man sells games.  He
> moves
> > >them out by the truckload.  A *lot* of people like them.  He's done his
> job,
> > >as far as I'm concerned, whether the final product is worthy of the
> r.a.s.
> > >stamp of approval or not.

> > >Stephen

m.seer

My main grip with GP3

by m.seer » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00

If GP3 was marketed as a 15.00 upgrade for GP2 I'd say it was a ***y good
job. However. The premium price of 30.00 for a facelift I.E. 3d and weather
effects seems a bit stiff for a title which has not even been updated
sufficiently to allow proper use of contemporary hardware such as split axix
wheels. Crammond consulted with Microsoft and still failed to implement a
controller input system, allowing the z axis to be used!
I'd hardly call something as fundamental as primary input a little flaw!

MS



> [snip sensible post]

> I think the main letdown for most RAS-ers is that GP3 was
> always seen as the ultimate F1 simulator, the simulator that
> could topple GPL. Well, some seem to think it's not, some
> (like you and me) like the game and are content with the little
> flaws it has.

> Dennis.

Ian

My main grip with GP3

by Ian » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Actually for GPLers, work comes pretty close to the bottom along with the
wife and toddlers , but otherwise spot on !! :)

--
Ian Parker
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."

<email invalid due to spam>

Mike Blackmore wrote


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