rec.autos.simulators

by **Goy Larse** » Sun, 19 May 2002 07:42:26

> And anyway, would you rather be as 'famous' as Stirling Moss, or as
> successful as Mike Hawthorn? Be _honest_.

If I could be famous for doing what Stirling Moss has done, with the
same class that he has done it, I'd love to be famous like Stirling
Moss, he even got a very famous win co-driving with Jenks

Juan Manuel Fangio thought very highly of Stirling Moss, I think his
words was something like "the best driver ever not to win a drivers
championship"

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **John Pancoas** » Sun, 19 May 2002 07:58:21

Lol ! That compliment and fifty cents will buy you a cup of coffee <G>
I like the saying, "Second place is the first loser." :)

-John

by **Goy Larse** » Sun, 19 May 2002 08:30:17

> > Juan Manuel Fangio thought very highly of Stirling Moss, I think his
> > words was something like "the best driver ever not to win a drivers
> > championship"

> Lol ! That compliment and fifty cents will buy you a cup of coffee <G>
> I like the saying, "Second place is the first loser." :)

That's true of course, but there's no question that some really great
drivers never got the most of their talent for whatever reason, and one
of Stirling's problems was of course the great man himself, Juan Manuel
Fangio, it's not easy beating a man like that, ask Prost, he was up
against Senna :-)

So while the record books shows Stirling as coming up short, his skills
was held in very high regards by his peers and he is respected for
conducting himself with class, in my book that counts for something,
especially when you look at the names which he can call his peers

Man, it's too ***y late for these kinds of discussions, I'm off to bed

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **B.Farme** » Sun, 19 May 2002 08:31:17

> > Juan Manuel Fangio thought very highly of Stirling Moss, I think his
> > words was something like "the best driver ever not to win a drivers
> > championship"

> Lol ! That compliment and fifty cents will buy you a cup of coffee <G>
> I like the saying, "Second place is the first loser." :)

> -John

Yeah... & I used to think that Lombardi had it right when he was quoted as
saying that "Winning ain't everything, it's the ONLY thing!"

As I've gotten older, tho, I'm thinking that maybe I want to be thought of
as a "good" guy, maybe even a sort of gentleman, not a self-centered,
ego-centric, know-it-all, etc., snob (admittedly a very talented one) from
Team Lightspeed... errrrr... I mean Ferrari (oops, wrong thread) ;)

Brian

by **John Pancoas** » Sun, 19 May 2002 09:14:31

> > > Juan Manuel Fangio thought very highly of Stirling Moss, I think his
> > > words was something like "the best driver ever not to win a drivers
> > > championship"

> > Lol ! That compliment and fifty cents will buy you a cup of coffee
<G>
> > I like the saying, "Second place is the first loser." :)

> That's true of course, but there's no question that some really great
> drivers never got the most of their talent for whatever reason, and one
> of Stirling's problems was of course the great man himself, Juan Manuel
> Fangio, it's not easy beating a man like that, ask Prost, he was up
> against Senna :-)

> So while the record books shows Stirling as coming up short, his skills
> was held in very high regards by his peers and he is respected for
> conducting himself with class, in my book that counts for something,
> especially when you look at the names which he can call his peers

> Man, it's too ***y late for these kinds of discussions, I'm off to bed

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> --Groucho Marx--

Agreed Goy. Just joking more than trying to make a point :)

-John

by **John Pancoas** » Sun, 19 May 2002 09:19:40

> > > Juan Manuel Fangio thought very highly of Stirling Moss, I think his
> > > words was something like "the best driver ever not to win a drivers
> > > championship"

> > Lol ! That compliment and fifty cents will buy you a cup of coffee
<G>
> > I like the saying, "Second place is the first loser." :)

> > -John

> Yeah... & I used to think that Lombardi had it right when he was quoted as
> saying that "Winning ain't everything, it's the ONLY thing!"

> As I've gotten older, tho, I'm thinking that maybe I want to be thought of
> as a "good" guy, maybe even a sort of gentleman, not a self-centered,
> ego-centric, know-it-all, etc., snob (admittedly a very talented one) from
> Team Lightspeed... errrrr... I mean Ferrari (oops, wrong thread) ;)

> Brian

Who's with Team-Lightspeed ?

-John

- Show quoted text -

by **B.Farme** » Sun, 19 May 2002 12:26:37

> > > > Juan Manuel Fangio thought very highly of Stirling Moss, I think his
> > > > words was something like "the best driver ever not to win a drivers
> > > > championship"

> > > Lol ! That compliment and fifty cents will buy you a cup of coffee
> <G>
> > > I like the saying, "Second place is the first loser." :)

> > > -John

> > Yeah... & I used to think that Lombardi had it right when he was quoted
as
> > saying that "Winning ain't everything, it's the ONLY thing!"

> > As I've gotten older, tho, I'm thinking that maybe I want to be thought
of
> > as a "good" guy, maybe even a sort of gentleman, not a self-centered,
> > ego-centric, know-it-all, etc., snob (admittedly a very talented one)
from
> > Team Lightspeed... errrrr... I mean Ferrari (oops, wrong thread) ;)

> > Brian

> Who's with Team-Lightspeed ?

> -John

John, it was my attempt at humor which failed miserably, 'cause I meant to
say Team Brickyard (NOT Lightspeed, sry Bob & Matt).

FWIW, it was a reference to Amish's complaints that N2002 is buggy because,
in his opinion, it is too easy for mere mortals to be competitive.

IMHO, N2002 is pretty realistic if we are going to compare it to Nascar, &
not some elite group of sim racers. Seems to me that Nascar goes out of its
way to keep the fields competitive. Again, just my opinion.

I should have responded to that thread, but lost it, & thought I was being
cute by responding here.

I need some sleep... ;-/

Brian

by **John Pancoas** » Sun, 19 May 2002 13:33:09

> > > > > Juan Manuel Fangio thought very highly of Stirling Moss, I think
his
> > > > > words was something like "the best driver ever not to win a
drivers
> > > > > championship"

> > > > Lol ! That compliment and fifty cents will buy you a cup of
coffee
> > <G>
> > > > I like the saying, "Second place is the first loser." :)

> > > > -John

> > > Yeah... & I used to think that Lombardi had it right when he was
quoted
> as
> > > saying that "Winning ain't everything, it's the ONLY thing!"

> > > As I've gotten older, tho, I'm thinking that maybe I want to be
thought
> of
> > > as a "good" guy, maybe even a sort of gentleman, not a self-centered,
> > > ego-centric, know-it-all, etc., snob (admittedly a very talented one)
> from
> > > Team Lightspeed... errrrr... I mean Ferrari (oops, wrong thread) ;)

> > > Brian

> > Who's with Team-Lightspeed ?

> > -John

> John, it was my attempt at humor which failed miserably, 'cause I meant to
> say Team Brickyard (NOT Lightspeed, sry Bob & Matt).

> FWIW, it was a reference to Amish's complaints that N2002 is buggy
because,
> in his opinion, it is too easy for mere mortals to be competitive.

> IMHO, N2002 is pretty realistic if we are going to compare it to Nascar, &
> not some elite group of sim racers. Seems to me that Nascar goes out of
its
> way to keep the fields competitive. Again, just my opinion.

> I should have responded to that thread, but lost it, & thought I was being
> cute by responding here.

> I need some sleep... ;-/

> Brian

Ah, ok, thanks :)

-John

by **Goy Larse** » Sun, 19 May 2002 17:44:12

> Agreed Goy. Just joking more than trying to make a point :)

I kinda thought you were, like I said, too ***y late...:-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by JM » Sun, 19 May 2002 18:49:16

>> Or the best, depending upon your point of view. The fact is that
>> almost everybody in the UK at least has heard of Stirling Moss, I'd
>> guess the
> vast
>> majority don't have the first clue who Mike Hawthorn is/was. Maybe
>> "winning" isn't everything after all.
>> I'm assuming by your critisism you meant that stirling lost out by
>> not being determined to win at any cost.
>> F1 champions come and go, a legend like Stirling lives on.

>> Make of that, what you will :o)

>> cheers
>> John

> And anyway, would you rather be as 'famous' as Stirling Moss, or as
> successful as Mike Hawthorn? Be _honest_.

"For Moss the manner in which the battle was fought was as important as the
outcome, and this sporting attitude cost him the 1958 World Championship
when he stood up for rival Mike Hawthorn, who faced a penalty in Portugal
that would, in retrospect, have denied him the points that he needed to
beat Moss. Stirling never for one moment entertained any thought of gaining
an advantage in such a way, and in any case his natural sense of justice
would not have allowed him to see Hawthorn unjustly penalized. So he
stepped forward to defend him. Hawthorn subsequently went on to beat Moss
by a mere point, even though he had only won one race that year to Moss's
four. It was sufficient to make Mike Hawthorn Britain's first World
Champion."

What amazes me, is that you used this as an argument as to how you think
Stirling is the LAST person who should criticize unsportsmanly conduct.
When clearly, it's the perfect argument to why Stirling would be the FIRST
EVERY TIME to speak against race fixing and poor conduct.

As to your question, I'll take the fame, the fortune, the love of my
country and the knighthood over the line in a history book and a gold cup
on the mantlepiece.

cheers
John

by **Nick** » Mon, 20 May 2002 01:18:05

I was just making the point that Stirling says that, but when he was
actually in that kind of situation (well, actually it was his choice to go
out of his way to get Mike Hawthorn reinstated), he did the opposite. They
have a name for people who say one thing but do the other - politicians. I
don't want politics to get more involved in F1 than they already are
(pushing F1 to the far east due to tobacco sponsorship laws and suchlike).

Stirling Moss was a legend. I commend what he did back in '58. But I really
hate people who have quotes in their signature line... <g>

--
Nick

"The overriding purpose of software is
to be useful, rather than correct."
John Carmack, id Software

by **Goy Larse** » Mon, 20 May 2002 06:07:34

> I was just making the point that Stirling says that, but when he was
> actually in that kind of situation (well, actually it was his choice to go
> out of his way to get Mike Hawthorn reinstated), he did the opposite. They
> have a name for people who say one thing but do the other - politicians. I
> don't want politics to get more involved in F1 than they already are
> (pushing F1 to the far east due to tobacco sponsorship laws and suchlike).

Excuse me my good man, but your way of looking at things is somewhat
peculiar I must say

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Uncle Feste** » Mon, 20 May 2002 06:54:37

> Stirling Moss was a legend. I commend what he did back in '58. But I really
> hate people who have quotes in their signature line... <g>

> --
> Nick

> "The overriding purpose of software is
> to be useful, rather than correct."
> John Carmack, id Software

You talkin' to *me*? <g> Uh-huh. Gotcha, politician. :-)

--

Fester

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the
citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a
double-edged sword. It both emboldens the ***, just as it narrows the
mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the
*** boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no
need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry,
infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their
rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I
have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

by **Nick** » Mon, 20 May 2002 22:37:12

My way of looking at things is extremely clear. My way of expressing these
thoughts in a message are the problem. <g>

That Moss -> politics link was extremely bad, I must say. I kinda moved on
to a different subject entirely halfway through my post... but never mind.

The fact remains it happened, and it is now 7 days since it happened, and we
are still arguing about it. Whatever one man says about the stupid Ferrari
call is incidental. I am sure there are just as many people supporting
Ferrari (although I can't think why they don't see the other side) as
protecting their 'asset' which they pay so much a year. Eddie Irvine is one
off the top of my head, and I personally would say he would be a better
person to quote from, as he is trying to race in these times of sponsorship
and vast sums of money depending on success (whatever his viewpoint).

NB// I don't want to start an argument about Moss and Irvine: which is the
best to quote from, it's just a top-of-the-head thing and it's not
important.

When somebody quotes from one singular person to back up their thoughts on
the subject, they should be working for a newspaper here in the UK, rather
than partaking in a friendly newsgroup where people can share their own
opinions and discuss logically the effect of such a stupid decision.

I haven't seen any quotes from any of the other team bosses (I would
especially like to hear what Patrick Head and Frank Williams have to say on
the matter), but Ron Dennis is somebody whose opinion is something I could
do without (regardless of his orientation on the matter).

Lets get back to the much more major issue here - the actual Ferrari call,
instead of what one man (even if he is a legend) thinks about it. I prefer
to come to my own conclusions (you learn that if you grow up in the UK with
the heavily biased media).

PS// <g> : don't take this to heavily, guys... you are stopping me develop
my sim with all this posting :-)

--
Nick

"The overriding purpose of software is
to be useful, rather than correct."
John Carmack, id Software

by **Rafe McAuliff** » Tue, 21 May 2002 21:56:52

Haven't had a chance to try, been way too busy at work and stuff to
check it out. Maybe soon...

Rafe Mc

On Fri, 17 May 2002 18:15:40 +0100, "Craig"

>Rafe,
>Did you solve that shutdown problem??

>Craig

>> LOL, interesting protest :)

>> Rafe Mc

>> >http://www.theregus.com/content/6/24934.html

rec.autos.simulators

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