rec.autos.simulators

I agree that relaxed physics bring the game closer to arcade but my point is
that having a physics model at all and one that rewards proper drivng
technique is what keeps OF1R a sim lite and not arcade racer.  Example:  In
OF1R if you brake in a straight line and turn in hitting the late apex you
are rewarded with more speed on the straight and thus can overtake another
car.  In a PURE arcade racer you can go full throttle hitting the geometric
apex or using the proper driving technique I mention above and achieve the
same top speed on the straight.  Arcade racing is not DRIVING it is
steering.  That's why easy physics to me is still a sim lite rather than
arcade and can be fun to play.  You see the rewards of good technique
without the disaster of slight errors.  Like I said before, it's a nice
break from GPL but will NEVER replace GPL :-).

I understand where your coming from and from a certain point of view,
you're right.

Randy
Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder

Your original opinion sounded authentic, this sounds like  "a feeble
attempt" to fit in with the village know-it-alls.

There's an underlying attitude within this group of "if it ain't GPL it's
crap".  Well, GPL is targeted to a very small minority of racing simulation
buyers.  The majority of the world wants somewhat realistic, but more
importantly a fun game.  GPL may be fun, but most people don't care for the
level of detail and the amount of work it takes to make it fun.  The keyword
here is game, not simulation but game.  Now, this group is dedicated to
simulators but it's also the only place to turn to for info on driving games as
a whole.  So there are a wide variety of interests and opinions, it would be
nice if there would be a bit more tolerance.

Can't we all agree that the term "simulation" means different things to
different folks and leave it at that?  When judging a game you need to judge it
by it's merits and it's intended audience and not by some nonsense definition of
what a "pure simulation" should be.

-Andrew

I got your point, but IMO this shows a slight overestimation of  GPL
graphics as well as a very, very big overestimation of NFS physics. ;>).
To state it clear: IMO a reduced physics model is better than the strange
physics model of an unknown virtual planet (like in NFS).

IMO OF1R is clearly an arcade racer, which is fun, if you are able to
disregard it's flaws, but I have to state one thing here: I've been to
Hockenheim this weekend and immediately after that tried out OF1R. At least
the track seems to be on the right side, the narrowness is as well modelled
as the environment.
But, as far as the AI is concerned: I guess they will outlap even Mika
H?kkinen by seconds ...

CU
Zolli

Bye Coco

Brian

CART Precision Racing is supposed to be a sim, but the physichs fails and
it is kind of undrivable. Is it arcade then ?

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove spam when replying

I can't help but think that you must be some sort of Eidos PR dude.
This game is not any different than Psygnosis' lame attempts in the
past or all those other lookalike simpleracers. Even worse IMO
graphics are seriously outdated, not to say ugly - physics, yes there
is something like that but I'm just not sure from which world.
And then the 'AI' (or whatever you want to call it) with their weird
attempts at driving and ridiculous lap times - great game? gimme a
break...
Quite frankly there are better alternatives to waste your money if
you're after modern F1 games, even if you don't like the realism
factor of the real sims like MGP or GP2.

--Tel

No one is arguing that the graphics are the best, but they are far
from ugly.  That's subjective opinion though and you're entitled to
yours.

That's a gross exaggeration.

A great game is a game that someone enjoys.  Many people are enjoying
this one.

GP2 requires DOS to run and has its share of problems.  MGP has its
"digital throttle" problem, along with flypaper off the road.  If MGP
is a "real sim" then please tell me why it is that in real Formula One
you see drivers putting wheels off all the time and losing almost no
time as a result.

Randy
Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder

Right, the off-track slow down is a bit too much but then again it's
no rallye sim either so that doesn't really bother me. There's no
problem to drive in a halfway realistic manner within the bounds of
the track, it just takes a lot of practice some people apparently
can't or don't want to go through. And yes, you can run the curbs in
MGP (although you won't do it as much as in reality) something I found
impossible to do in OF1R simply because the wheel suddenly pops up
into the view by what seems like half a meter. That not only looks
silly it's also very distracting while driving. There are countless
such things, like that ridiculous grip level, the cars spinning around
their center (and magically manage to always point in the same
direction after that), laptimes beyond any reality, the very
forgivable 'damage model', the seriously bad track layouts, a really
pathetic implementation of the regulations ('official' license?) and
many more flaws.
I don't know why you defend such a mediocre (at best) game like OF1R
so much, can it be it's because you were in fact almost the only one
who gave it a positive review and are now kinda afraid to admit that
this game is not what the first sight implied? ;)

--Tel

Racing is about pushing the edge.  It means using up all the track.
Every driver in real life I've ever seen tackle a road course uses up
every bit of track he can, and often pushing means crossing over that
line and getting a tire in the dirt.  It can also mean using the exit
curbing and getting back onto the road, and sometimes that means when
you run out of curb you aren't ENTIRELY back on the road.  Happens all
the time.  I want to push the absolute limit and use up every inch of
curb.  And putting a wheel an inch off line and suddenly slowing just
saps the realism from the game in a big hurry.  I feel more on the
limit in OF1R realizing that if I go off too much I'll lose my CONTROL
of the car (as opposed to speed) than I do in MGP/F1RS.  Yes, the car
is easier to drive because you have more grip and the throttle is less
touchy, but it is STILL possible to drive at the limit of ITS physics
model, and also at the limit of the track, and that's what makes it
fun.  MGP just takes the desire to "challenge the track" away.

I agree with you on this and pointed it out in my review.  However,
I'm so used to it now I don't notice it.  It certainly doesn't prevent
me from hopping curbs!

It's not THAT ridiculous, but it is exaggerated.

Just like a low-speed spin in MGP.

Some yes, some no.

You mean like the one in GPL, or F1RS, NASCAR 2or many of the other
sims that let you bang up the car a bit before damage really becomes
apparent?

How so?  I know of a couple of areas of inaccuracy, but no more than
any other F1 sim, including Psygnosis', Gp2 or F1RS.

I have received e-mails supporting my review from all kinds of people,
from those who hated the demo to those who never tried the demo and
liked it.  There were also some people who almost didn't buy it
because of the newsgroup and then did anyway and found they liked it.
If you check the dejanews archive you'll find that several people
publicly commented about this.  I have to write my reviews for both
the *** sim fan and the average gamer.  I let both audiences know
in the review what to expect.  Clearly you are one of the people who
can not have fun beneath a certain level of brute realism.  That's
fine.

I spend a LOT of time with a game before I write a review.  By the
time I start writing it, I KNOW whether I like the game or not.  I've
got nothing invested in liking or hating a game.  I also know
something about driving physics.  I've done the classroom material at
Skip Barber and done my laps at Laguna Seca in both my own car and the
Skip Barber Formula Fords.  I also get a chance to play every
racing/driving game out there pretty much, so I have a good basis for
comparison.  When something stinks, I say it stinks.  When something
has positive aspects, I say so.  I also look at how the company is
marketing the product.  When they promise superb realism and don't
deliver it, I point that out.  But I also am not a member of the Holy
Order of Simulation Brotherhood which takes anything less than Grand
Prix Legend fidelity and trashes it as "arcade."  I didn't have to
work as hard to drive OF1R as F1RS, that's true.  On the other hand, I
enjoyed the game a lot more.   I still drove as hard as I could, and
often too hard--and crashed, but I had fun with the game and enjoyed
once again flirting with curbs, braking as late as possible, rolling
smoothly into the throttle, and looking into the turns as I tossed the
car around.  I was having FUN.  I was not about to lie to everyone to
impress some *** who look down their noses at everything non-GPL.
I love GPL as much as any of the *** here, but I made it
crystal-clear in the review who I thought would like OF1R and who
would not.  Clearly you are the kind of person who does not.  I have
no problem with you not liking it.  But you've not refuted ANYTHING in
my review that is objective, only disagreed with the fact that I
*like* the game, just as I liked F1RS, MGP and GP2, in spite of the
fact that ALL of them had many of the problems you attribute to OF1R!

Randy

Randy Magruder
http://www.racesimcentral.net/