rec.autos.simulators

Surely to answer this question, you have to concentrate on which game/sim
SIMULATES driving the best? Not which one has the best graphics, or which
one has the highest frame rate?
And that has to be GP2!!!!!!

Forget ***frame rates, forget theres no weather, forget going round and
round in little ovals, and concentrate on the superb PHYSICS of actually
driving the car.

The way the car actually handles, the way it "feels", the way altering
the set-up actually alters the way it feels.
Every detail of the cars dynamics/physics are absolutely correct.

The way you can actually get the back end out of shape and recover it, or
even hold it like that, the way you can feather the throttle, lock the
brakes, understeer, oversteer, feel the rises and falls of the road, the
way the fuel and tyre wear affects the handling, the infinite number of
adjustments you can make to every aspect of the car, the way the car
keeps you busy, theres always something to think about.
Yes, you can do this in other car sims, but in GP2 it is just spot on.

GP2 as a GAME, is not tops, due to the lack of weather, tyre choice,
adequate frame rate, etc, etc, but, as a MOTOR RACING SIMULATOR, it is
the DOGS B*LL*CKS!!!!!

The people that made GP2, not only know how to make a computer simulator
of motor racing, they know ABOUT MOTOR RACING!!!!

**Peter**  #:?)  

(snip)

No......you have to concentrate on which one you ENJOY the best.  You enjoy
GP2 the best for the reasons you outlined.  Others enjoy their choices for
their own particular reasons.  Beauty, after all, is in the eye of the
beholder. :-)

bk

How can it be a best anything (game or sim) when it is so sloooowwwwww?
If I had a Cray at home maybe it could give N2 a run for it's money.

Regards,
        ---Wayne.

(snip)

Mark....what do you mean by this? If it takes longer than 1/25th of a
second to draw one frame then the frame-rate can't be 25fps, surely?

This subject of frame-rates I find curious. I was under the impression that
the "speed" at which those objects we see moving in our everyday lives
equated to (approx) 28 frames per second which, I think, is the speed at
which movies are shown.  (Modern movies, that is....not the old hand-driven
devices that gave us the 'Keystone Kops' flicker effect!).

If this is true why then are people so hyped up about achieving, for
example, 30fps?  If the brain can't appreciate the additional speed, why
bother with anything over 28fps?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

bk

[snip]

Movie frame rates are either 24 or 25 fps. Television is approximately 30
fps (it's actually 15 fps, but interleaved at 30 fps).

It's been awhile, but I believe that the eye works at somewhere between 25
and 30 fps, varies from person to person. However, your eye is observing
things that are constantly moving. In a video or movie, things are not
actually moving, they are stationary for 1/25th of a second. Thus your eye
may integrate to images that are identical before moving on. I'll make an
attempt to depict this with ASCII (bear with me here):

Frames  1    2    3    4    5
Eye       |   |   |   |   |   |

So the eye sees frames in the following order: 1,2,3,3,4,5 - which means
that there's an apparent discontinuity in motion during frame 3. The
classic example is the old spoked wheel, as the stagecoach is slowing down,
the wheel appears to move backwards for awhile, the suddenly starts going
forward again.

In the meantime, your brain is trying to use this information to coordinate
your muscle movement so you can steer the car. When the two frame 3's come
up, it appears that the car hasn't moved, so your brain reacts by
over-compensating. This is why the car feels loose when the frame rate
drops.

Dave Sparks
IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html
Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html
Hawaii Handle: davids

|> (snip)
|> >The problem is in GP2 that if you tell it to draw 25 fps, it will draw
|> them no matter how
|> >long it takes.
|>
|> Mark....what do you mean by this? If it takes longer than 1/25th of a
|> second to draw one frame then the frame-rate can't be 25fps, surely?
...
Exactly...that is his point.  It DOES take longer than 1/25th of a second
to draw, so what you see is your screen appears to be in slow motion.
If your computer can only handle 12.5 fps, and you have GP2 set to 25 fps,
GP2 will draw 25 screens in one second of simulated time.  However, it will
take your computer 2 seconds to draw this.  So, it will appear to you that
your car is moving at half speed.  Other sims will simply skip frames
here and there to maintain simulation time = real time.  This results in
choppy performance.

As for acceptable frame rates, I am amazed at the frame rates people require
in order for it to be acceptable.  Maybe I'm just not spoiled yet, but
I find 15-17 fps to be plenty adequate.  Even when I have everything
turned on in GP2, I can get 12fps, and I don't find this too bad actually.
It is definitely very drivable for me, and the advantage of the GP2
approach is that at least if you don't get a very high frame rate, it is
at least consistent.  Other sims will be unpredictably jumpy.

  ...Lance

--


IBM Microelectronics
Burlington, VT                          Phone: (802) 769-7104 (tie 446)

You don't understand do you?

The game/sim is not slow, Computers are slooowwwwwww!!!!!!!

GET IT?

**Peter**  #:?)  

Get real. If a piece of software is written for a particular
platform and runs like a turd then it is the software that
sucks. The software vendor has the responsibility of
selecting the hardware platform and requirements for
the market they are trying to capture. If they***
up as MicroProse did with GP2 then it is their fault not
the hardware. Obviously Papyrus was able to get reasonable
performance with the target platform so the hardware must
be ok, right?

        ---Wayne.

Well explained, guys!  Thanks very much for that....appreciated.
--

BruceK
VR #31, Pro. Division
VRE Site is http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/vegemiteracing/index.htm

You still don't get the point of the original question do you?

Which is the best racing simulator?

Not which has the best graphics, or which has the highest frame rate?
Which even I wouldn't argue about!!!!!

If the test is, which is the best simulator? then GP2 simulates motor
racing like no other, no-one touches it for realism, dynamics,
performance, and "feel".

Enough said!!!!!

**Peter**  #:?)  

Canci (Nostromo Racing Team)