rec.autos.simulators

Favourite Driving Sim?

Troy Allen Nol

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Troy Allen Nol » Tue, 28 Jan 1997 04:00:00

: Yeah, I think those IMAX filma are delivered at 70FPS or something
: high like that . And as far as I know, humans dont have minimum
: or maximum frame rate adjustments!

Jo Hels

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Jo Hels » Tue, 28 Jan 1997 04:00:00



>> the DOGS B*LL*CKS!!!!!

>> The people that made GP2, not only know how to make a computer simulator
>> of motor racing, they know ABOUT MOTOR RACING!!!!
>I disagree, Pete old boy.  It's hard to get a "feel" for realistic
>handling when your Pentium Pro 180 can only run a game with half the
>graphics on.  I also get the feeling I'm steering a dashboard (a badly
>drawn one at that) in GP2.  I don't sense that the game has a real 3D
>physics model the way NASCAR 2 or ICR2 do.  Since I can't see my front
>tires or hear other cars, I really miss out on critical feedback that
>would help the feel of GP2 out immensely.  This game was one of my most
>disappointing purchases.  It really looks too much like World Circuit,
>with some RAM hungry textures slapped on top.

You know what I think when I read your complaints? I think you must have a
pretty miserable life to feel the need to slam excellent software.

Nascar 2 and ICR2 have a "real" 3D physics model and GP2 doesn't? Have YOU seen
cars bump over kerbstones in the former two?

And try to configure your PPro180. It runs fine on my p166, thank you.

JH
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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mortal by making an enormous blunder....

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paul godfre

Favourite Driving Sim?

by paul godfre » Tue, 28 Jan 1997 04:00:00


> How can it be a best anything (game or sim) when it is so sloooowwwwww?
> If I had a Cray at home maybe it could give N2 a run for it's money.

Try GP2 in VGA rather than SVGA. It is still very attractive (much much
more than N2 or ICR2 in VGA) and runs very quickly.

Paul

Eric Adam

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Eric Adam » Tue, 28 Jan 1997 04:00:00

After SVGA why would anyone want to go back to VGA ?




> > How can it be a best anything (game or sim) when it is so sloooowwwwww?
> > If I had a Cray at home maybe it could give N2 a run for it's money.

> Try GP2 in VGA rather than SVGA. It is still very attractive (much much
> more than N2 or ICR2 in VGA) and runs very quickly.

> Paul

paul godfre

Favourite Driving Sim?

by paul godfre » Tue, 28 Jan 1997 04:00:00


> I disagree, Pete old boy.  It's hard to get a "feel" for realistic
> handling when your Pentium Pro 180 can only run a game with half the
> graphics on.  I also get the feeling I'm steering a dashboard (a badly
> drawn one at that) in GP2.  

What does handling have to do with graphics? Provided the handling is
accurate, I don't have time to admire scenery very much! That's not to
say that I don't appreciate good graphics; just that my first priority
is handling. I have a P-120 and run GP2 in VGA mode at 25+ FPS with most
graphic options on and I enjoy it immensely. Yes, it isn't as pretty as
SVGA, but it's the best looking VGA driving sim on the market (I tried
N2 in VGA and it was BUTT-UGLY; so I'm forced to run N2 with SVGA and
choppy frame rates or no graphics and a decent frame rate). GP2 at
25+FPS is immensely enjoyable with all options disabled (steering help,
oversteer help, traction control, gearchange, etc.); this is simply the
most realistic feeling simulation I've ever driven. There are so many
things that feel so real, from locking the wheels when braking for that
tight hairpin, to feathering the throttle in 1st, 2nd, and maybe even
third gear exiting from the slow corners, to getting a twitch if
oversteer and correcting it just in time, to bouncing over the curbs
trying to scrape those thousandths of your laptime. Incredible! If you
haven't made the proper graphic adjustments to get GP2 running at 25+FPS
and turned off all those driving aids, you haven't experienced this sim
at its highest, purest level. I love N2 and ICR2, but playing those
after GP2 makes me feel very limited in my driving scope.

Set the game up as I stated above (25+fps and NO DRIVING AIDS) and drive
the car to it's limits and then see if you still think the physics model
is different. Keep in mind that this is an F1 car (very nimble, very
stable up to the edge of adhesion, then it bites you!), not a heavy
NASCAR.

What does seeing the tires have to do with anything? I don't miss them
at all (never even thought about it until someone mentioned it). As far
as hearing other cars, it would be nice but it is debateable (and has
been debated ad-naseum) whether today's F1 driver can hear the other
car's or not. Car motion, wheel lock/spin are the type of things I rely
on for critical feedback, not tire graphics and opponent engine sounds.
In these areas, GP2 is on the next level, IMO.

Paul

Aw C'mon

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Aw C'mon » Wed, 29 Jan 1997 04:00:00




> >> the DOGS B*LL*CKS!!!!!

> >> The people that made GP2, not only know how to make a computer simulator
> >> of motor racing, they know ABOUT MOTOR RACING!!!!

> >I disagree, Pete old boy.  It's hard to get a "feel" for realistic
> >handling when your Pentium Pro 180 can only run a game with half the
> >graphics on.  I also get the feeling I'm steering a dashboard (a badly
> >drawn one at that) in GP2.  I don't sense that the game has a real 3D
> >physics model the way NASCAR 2 or ICR2 do.  Since I can't see my front
> >tires or hear other cars, I really miss out on critical feedback that
> >would help the feel of GP2 out immensely.  This game was one of my most
> >disappointing purchases.  It really looks too much like World Circuit,
> >with some RAM hungry textures slapped on top.

> You know what I think when I read your complaints? I think you must have a
> pretty miserable life to feel the need to slam excellent software.

> Nascar 2 and ICR2 have a "real" 3D physics model and GP2 doesn't? Have YOU seen
> cars bump over kerbstones in the former two?

> And try to configure your PPro180. It runs fine on my p166, thank you.

> JH

Actually, there's nothing wrong with my machine; I can run SVGA Nascar 2
with all (did I mention ALL?) graphics options on, and get a marvelous
frame rate.  I can also run NHL 97, Longbow and a host of other high
powered games on my machine without a hitch.  So, why does the frame
rate in GP2 suck?  I dunno, but I haven't heard many folks disagree that
the game is c-c-h-h-o-o-p-p-p-p-y-y.  In the early eighties, I loved
Revs + by Crammond; I was disappointed in World Circuit however, with
it's twitchy controls minus steering help (a bug Microprose admitted to)
and with steering help on making things way too easy and unrealistic.
Unfortunately, although the twitch is gone in GP2, it looks too much
like World Circuit with memory hungry graphics slapped on top.  The
driving engine just doesn't feel "seat of the pants" realistic to me.
It's too arcady.  Having driven real race cars, this is something I
really wish they could get right.
Aw C'mon

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Aw C'mon » Wed, 29 Jan 1997 04:00:00



> > I disagree, Pete old boy.  It's hard to get a "feel" for realistic
> > handling when your Pentium Pro 180 can only run a game with half the
> > graphics on.  I also get the feeling I'm steering a dashboard (a badly
> > drawn one at that) in GP2.

> What does handling have to do with graphics? Provided the handling is
> accurate, I don't have time to admire scenery very much! That's not to
> say that I don't appreciate good graphics; just that my first priority
> is handling. I have a P-120 and run GP2 in VGA mode at 25+ FPS with most
> graphic options on and I enjoy it immensely. Yes, it isn't as pretty as
> SVGA, but it's the best looking VGA driving sim on the market (I tried
> N2 in VGA and it was BUTT-UGLY; so I'm forced to run N2 with SVGA and
> choppy frame rates or no graphics and a decent frame rate). GP2 at
> 25+FPS is immensely enjoyable with all options disabled (steering help,
> oversteer help, traction control, gearchange, etc.); this is simply the
> most realistic feeling simulation I've ever driven. There are so many
> things that feel so real, from locking the wheels when braking for that
> tight hairpin, to feathering the throttle in 1st, 2nd, and maybe even
> third gear exiting from the slow corners, to getting a twitch if
> oversteer and correcting it just in time, to bouncing over the curbs
> trying to scrape those thousandths of your laptime. Incredible! If you
> haven't made the proper graphic adjustments to get GP2 running at 25+FPS
> and turned off all those driving aids, you haven't experienced this sim
> at its highest, purest level. I love N2 and ICR2, but playing those
> after GP2 makes me feel very limited in my driving scope.

> >I don't sense that the game has a real 3D
> > physics model the way NASCAR 2 or ICR2 do.  Since I can't see my front
> > tires or hear other cars, I really miss out on critical feedback that
> > would help the feel of GP2 out immensely.

> Set the game up as I stated above (25+fps and NO DRIVING AIDS) and drive
> the car to it's limits and then see if you still think the physics model
> is different. Keep in mind that this is an F1 car (very nimble, very
> stable up to the edge of adhesion, then it bites you!), not a heavy
> NASCAR.

> What does seeing the tires have to do with anything? I don't miss them
> at all (never even thought about it until someone mentioned it). As far
> as hearing other cars, it would be nice but it is debateable (and has
> been debated ad-naseum) whether today's F1 driver can hear the other
> car's or not. Car motion, wheel lock/spin are the type of things I rely
> on for critical feedback, not tire graphics and opponent engine sounds.
> In these areas, GP2 is on the next level, IMO.

> Paul

It's hard to even think about handling if you're only getting 10fps with
a lot of graphics options on.  Sure, I could lean out the graphics like
you did, but I didn't spend all that dough on a top machine to have to
put up with that.  I want to be able to get the best *** experience I
can- I think it's absurd that I have to turn over half the graphic
details off to play GP2 or any other game in an enjoyable manner.  BTW,
I do drive GP2 with all help doohickies off; it just doesn't feel like
the real thing to me.
Lance Pick

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Lance Pick » Wed, 29 Jan 1997 04:00:00

...
|> say that I don't appreciate good graphics; just that my first priority
|> is handling. I have a P-120 and run GP2 in VGA mode at 25+ FPS with most
|> graphic options on and I enjoy it immensely. Yes, it isn't as pretty as
|> SVGA, but it's the best looking VGA driving sim on the market (I tried
|> N2 in VGA and it was BUTT-UGLY; so I'm forced to run N2 with SVGA and
|> choppy frame rates or no graphics and a decent frame rate). GP2 at
...
Actually this is true.  You don't gain that much when running GP2 in SVGA
mode.  The most noticeable improvements are the***pit looks a lot nicer
(esp the steering wheel) (big deal!); the starting lights look a little
better, and when you are VERY close to the other cars they look a little
better (especially the wheels).  But most of the scenery and textures pretty
much look the same.  I agree--GP2 looks very good at VGA resolution.

...
|> >I don't sense that the game has a real 3D
|> > physics model the way NASCAR 2 or ICR2 do.  Since I can't see my front
|> > tires or hear other cars, I really miss out on critical feedback that
|> > would help the feel of GP2 out immensely.
|>
|> Set the game up as I stated above (25+fps and NO DRIVING AIDS) and drive
|> the car to it's limits and then see if you still think the physics model
|> is different. Keep in mind that this is an F1 car (very nimble, very
|> stable up to the edge of adhesion, then it bites you!), not a heavy
|> NASCAR.
|>
|> What does seeing the tires have to do with anything? I don't miss them
|> at all (never even thought about it until someone mentioned it). As far
|> as hearing other cars, it would be nice but it is debateable (and has
|> been debated ad-naseum) whether today's F1 driver can hear the other
|> car's or not. Car motion, wheel lock/spin are the type of things I rely
|> on for critical feedback, not tire graphics and opponent engine sounds.
|> In these areas, GP2 is on the next level, IMO.

This part I don't get (hearing other cars).  IMO, I can hear the other
cars better on GP2 than ICR2 and Nascar.  By this I mean that the stereo
placement of the other engine noises is superb and I've learned to tell
exactly where a car is in relation to me so I know when it's safe to cut
back in (or not) just by listening.  I haven't developed this ability
in ICR2 (don't know if I ever will) but instead have to rely on the funky
rear-view mirror which does help, but I haven't mastered it yet.

As for the tire graphics, I too don't miss them, but I am curious as to
what sort of feedback you CAN get from them (besides knowing when they are
moving or not :-).  Could someone educate me here?
I am having a heck of a time with ICR2 and could use any help I can get.

--


IBM Microelectronics                  ICQ UIN: 216830
Burlington, VT                          Phone: (802) 769-7104 (tie 446)

Lance Pick

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Lance Pick » Wed, 29 Jan 1997 04:00:00

...
|> driving engine just doesn't feel "seat of the pants" realistic to me.
|> It's too arcady.  Having driven real race cars, this is something I
|> really wish they could get right.

I do agree with this.  I will probably outgrow this game as I get better, but
for a beginner like myself, I appreciate the forgiveness of this game.
I have a heck of a time with ICR2 trying not to cause accidents (the
opponents seem to slow WAY down right in front of me (going into turns on
an oval that can be taken straight-out), forcing me to brake,
and then I usually get tangled up with the cars behind me somehow).  Maybe
this is "real" but it is definitely going to take me awhile to get the hang
of it.

--


IBM Microelectronics                  ICQ UIN: 216830
Burlington, VT                          Phone: (802) 769-7104 (tie 446)

Michael E. Carve

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Michael E. Carve » Wed, 29 Jan 1997 04:00:00


: This part I don't get (hearing other cars).  IMO, I can hear the other
: cars better on GP2 than ICR2 and Nascar.  By this I mean that the stereo
: placement of the other engine noises is superb and I've learned to tell
: exactly where a car is in relation to me so I know when it's safe to cut
: back in (or not) just by listening.  I haven't developed this ability
: in ICR2 (don't know if I ever will) but instead have to rely on the funky
: rear-view mirror which does help, but I haven't mastered it yet.

Wait a minute.  What sim drug are you taking when you run GP2? <g>  The
only time I have heard other cars is when I am sitting in the pits.  A
replay sometimes shows no cars going by, even though the sound was
there.  What's your secret?

Any Philip K.*** fans out there?  Sounds like something from one of
his books (Ubik?).  The one with the Patty Perk dolls, where the poor
miners take *** and live their lives by creating a simulated reality
with their dolls...

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

GSXR

Favourite Driving Sim?

by GSXR » Wed, 29 Jan 1997 04:00:00

Hey S***bag

GP2 is the best racing sim by far,you should take out your old 2600 from
your chest to play something like Pole Position it would be cheaper for
you and it won`t be complicated cause you don`t need to configure it and
by the way, please (I`m asking for everyone go see your mom! C`mom!)

Enjoy it and dream on it!!

GSXRR

GSXR

Favourite Driving Sim?

by GSXR » Wed, 29 Jan 1997 04:00:00


> You don't understand do you?

> The game/sim is not slow, Computers are slooowwwwwww!!!!!!!

> GET IT?

> **Peter**  #:?)

Thank you Peter and by the way I hope sandbag,mom,or a tv director is
listening to your intelligent comment!!

GSXRR

Julian Bo

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Julian Bo » Thu, 30 Jan 1997 04:00:00


Actually the average person's eyes `sample' at a rate around 50Hz.  This
can be demonstrated by playing with a variable strobe light and adjusting
the frequnecy around that value.  Things look really weired and the subject
can end up quite nausious.  25-30fps seems to provide the illusion of smooth
movement -- 50fps is hard to look at -- 70fps would not seem that much better
than 30, but is more comfortable to look at for long periods.

(based on vague memories of experiements in high scool)

-julian

ps: Same reason why good monitors have higher scan rates and 70 is alot better
than 50-60 which lead to eye strain, etc
--

research scientist
crc for distributed systems technology

Richard Hun

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Richard Hun » Thu, 30 Jan 1997 04:00:00



> ...
> |> driving engine just doesn't feel "seat of the pants" realistic to me.
> |> It's too arcady.  Having driven real race cars, this is something I
> |> really wish they could get right.

> I do agree with this.  I will probably outgrow this game as I get better, but
> for a beginner like myself, I appreciate the forgiveness of this game.
> I have a heck of a time with ICR2 trying not to cause accidents (the
> opponents seem to slow WAY down right in front of me (going into turns on
> an oval that can be taken straight-out), forcing me to brake,
> and then I usually get tangled up with the cars behind me somehow).  Maybe
> this is "real" but it is definitely going to take me awhile to get the hang
> of it.

> --


> IBM Microelectronics                  ICQ UIN: 216830
> Burlington, VT                          Phone: (802) 769-7104 (tie 446)

Lance,
I agree that GP2 is not the end to all simulators. Once in a real car
you never get any of the vibrations, screams or smells adds the terror
to driving really fast, but no one has died yet playing GP2!  My company
is working on a simulator not only for driving but for the tsunami of
simulation games coming out. snomobiles, jetskis, hovercraft, and even
faster F-18's and Y22's. To make it more realistic, transducers can be
put in frame and seat areas to coincide with engine noise levels, but
the motion of starting stopping and cornering can only be done with a
hydraulic driven gizmo that nobody could afford. Therefore accuracy of
feedback is the most important way to convey realism. A boosted signal
to the game port that reduces the circuit response time to below a
noticeable delay will do more for right now realism than anything else.
Seating and steering options range from a comfy chair to the real thing
with a 10 inch MOMO with shifter paddles and lights. We've even though
of gasoline aroma therapy wafting out of the air intakes!
Any way, I share your need for more REAL!
R. Hunt
Luca Varan

Favourite Driving Sim?

by Luca Varan » Thu, 30 Jan 1997 04:00:00


> I disagree, Pete old boy.  It's hard to get a "feel" for realistic
> handling when your Pentium Pro 180 can only run a game with half the
> graphics on.  I also get the feeling I'm steering a dashboard (a badly
> drawn one at that) in GP2.  I don't sense that the game has a real 3D

Hello,

I read a lot of your messages, and almost all of them seems to be
against GP2. You also repeat the same things each time, which
makes them a bit boring :)
Even in a N2 thread, for instance, you seem to say "N2 is wonderful,
not like GP2 which is ***..." even when GP2 was not nominated before.

I am really curios: why do you have such an harsh feeling against
GP2 :) ?
How can I be sure your advise is objective if you seem to be so
"singleminded" ?

Bye,
Luca


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