rec.autos.simulators

I have an excellent analog wheel built by Ferraro design in Melbourne,
Aust, however the idea of improving the experience through a good FFB
intrigues me.

My experience to date has been a trial with the Logitech Wingman force
and Powerslide and GPL with the Microsoft effort.

The wingman experience made me wonder if the power was switched of
whereas the MS wheel in GPL felt "loose".

The Saitek (spelling?) wheel is also available in Australia however
I'm afraid I still like a bit of style and the thing looks goofy.
I'm told we have to wait a couple of months before the ActLabs FFB
wheel is available in Australia. Perhaps with improvements to both the
paddles and with USB and the ability to assign different axis to brake
and throttle that I've read about.

Question time:

1. The pedals on my present wheels are really good, I mean, really
good. Has anyone tried to wire up different pedals to any FFB wheel.
Is it possible?.

2. Seriously, just how good are these FFB wheels in non FFB games ie
GPL. Any recommendations.

3. The experience with the Logitech wheel and Powerslide was very
offputting, surely these things are designed to give some feedback to
help driving not just to feel a bump or pull occasionally. Was
something amiss or is this as good as it gets, (with the Logitech
wheel at least).

4. If you wanted to really showcase FFB and its benefits what
game/wheel combination would you recommend.

Thankyou for any input.

Rgds    
-
Piper1

In a feeble attempt to thwart spammers I have altered my email address. Remove
the obvious bit before replying.

"Life is complex- It has real and imaginary parts.

I haven't done anything personally at this level, but almost any
configuration is possible, if you give the effort and put up with the
risk of tearing up your new equipment.  I like to take the time to
open up my computer toys and see what's inside, and I don't think it
would be a problem to at least look at the innards of the setup and
consider it.  Yes, YMMV.

My main use for my Logitech WFF is GPL.  That is priority number one
for my decision, and the Logitech is excellent at that.  It's plainly
the best low-end (< $200) wheel I have tried, force or non.

I've never handled a Thomas Super of any flavor, so I don't know how
it stacks up,  but I would guess that the TSW or any of the other
high-end wheels would blow the cheapos away.  <shrug>  All I know is
that the Logitech is the best wheel, force or non, that I've handled.
I don't know if it's the USB or what, but this thing in GPL feels
smooooth.  I also like the sensitivity adjustment on all the axes.  I
do *not* like the fact that I have to run the Logitech "Profiler"
program at all times in the system tray, but I can live with it.  I
also like the fact that the Wingman Team is always improving the
software, and listening to users.

I also haven't tried the MS wheel, or the Act Labs wheel, but I've
read good things about the Act Labs Force RS.  I've tried the Saitek,
returned it the next day.  I've tried the Interact V4, returned it the
next day.    I can't prove it, but I'm pretty confident that I could
have beaten the V4's force performance by having my wife stand by me
and wiggle the desk.  It's non-force performance and feel was lacking
also.

In my opinion, this is as good as it gets.  To be blunt, force
feedback technology, at present, is simply laughable.  Sorry to sound
negative, but I have yet to have a sim or a game be substantially
improved by FF technology.  I just want a good wheel, force or non;
maybe in 10 years when FF is actually a benefit to sims and games,
I'll worry about FF.  Maybe by then, there'll be a seat slider, too.
Even just a little left and right motion on the seat, done correctly,
would be a great help, no? :)

Colin McRae, and that's a big stretch.  Give me something to showcase
first, then I'll showcase it for you.  No matter how much you polish a
turd...

I'm not trying to bash FF here, just my honest opinion.  Some day, FF
tech will be awesome, I'm sure.  IMHO, it's just not right now.

<silly rant> Personally, I have a problem with pc  wheels in general.
I can't name one wheel that I have tried that did not have something
awfully  wrong with it's design.  Maybe I'm just being unreasonable,
maybe I ought to just build my own, and shut my trap.  I just wish
that, instead of focusing on a gimmick like FF, some manufacturer
would design a very good non-FF wheel,  for less than US$200.  This,
IMHO, has yet to be done. </silly rant>  Although I think this
Logitech is the closest yet.  

Has anyone tried the non-force Logitech Wingman?

Brett

I thought F1RS had the best FF effects, MGPRS2 seems to suck right
now, I even edited the FF files and still think F1RS is/was better.
You feel the rumble strips, harder to turn the wheel when going
faster, bumps on the track (Suzuka and Argentia spring to mind...),
jiggles when upshifting, etc. MGPRS2 is just plain weaker, they
patched it TWICE before it even got the rumble-strip effect
fixed...don't even get me started about the BS with the AI laptimes...

Jeff

The pedals for the WingMan FF just plain suck.  I could not get the hang
of them--there's just too little travel.  I tried to drive this way for
several hours, and became frustrated enough to want to return the unit.
I know you can replace the springs (and I still might try this), but
that won't fix the travel issue.  

Instead of returning the wheel, I connected the Thrustmaster pedals
(connected to a CH Flightstick Pro joystick, my former means of sim
control) to my machine's gameport and left the Wingman on the USB port.
GPL allows you to use two different game controllers in the game.  I
just press the Thrustmaster pedals instead of the lousy WingMan FF
pedals.  The WingMan FF pedals just take up space on the floor for
now--they're necessary for the WingMan wheel.

This setup made a significant difference in my lap times!  I also
discovered that in my CH Flightstick/Thrustmaster configuration, I
wasn't getting the full input range with my pedals--for example, in GPL
the brakes would never lock.  The AI cars would ALWAYS outbrake me (and
here I thought I was just a sh*tty driver!).  In my current setup
(WingMan + TM pedals), I can lock the brakes and/or outbrake those
bastards.

IMHO, the WingMan FF wheel gives very precise control and feels good in
your hands, even in non-FF games like GPL.  The paddle shifters are
about perfect, too.  The other 4 buttons on the wheel are handy as
well.  The WingMan software is useful.

<< SNIP >>>

You're welcome!
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* St. Paul, MN