rec.autos.simulators

You've got too much time on your hands ;)
'Totally inaccurate' is a bit strong.  They are reasonable
approximations, although why some tracks have elevation changes and some
don't where you'd expect them is a mystery.
I consider myself a sim enthusiast, rather than expert.  I prefer sims
to arcade, but don't go down to the level that some do - I've never
bothered to look at telemetry on any sim yet.

I've not timed this, but I don't know how long it would take a Renault
(the guys who had a hand in the game) F1 engine to go from idle to
17,500.
Bet it's pretty quick.

Not having driven a top line open wheel race car I can't vouch for
accuracy, but I like the feel of it more than any other attempt (GP2,
ICR2, MSCPR) so far.  Maybe GP2 had better wheelspin, but that's all.
I'm using a T2.  Have you tried it with a wheel?

A lot less harsh than GP2, though, so we're getting there.  Then again,
not having tried F1 for real, maybe you've just got to be one of the
best drivers in the world to manage it...

Well, it slows you down.  I reckon it's just a method of stopping
short-cutting.  It's a bit of a shame, as all of the crud on your tyres
is a big enough deterrent for me.  It's probably the biggest (driving)
flaw in the game.

Give me titles.  It's not too bad.  If it's not as good as GP2, N2 or
ICR2 it's a HELL of a lot better as a first attempt than MSCPR.
What about Psygnosis F1.  Did you try that?  The tracks were
(apparently) hyper accurate (so it must have been a sim <g>!), but the
AI was really just A.  It stank.

It's bad, but not the worst (Psyg F1, TOCA).

Horses for courses, I guess.

Okey dokey.
It's just a sim.  You can not expect a 100 percent accurate
representation of F1 for the price of 2 videos.  For starters it'd be
undrivable.
What I get out of these things is a knowledge of the tracks (roughly)
and an approximation of the technical ability required to get these
ultra-high-performance vehicles around a circuit.  That, and some fun
just _racing_.
It really enhances my enjoyment of the real thing.
If this is Ubi's first attempt, imagine what F1RS2 will be like.  I'm
drooling already...

All the best
Mark
Reading, UK

snip

You've got a different game... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

I've had this game or so called 'sim' for two weeks now and have come to
the following conclusion:

HOW THE HELL CAN UBISOFT CALL THIS A SIMULATION IS BEYOND ME  !!!!!!!!!

After observing all 16 tracks on video and taking down notes it's of the
game against the real thing i came up with these things :

These tracks are totally inaccurate :

Suzuka .......where's the undulations ?
San Marino ..........Is totally out of proportion....what a joke !
Monaco.............Is totally inaccurate and way too tight !
Canada...........Is not totally flat like a pancake !
Silverstone...........Is not flat either !
Hockenheim ...........The chicanes are totally inaccurate...!
Hungary.............Where's the undulations and blind turn ?
Monza.............The Lesmos turns are way too narrow and rumble strips a
                  are not correctly angled ....that's why you can't take
                   fast turns around there.......it's friggin incorrect !
Belgium..........the  turns and chicanes are out wack !

Also i've found that the tracks are not proportonal to the speed of F1
cars.............Maybe that is why Ubi  made the cars accelerate from
zero  to  17,500 revs in less than 1/4 second.........What nonsense !

Also the handling and balance of the Ubi model leaves me cold...!
Rumble strips that  throw you way out of line totally stupid !
As soon as you touch the grass is sends you out of control....are they
serious ?  
What about Villeneuve's victory in Hungary ...going onto grass to
overtake Hill ?
Artificial intelligence of worst arcade sim that i have seen !
Menu system that a 7 year old schoolboy could have done better !
Am i running the same sim as everybody else or have i got different
game...

Comments welcome ........
Cheers
Chatham,

Are you an F1 racing driver? How else can you judge this so criticaly. You
must have at least driven these circuits to know so much about them.

Me, I love this game. Best racing sim written so far. So which sim is good
enough for your high standards?

If an F1 driver or someone asociated with the sport made these criticisms,
I would take them seriously. IMO, you have too much time on your hands and
are talking out your arse.

Scott Andrews

They're a little inaccurate, but far from "totally", be fair.

In what way...?

I take it you've never heard an F1 engine being revved then? Believe
me, they really do hit peak revs in an unbelievably short time,
certainly well under a second. If you ever go to a Grand Prix, listen
to the engines being fired up in the pits before heading out to the
grid (you don't need to be anywhere close!) - the sound of Alesi's V12
Ferrari being revved in the pits was a glory to behold.

Of course. If you keep the power down you've got one side of your car
gripping strongly and the other side struggling to put 800hp down onto
grass - hardly surprising that you spin. The same with braking - if
you put one side of your car onto the grass under braking you are
GONE.

What about Verstappen touching the grass at Interlagos? As soon as his
wheels touched the grass he spun (the accident that got Irvine a
wrist-slapping).

Worse than CPR? Worse than Screamer Rally? If you're going to have
people take you seriously then you should make reasoned and serious
comments.

Okay, that's probably about right...!

Cheers!
John

Chatham,

I think this is a little strong.  There are obviously some things that are
noticeable.  I noticed that Suzuka seemed flatter than expected, but not
having ever driven there, it's difficult to say.  TV pictures tend to
foreshorten images, and can give a distorted view.

Having spent many years watching TV coverage of races at Oulton Park in
the UK, and then going there in person on a number of occasions, I was
amazed at how unprepared I was when I actually drove the circuit.   I
could have drawn the outline of the track with my eyes shut, but even
walking around it doesn't give the same impression as actually driving ON
it.

cars.............Maybe that is why Ubi  made the cars accelerate from
zero  to  17,500 revs in less than 1/4 second.........What nonsense !<<

Certainly in 1st gear, it's terribly easy to get the car to spin it's
wheels, but I suspect that this is likely to be quite accurate.  I've
never driven an F1 car, but I've driven road cars that were powerful
enough to go straight into wheel-spin if you floor it in first gear.

I'm suprised by this.  I thought GP2 was the best I had encountered.  It
has precision which I feel is lacking in the Papyrus sims, but the
problems of the perpetual spin (a spin that can be stopped, but then
re-starts when you take your foot off brake), and also the revs dying,
rather than allowing one to perform do-nuts, still made it apparent that
it wasn't completely 'there'.

I feel the F1RS physics are very good.  The car is responsive, and
controllable even under power-slides which I find rare in a sim.  In many
sims the power-slide is either too easy to control, or results in wild
spins.

Not sure exactly which strips you are referring to, but the point is that
these strips (in real life) have quite large bumps on them.  They do throw
the car out of line, and it's the skill required to pre-empt the sudden
changes of direction that distinguishes between the good and the mediocre.

serious ?   <<

Well I am when I say that this isn't my experience.  I would say that the
speed retardation effect of the grass, (and the track if you are sideways)
is a little exagerated.  But the car does get 'out of control' if I touch
the grass.  Get on it completely, and things are a little different.  When
I went t a driving school they told me this, "there's the black stuff, and
there's the green stuff, you go faster on the green stuff, but you are
just a passenger..."

I have to say that I think the AI is very good.  The CCs are a little slow
out of tight bends, but other than that I'd be interested in what specific
criticisms you have.

Yes, this is a little tiresome, but it is a criticism that can be levied
at many/most driving sims.

Ditto.

Cheers,

Steve.

I don't have enough knowledge to judge the tracks, but they all seem
to "flat" to me.  So I'll assume your report is accurate.

Wheel spin is a problem in  F1RS.  Seems way over done to me.  The
feeling of "speed" seems fine to me  though.

I don't have this problem.

Don't have this problem either.

(running with all realstic options on)

No way, check out CART.  I have no problem with the AI, and thought it
was pretty well done.    

Menu system is by far the worst I've even seen.  Once you get used to
it  though, it  isn't quite as bad.   Having to reload the setup all
the time needs fixed though.  Replays need alot of  work as well.

Andy

Andy
Please use address below for all email replies

Dave.

PS  ICR2 4ever :P

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l8r,

Dave.

P.S.  ICR2 4ever :P

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Laurin & Klement Racing          http://pr.erau.edu/~kadlcak/racing/lkr.html

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Hi Steve,
        I agree totally here - it's all down to car setup, which we
know is down to personal preference.

If you want to eat rumble strip, you have to set up for it  :-)

JB.

I haven't noticed (or am not bothered by) any of the problems the original
poster mentioned...umm, except the menu system.  This is pretty lame,
especially in comparison to CPR's excellent UI.  On the other hand, CPR's AI
makes F1RS' look like a reincarnated (and digitized) Ayrton Senna!

I continue to really enjoy F1RS, but here are my nits:

Da Graphics: I go back and forth on these...  At times, I think they're
excellent.  Monaco looks great and the wet weather driving (with the mist,
the tire spray, and even the glowing tail lights) is simply stunning!  Yet,
at times I feel the graphics are a bit cartoonish - too colorful or
something.  I can't quite put my finger on it.  The animation of the pit crew
is also a bit inferior to that of CPR, though admittedly, this is just icing
on the cake of two great sims.

Da Speed: What IS relevant to a racing sim is the feeling of speed.  I have a
system that can run either game just fine with graphics maxed.  Relative to
other sims, F1 just doesn't make me feel like I'm flying!  I was taking a
turn at Monza the other day...  I usually focus more on the tach and my line,
but I glanced at the speedometer: 100+ MPH!  It felt like I was going 20-30!
CPR, on the other hand, can make me sweat on an empty track!  I think it may
be the chassis vibration: when you're smoking in CPR, the dash is often
***ly vibrating just like you see in videos (I'd love it if they could
model this in force feedback - I don't believe they do, but this effect is
still the only thing that has made me seriously consider one of the
forthcoming FF wheels).  F1 gives me the feeling my car is moving slowly on
smooth rails.

Regardless, I think both sims are great additions to the field and show great
progress in accurately simulating driving (once they patch CPR).  To the
future and the perfect racing sim...

Sean

I would be very surprised to hear that Jacques Villeneuve did *not* own
F1RS.
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Jon Petersson                           Support Sarah-K and the rasf1 car!

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Yet,
Man you took my exact words I love both sims but since turning off the sky
in F1 its better now but......... cartoonish was my exact description.And I
also love the pit crew in CPR

F1 gives me the feeling my car is moving slowly on
Once again my exact same feelings speed wise!

This is really the main point though as race sim drivers we are very
fortunate to have both these sims! Aloha, Mike

Sorry to get off of F1rs, but I am glad you mentioned the***pit shaking in
cpr.  I noticed it a while back and just thought I had been playing the game too
long.  That is a cool feature.

Cheers
Chatham,  Melbourne>