rec.autos.simulators

Papy upgraded GPL's tire model with the original 1.1 patch, though they originally denied having made any physics changes.  The
consensus around here was that the changes made GPL easier and there was a briefly a bit of a huff about GPL being "dumbed down".
But that soon died away in the wake of the other improvements (& that *** 1.1 bug).  Try GPL version 1.0 again for a lark and
you'll quickly feel the change.  Dave Kaemmer was later quoted (in an N4-related interview) as saying something along the line that
he couldn't bring himself to drive GPL anymore due to the deficiencies in the tire model.  And now the cycle repeats itself with
N2002.

Anyone remember the way-back quote from the Wests during early WSC development that the more accuracy they packed into the physics
modeling, the EASIER it became to drive?  Think it was in a show interview, including Hyperstimulators' John Crooke.  Let's hope
that's so...

Anyway, I think we all more or less know that '67 GP cars didn't handle quite like the GPL versions.  Doesn't stop it from being a
milestone achievement, though, and a wonderful piece of work even today.  I don't race it as much lately, but it never fails to
deliver a big grin when I do fire it up.

Thanks again, Papy! (and everyone who's made add-ons)

SB

You can fix this problem with DXTweak.exe by manually
adjusting the total range of the pots to match the
range that is actually used.  I made it work in F1-2000.

-Dirt-

However, no other sim I've driven (including F1 2001) gives me the feeling
of driving a race car like GPL does. As many have said, that's partly
because modern racing cars (excluding maybe Nascar) have so much less
suspension travel (higher frequency physics), so the car feel doesn't
translate as well to the screen. That's irrelevant though - it's all about
the final result. GPL feels the most "right" of any sim I've driven (IMO).

And of course it blows most other sims away with its online play (N4 and
Heat being the closest competitors). Get a good group of guys together (i.e.
a league) and race an hour and a half with them, then tell me that ain't
real racing. Once you get good enough at GPL *the game* to overcome the
limitations of the model, so you can concentrate on the *racing* you'll
understand where the fanatical loyalty comes from. You may not join us but
you'll at least understand us...

originally denied having made any physics changes.  The
briefly a bit of a huff about GPL being "dumbed down".
*** 1.1 bug).  Try GPL version 1.0 again for a lark and
N4-related interview) as saying something along the line that
the tire model.  And now the cycle repeats itself with
development that the more accuracy they packed into the physics
interview, including Hyperstimulators' John Crooke.  Let's hope
quite like the GPL versions.  Doesn't stop it from being a
I don't race it as much lately, but it never fails to

David G Fisher

Speaking of F1 2001 mods, the FIA GT mod is great, I spent
about an hour just in practice #1 with the AI yesterday
while driving the Viper at Silverstone.

Just imagine, what if you can have FIA GT mod with N4 quality
multiplayer, N4/GPL quality replay & suspension/engine
adjustments, with GPL addon quality tracks.  That would really
be sweet.  

URL, anybody? Please. Really, I'm not trying to start a fight. I just want
to understand why this restriction exists.

p.s. F1 2001 does "everything" better? Does it simulate 1967 cars better
than GPL? (Yep, THERE I'm trying to start a fight). Comparing GPL and F1
2001 is like comparing IL2 and MS Flight Simulator.

Nice question, Mike. It was time somebody asked! <g>
Never mind, we'll never know the correct answer to that one...

I have both games. Tried F12001 for half an hour - and found myself bored.
Felt like I was playing a game, not racing a car. So back to GPL at once,
and haven't touched F12001 since.

Yes I know, gentlemen, 30 mins is not enough to discover the no doubt
amazing depths of the new game, but let's just say I couldn't stand
wrestling those horrible menus again. And ofcourse there's no online racing,
whereas the next race in my GPL league is coming up so... why bother?

Bye,
Leo

I personally don't race the AI anymore, so if I do non-multiplayer racing
it's hotlapping offline.  GPL gives a much better fun out of hotlapping.
That's obvious, those monsters are incredibly fun to drive and are difficult
to master.  The challenge is very rewarding also, driving a GPL car to it's
limit is imho the most fun you can do in simracing today.  No other sim can
achieve this at the moment.  GPL also gives a much better fun out of
multiplayer racing (considering no other then Papyrus are able to do it
correctly).  The only thing left is during AI race, but since I don't do
them, I can't judge the quality of both.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Yes, I think about everybody has accepted that fact now.  I've accepted that
around a year ago and just said to myself "Oh well!".  I can drive GPL
without really caring about it, it has it's own different game engine then
reality, even if it's as close as GPL will ever get to that same reality.
Therefore, I'm able to just race it in it's own virtual environment with
it's proper laws and physics, and enjoy it :)

It's just normal that with time, other new titles become more sophisticated.
N4 and NR2002 are more sophisticated then GPL, but like somebody will say
"It's still no GPL".  There's a mystique and history behind it, there is the
mixture of cars/sound/sight that everybody here enjoys.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Even the laptimes are amazing, the best lap I've seen there is a low 1:27.

So... perhaps that sub-8minute lap at the Nurburgring IS possible ;-D

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I've had those problems.  Changing the backfire sound to a quieter one seems
to have solved the Turn 1 lockup problem for me (I think it actually was
hitting the brakes that caused it).  I have the graphical errors, including
a half-second green-out through the windshield just before the S/F line at
Spa.  With all that, it's still fun racing though.

    -Phasor

The reason this happens is because F1 200x views the center value of
your pedal in DX as the zero value for that input.  Since DX sets the
center value as halfway between the pedal being fully depressed and
fully released, F1 2001 doesn't notice that you're depressing the
pedal until you've hit 50% travel.

I have no idea why this hasn't been patched yet, and I can't think of
a single sim that supports split-axis pedals and doesn't use the
calibration information properly (or non-sims for that matter).  You
can fix this with dxtweak by setting the center value for each pedal
axis one integer below (or above, depending on the axis) the value
that is shown for a fully released pedal.  Obviously, this can have
weird affects in other racing games that use DX for controller input.

I played the game for a bit in single-axis mode, but imho the grip
model is so odd it's not really worth it.  Brakes that don't lock up
above 50mph (and seemingly don't lock up independently) and tires that
magically grip when you're sliding sideways and nudge the brakes just
don't do it for me.  Not to mention the sheer and utter joy of drag
racing between chicanes for a few hours.

That said, if ISI at least acknowledges the split-axis problems I'll
give them another chance when Cart World Series 200x comes out.

Jason (CART SIM!)