rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

mcwho

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by mcwho » Fri, 16 May 2003 07:46:51

Hey all,
     I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks in
setting up the new Saitek wheel.  I am getting a pretty good feel now,
finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at topcenter.
Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely
disabled.  Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO and
worked from there.
     So here is the deal.  I am working in traffic pretty well, much more
stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well.  I am driving
with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the
bottom.  The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking to
help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the place.
The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted in some
minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my car
suddenly slides up a groove.
    Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should I
still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it??

--
McWhom
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Paulli

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by Tim Paulli » Fri, 16 May 2003 10:28:34


Try setting the linearity to around 80%.  That smoothed things out for me.

Tim

Ed Solhei

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by Ed Solhei » Fri, 16 May 2003 18:51:31

"mcwhom" said:

Sean,

Just to be on the safe side......  You are aware of that NR2003 do support
force feedback - yes?

As for settings:

Is this the same Saitek wheel that got the Micro$oft internals?

If so, try this:

1 - Set pedals to split axis. (to be found in Windows Joystick panel /
Saitek control panel)
2 - Get more linear steering - about 80-90% should do... (I run 98% myself)
3 - Set FFB setting to medium in Windows Joystick panel / Saitek control
panel
4 - Set spring return to "low" in Windows Joystick panel / Saitek control
panel
5 - Set FFB in NR2003 to around 40-50%
6 - Steering and throttle sensitivety in NR2003 advanced joystick options
should also be set to "high"/ "max" (i.e whatever gives the best "feel")

Good luck!
--
ed_

Larr

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by Larr » Tue, 20 May 2003 03:01:07

The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a SS.

That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it.

If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's
Daytona Setup.

Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :)

Larry


mcwho

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by mcwho » Thu, 22 May 2003 07:45:23

I found a lot of tim's setups, but none for daytona??  I was as far back as
July 2002 looking before I realized it.

--
McWhom
-----------------------------------------------------------------


: The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a
SS.
:
: That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it.
:
: If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's
: Daytona Setup.
:
: Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :)
:
: Larry
:

: > Hey all,
: >      I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks in
: > setting up the new Saitek wheel.  I am getting a pretty good feel now,
: > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at
topcenter.
: > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely
: > disabled.  Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO
and
: > worked from there.
: >      So here is the deal.  I am working in traffic pretty well, much
more
: > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well.  I am
: driving
: > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the
: > bottom.  The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking
to
: > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the
: place.
: > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted in
: some
: > minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my
car
: > suddenly slides up a groove.
: >     Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should I
: > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it??
: >
: >
: > --
: > McWhom
: > -----------------------------------------------------------------
: >
: >
: >
:
:

Tim Paulli

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by Tim Paulli » Thu, 22 May 2003 14:23:51


> I found a lot of tim's setups, but none for daytona??  I was as far back
as
> July 2002 looking before I realized it.

> --
> McWhom
> -----------------------------------------------------------------



> : The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a
> SS.
> :
> : That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it.
> :
> : If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's
> : Daytona Setup.
> :
> : Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :)
> :
> : Larry
> :


> : > Hey all,
> : >      I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks
in
> : > setting up the new Saitek wheel.  I am getting a pretty good feel now,
> : > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at
> topcenter.
> : > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely
> : > disabled.  Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO
> and
> : > worked from there.
> : >      So here is the deal.  I am working in traffic pretty well, much
> more
> : > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well.  I am
> : driving
> : > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the
> : > bottom.  The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking
> to
> : > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the
> : place.
> : > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted
in
> : some
> : > minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my
> car
> : > suddenly slides up a groove.
> : >     Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should
I
> : > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it??
> : >
> : >
> : > --
> : > McWhom
> : > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> : >

www.oteracing.com

Tim

Tim

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by Tim » Fri, 23 May 2003 03:25:38

I've stopped racing until some patch comes out.  If it never does, well ... :(
I thought I had posted that little bit of news but maybe I didn't.

Anyway, I upload the Daytona setup here http://forum.racesimcentral.com/t.php?s=&threadid=80979 if anyone still wants it.

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com


> I found a lot of tim's setups, but none for daytona??  I was as far back as
> July 2002 looking before I realized it.

> --
> McWhom
> -----------------------------------------------------------------



> : The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a
> SS.
> :
> : That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it.
> :
> : If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's
> : Daytona Setup.
> :
> : Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :)
> :
> : Larry
> :


> : > Hey all,
> : >      I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks in
> : > setting up the new Saitek wheel.  I am getting a pretty good feel now,
> : > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at
> topcenter.
> : > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely
> : > disabled.  Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO
> and
> : > worked from there.
> : >      So here is the deal.  I am working in traffic pretty well, much
> more
> : > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well.  I am
> : driving
> : > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the
> : > bottom.  The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking
> to
> : > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the
> : place.
> : > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted in
> : some
> : > minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my
> car
> : > suddenly slides up a groove.
> : >     Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should I
> : > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it??
> : >
> : >
> : > --
> : > McWhom
> : > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> : >
> : >
> : >
> :
> :

mcwho

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by mcwho » Fri, 23 May 2003 04:45:10


: I've stopped racing until some patch comes out.  If it never does, well
... :(
: I thought I had posted that little bit of news but maybe I didn't.
:
: Anyway, I upload the Daytona setup here
http://forum.racesimcentral.com/t.php?s=&threadid=80979 if anyone still
wants it.
:
: --
: Tim White
: www.intracmotorsports.com
:
:
Thanks Tim

--
McWhom
-----------------------------------------------------------------

John Simmon

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by John Simmon » Fri, 23 May 2003 08:49:03



What are you looking for in terms of fixes?

What if those items haven't been fixed?

Tim

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by Tim » Fri, 23 May 2003 15:27:46

    First, and I sure hope they keep this in perspective, is anything they do change does not***up or otherwise open a hole for
any other potential mind numbing defects in the software.  I suspect that if we are fortunate enough to see a patch there will most
likely not be another one.

    In all previous versions, driving aids (clutch not included) did not make one faster.  If they either .. Change that, Allow the
server to know who has what on so that leagues may individually decide what to do with the information (but do show it in an export
of the race results), or Allow an option for the server to control what aids can be used ... I would be satisfied.

    In the past I have used some of the aids and they probably helped me by treating them as shortcuts to not having to practice
much.  But I never really thought they made me as fast as the best online.  I don't call using them cheating, far from it.  I just
feel it should be pretty obvious to Papyrus that making fast drivers faster was not their intention.  If you look at the help
options, all of them say what they always said; something like "Using them well help you but a more experienced driver will find
more speed without them".  I am guessing that what happened is when they changed things like tire grip settings in an effort to add
more realism to tire wear, they probably did not see the full effects with all the options they have in the sim.  Fair enough, but
on that assumption, I would hope it would be sensible for them to 'clean it up'.

    I would also like for them to clean up the Fast setups, making them more even from track to track.  While several papy guys may
have stated they think the setups are fine, they can't argue the fact that this is really the first version they have put out where
the Fast setups are so undriveable for so many.  Every fixed setup league depends on that consistency and, try as some might, it's
nearly impossible for the community to adopt another standard set other than the Fast setup.  Considering Papyrus has gone out of
its way to dummy down the difficulty factor for maximum playability, I would think they'd be very concerned about the state of the
default Fast setups in the eyes of the general community, rather than those of their own.

    The damage model can always be improved, but right now it's the best it has ever been.  It still suffers for a lot of people,
but it is equal to everyone who races.  So you can almost say it's fair.

    I know it's cool to see cars flipping.  But ever since they added that feature it has not been realistic at all.  Cars
skyrocketing at a short track is more laughable than not.  Get rid of it.  I don't even consider this a 'wish list' thing since it
has no realism whatsoever and most likely never worked the way they had intended.

    They really need to clean up, once and for all, the issues of random breakdowns.  Make it clear what it is and when it happens
versus something the driver initiated on his own.  The decent and chaos the confusion causes is simply not worth the feature imo.
I'd be happy if it was removed from the software altogether but for God's sake please settle the issue, finally.

    Right now, I feel the cheat detection may be about as good as it has ever been.  I can be quite wrong about that, but now we
have two issues to deal with; Cheating AND driving aids.  It's like we finally get used to racing with guys who may cheat, and some
honorable attempt has been made to deal with it, and now we have to live with driving aids?  unuh.

    The only 'wish list' thing I would want is to be able to see the brake and gas usage while racing, so I could tell if I was
actually brake riding with my foot resting on the brake.  To see everyone's gas and braking in the replays would be great as well.

    The only thing that is a must for me is to retro the true usage of driving aids.  They don't do that and I probably won't be
back.

    How I know this for certain is I have always been the guy who was off the gas in a turn before anyone else.  Ever since I
started, including racing real simulators like SMS, people were always 'surprised' to see how smooth I was with a wheel and pedal.
I never thought this was some special skill, and it was never on purpose or planned on my part.  It just so happened that's how I
drove a car.

    When N2003 came out, and everyone was new at it, it turned out to fit my almost 8 year old driving habits to a tee.  The very
first races I ran no one could keep up with me on tire wear.  Not in any of the leagues I was in.  Except for a short stint in N4, I
haven't worked on open setups for almost 3 years and after all that time, here I found myself once again e***d about open setups.

    But within just a few short weeks those same guys were beating me.  I didn't change a thing.  But others, not everyone mind you,
suddenly found the driving aids.  So for me, it was like waking up to the same old song.  Here, I finally had a sim that rewarded
really true tire management, and that was just about the closest I ever thought I would come to real life racing.  I wanted so badly
to test the one natural skill I felt I had brought to sim racing, while learning any others, with the best out there and now it is
all but bogus for any real accomplishment or satisfaction of effort or time spent.

    So cleaning up driving aids is a must for me personally.

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com


> What are you looking for in terms of fixes?

> What if those items haven't been fixed?

John Simmon

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by John Simmon » Fri, 23 May 2003 19:03:41

Well, the driving aids are vital for fixed setup leagues, because as
we all know, no two people drive a given setup the same way.  I think
it's too late to make any suggestions, but I *can* have opinions:

1) Disable driving aids (except auto-clutch) for races that allow
open setups.  I don't see the driving aids as being a problem when
used in conjunction with fixed setups.

2) Disable driving aids (except auto-clutch) for races that are set
to "***" mode.

3) I agree with the flipping cars thing, it happens way too easily.

4) Random breakdowns happens way too often. I am sure they can
address this by changing a couple of parameters.

5) I don't think you should stop racing in rascar over this stuff. :)



>     First, and I sure hope they keep this in perspective, is anything they do change does not***up or otherwise open a hole for
> any other potential mind numbing defects in the software.  I suspect that if we are fortunate enough to see a patch there will most
> likely not be another one.

>     In all previous versions, driving aids (clutch not included) did not make one faster.  If they either .. Change that, Allow the
> server to know who has what on so that leagues may individually decide what to do with the information (but do show it in an export
> of the race results), or Allow an option for the server to control what aids can be used ... I would be satisfied.

>     In the past I have used some of the aids and they probably helped me by treating them as shortcuts to not having to practice
> much.  But I never really thought they made me as fast as the best online.  I don't call using them cheating, far from it.  I just
> feel it should be pretty obvious to Papyrus that making fast drivers faster was not their intention.  If you look at the help
> options, all of them say what they always said; something like "Using them well help you but a more experienced driver will find
> more speed without them".  I am guessing that what happened is when they changed things like tire grip settings in an effort to add
> more realism to tire wear, they probably did not see the full effects with all the options they have in the sim.  Fair enough, but
> on that assumption, I would hope it would be sensible for them to 'clean it up'.

>     I would also like for them to clean up the Fast setups, making them more even from track to track.  While several papy guys may
> have stated they think the setups are fine, they can't argue the fact that this is really the first version they have put out where
> the Fast setups are so undriveable for so many.  Every fixed setup league depends on that consistency and, try as some might, it's
> nearly impossible for the community to adopt another standard set other than the Fast setup.  Considering Papyrus has gone out of
> its way to dummy down the difficulty factor for maximum playability, I would think they'd be very concerned about the state of the
> default Fast setups in the eyes of the general community, rather than those of their own.

>     The damage model can always be improved, but right now it's the best it has ever been.  It still suffers for a lot of people,
> but it is equal to everyone who races.  So you can almost say it's fair.

>     I know it's cool to see cars flipping.  But ever since they added that feature it has not been realistic at all.  Cars
> skyrocketing at a short track is more laughable than not.  Get rid of it.  I don't even consider this a 'wish list' thing since it
> has no realism whatsoever and most likely never worked the way they had intended.

>     They really need to clean up, once and for all, the issues of random breakdowns.  Make it clear what it is and when it happens
> versus something the driver initiated on his own.  The decent and chaos the confusion causes is simply not worth the feature imo.
> I'd be happy if it was removed from the software altogether but for God's sake please settle the issue, finally.

>     Right now, I feel the cheat detection may be about as good as it has ever been.  I can be quite wrong about that, but now we
> have two issues to deal with; Cheating AND driving aids.  It's like we finally get used to racing with guys who may cheat, and some
> honorable attempt has been made to deal with it, and now we have to live with driving aids?  unuh.

>     The only 'wish list' thing I would want is to be able to see the brake and gas usage while racing, so I could tell if I was
> actually brake riding with my foot resting on the brake.  To see everyone's gas and braking in the replays would be great as well.

>     The only thing that is a must for me is to retro the true usage of driving aids.  They don't do that and I probably won't be
> back.

>     How I know this for certain is I have always been the guy who was off the gas in a turn before anyone else.  Ever since I
> started, including racing real simulators like SMS, people were always 'surprised' to see how smooth I was with a wheel and pedal.
> I never thought this was some special skill, and it was never on purpose or planned on my part.  It just so happened that's how I
> drove a car.

>     When N2003 came out, and everyone was new at it, it turned out to fit my almost 8 year old driving habits to a tee.  The very
> first races I ran no one could keep up with me on tire wear.  Not in any of the leagues I was in.  Except for a short stint in N4, I
> haven't worked on open setups for almost 3 years and after all that time, here I found myself once again e***d about open setups.

>     But within just a few short weeks those same guys were beating me.  I didn't change a thing.  But others, not everyone mind you,
> suddenly found the driving aids.  So for me, it was like waking up to the same old song.  Here, I finally had a sim that rewarded
> really true tire management, and that was just about the closest I ever thought I would come to real life racing.  I wanted so badly
> to test the one natural skill I felt I had brought to sim racing, while learning any others, with the best out there and now it is
> all but bogus for any real accomplishment or satisfaction of effort or time spent.

>     So cleaning up driving aids is a must for me personally.

> --
> Tim White
> www.intracmotorsports.com


> > What are you looking for in terms of fixes?

> > What if those items haven't been fixed?

mcwho

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by mcwho » Fri, 23 May 2003 19:23:07


<snip>
:


<snip>

This all makes me curious.  I do not use driving aids, though I am probably
new enough to this that they would help me, I do not do this for the realism
aspect and just assumed that most/all league drivers would not.  When I had
my sidewinder ff stick hooked up they were necessary but not with a wheel.
Am I wrong?  Should I be using the driving aids to make a better driving
experience for my opponents?  Assuming that the aids would help me stay in
line, yada, yada.......

--
McWhom
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jan Verschuere

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by Jan Verschuere » Fri, 23 May 2003 19:45:52

Exactly, this is why I don't view this driving aids thing as an issue. When
I'm driving the thought of whether someone else uses them or not doesn't
even enter my mind.

I'd advise against it as you might pick up some bad driving habits using
them, which could prove a true PITA to unlearn once you decide to turn
driving aids off.

Jan.
=---

Ed Solhei

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by Ed Solhei » Fri, 23 May 2003 23:24:00

"John Simmons" said:
...

I would like the host-server be either allow or ban usage of any given
driving aid -  regardsless of what type of setup is used.

I would also like for us to "ban" all aids - bar clutch - during RASCAR
races. I might be talked into allowing racing line - but thats were I'm
drawing the line.

Ditto.

--
ed_

Brian Oste

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

by Brian Oste » Sat, 24 May 2003 04:46:13

On Thu, 22 May 2003 16:24:00 +0200, "Ed Solheim"


>I would also like for us to "ban" all aids - bar clutch - during RASCAR
>races. I might be talked into allowing racing line - but thats were I'm
>drawing the line.

I agree.  If driving aids make you faster than we should not use them
and hopefully papy will come up with a fix to optionally ban them.  I
have never used driving aids (I had them on for about 4 min in N4 and
promptly turned them off) and up until N2003 it was my understanding
that they significantly slowed you down.  If that was the case I would
not have problem with them but if they make guys that are all ready
fast even faster.... pretty close to cheating.  I have even heard that
there are setups out there specifically designed for using driving
aids that make you very unrealistically fast.... need to get it fixed.

Actually I drive in hard core mode at all times and I would not have a
problem if RASCAR forced this, but I also understand that RASCAR
incorporates a lot of different skill levels...

Brian Oster


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