rec.autos.simulators

by **John Simmon** » Sat, 24 May 2003 06:22:29

> <snip>
> :

> <snip>

> This all makes me curious. I do not use driving aids, though I am probably
> new enough to this that they would help me, I do not do this for the realism
> aspect and just assumed that most/all league drivers would not. When I had
> my sidewinder ff stick hooked up they were necessary but not with a wheel.
> Am I wrong? Should I be using the driving aids to make a better driving
> experience for my opponents? Assuming that the aids would help me stay in
> line, yada, yada.......

Sometimes, the <fast> setup is simply undrivable for some people, so
it's perfectly fine to fine tune the setup by any means possible
(within the constraints of the game). I used throttle latency at
Bristol, and stability control at North Carolina, but other than
that, I don't use driving aids.

by **John Simmon** » Sat, 24 May 2003 06:36:00

> On Thu, 22 May 2003 16:24:00 +0200, "Ed Solheim"

> >I would also like for us to "ban" all aids - bar clutch - during RASCAR
> >races. I might be talked into allowing racing line - but thats were I'm
> >drawing the line.

> I agree. If driving aids make you faster than we should not use them
> and hopefully papy will come up with a fix to optionally ban them. I
> have never used driving aids (I had them on for about 4 min in N4 and
> promptly turned them off) and up until N2003 it was my understanding
> that they significantly slowed you down. If that was the case I would
> not have problem with them but if they make guys that are all ready
> fast even faster.... pretty close to cheating. I have even heard that
> there are setups out there specifically designed for using driving
> aids that make you very unrealistically fast.... need to get it fixed.

> Actually I drive in hard core mode at all times and I would not have a
> problem if RASCAR forced this, but I also understand that RASCAR
> incorporates a lot of different skill levels...

Banning the auto-clutch aid is not acceptable, especially for road
courses.

I think the whole issue with the use of aids is that people make
unrealistic setups and then turn on driving aids which makes them
faster. For RASCAR (and other fixed setup leagues), that is NOT an
issue.

The driving aids won't keep you from doing stupid shit, but they can
help someone who is at odds with a given fixed setup come to grips
with that setup. We all know that everyone drives differently from
everyone else, and a setp that seems loose to some will feel just
right to others, or even tight to some people.

"Banning" the use of driving aids is just stupid for that very
reason. For fixed setup and *** races, driving aids (except
clutch) should be turned off. If not in *** mode, they should
be individually toggleable by the server admin.

Even if they were currently toggleable, I would not race in RASCAR if
they were forced off, simply because we race with fixed setups.

IMHO, if someone wants to use driving aids, that's their business,
but I make an honest effort to become accustomed enough with the fast
setup that I don't need them.

Of course, all of this is pretty much moot since we don't know what
Papy's going to do, and we really should wait for the patch before we
start ***ing and moaning.

PS. I think that bigger issues are a) the too-freqent random damage,
and b) the velcro walls.

by **Ed Solhei** » Sat, 24 May 2003 16:44:21

> Even if they were currently toggleable, I would not race in RASCAR if
> they were forced off, simply because we race with fixed setups.

But thats is *exactly* why we should be able to police these John!

The fixed Papy setups are so extremely bad at some tracks that turning some
of these aids on is virtually like cheating -compared to running without
them..

As for roadies... funny thing you mention this about auto-clutch.. I got a
set of Act-labs pedals so I've turned the auto-clutch off... I still dont
use the clutch much on road-courses - and I've still to loose a gear in 2003
(I think)..
I basicly only use the clutch when getting out of the pits or when trying to
save the car from a spin etc..

b) the velcro walls.

Funny you mention that, as velcro wall fix have always been on the top of my
list... but that all changed when I got aware of the driving-aids problem.
As for random damage; I've yet to experience that, so I cannot comment on
much on the issue.
My current ranking: driving aids-fix, velcro walls, race-list filtering.

--
ed_

by **John Simmon** » Sat, 24 May 2003 18:59:02

I mis-spoke - I meant "open setups and *** races"...

by **John Simmon** » Sat, 24 May 2003 19:10:36

says...

> > Even if they were currently toggleable, I would not race in RASCAR if
> > they were forced off, simply because we race with fixed setups.

> But thats is *exactly* why we should be able to police these John!

> The fixed Papy setups are so extremely bad at some tracks that turning some
> of these aids on is virtually like cheating -compared to running without
> them..

I don't see it as cheating.

I don't have a clutch pedal. If I don't use auto clutch, the engine
revs down wierd, and affects the car's ability to turn. I'm not
saying auto clutch completely eliminates that behavior, but it's a
lot less likely to happen with autoclutch turned on.

by **Mike Grand** » Sat, 24 May 2003 20:17:06

I don't think autoclutch use is the same as traction control and antilock
brakes. Even steering help can improve your times at superspeedways. I would
have never thought it until someone explained why some guys are so fast at
certain tracks and I tried it.

> says...

> > > Even if they were currently toggleable, I would not race in RASCAR if
> > > they were forced off, simply because we race with fixed setups.

> > But thats is *exactly* why we should be able to police these John!

> > The fixed Papy setups are so extremely bad at some tracks that turning
some
> > of these aids on is virtually like cheating -compared to running without
> > them..

> I don't see it as cheating.

> > As for roadies... funny thing you mention this about auto-clutch.. I
got a
> > set of Act-labs pedals so I've turned the auto-clutch off... I still
dont
> > use the clutch much on road-courses - and I've still to loose a gear in
2003
> > (I think)..
> > I basicly only use the clutch when getting out of the pits or when
trying to
> > save the car from a spin etc..

> I don't have a clutch pedal. If I don't use auto clutch, the engine
> revs down wierd, and affects the car's ability to turn. I'm not
> saying auto clutch completely eliminates that behavior, but it's a
> lot less likely to happen with autoclutch turned on.

by **John Simmon** » Sat, 24 May 2003 20:39:49

Well, in the end, I don't know how many of the RASCAR drivers use
driving aids, and I really don't care.

If it makes them more competitive, that's good. If using aids bumps
them up to alien status, who gives a rat's ass? The racing is a lot
more interesting when there's some competition anyway.

I'm just here to race with an acceptable amount of realism, and if I
feel the need, I'll turn on the occasional driving aid - not with the
expectation of gaining speed, but more to keep the car stable and not
cause problems for others. Some of the purists that aren't as
competitive in Rascar should consider using driving aids to bring up
their performance (especially if they don't have a lot of time to
practice), but if they like running in the back, that's fine with me
too.

It's certainly admirable to want to drive the sim without using aids,
but the default fast setups simply do not allow it for some folks.

One last item - while practicing for the upcoming race at C***te,
I had stability control on, and I found I could bump the AI without
being sent into the fence or spinning into the infield. I wonder if
everyone used stability control, would our incident counts go down
since the car behaves in a more realistic fashion?

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 25 May 2003 01:36:52

Roof riding with driving aids on?? May as well fire up the Playstation...

> Well, in the end, I don't know how many of the RASCAR drivers use
> driving aids, and I really don't care.

> If it makes them more competitive, that's good. If using aids bumps
> them up to alien status, who gives a rat's ass? The racing is a lot
> more interesting when there's some competition anyway.

> I'm just here to race with an acceptable amount of realism, and if I
> feel the need, I'll turn on the occasional driving aid - not with the
> expectation of gaining speed, but more to keep the car stable and not
> cause problems for others. Some of the purists that aren't as
> competitive in Rascar should consider using driving aids to bring up
> their performance (especially if they don't have a lot of time to
> practice), but if they like running in the back, that's fine with me
> too.

> It's certainly admirable to want to drive the sim without using aids,
> but the default fast setups simply do not allow it for some folks.

> One last item - while practicing for the upcoming race at C***te,
> I had stability control on, and I found I could bump the AI without
> being sent into the fence or spinning into the infield. I wonder if
> everyone used stability control, would our incident counts go down
> since the car behaves in a more realistic fashion?

> > I don't think autoclutch use is the same as traction control and
antilock
> > brakes. Even steering help can improve your times at superspeedways. I
would
> > have never thought it until someone explained why some guys are so fast
at
> > certain tracks and I tried it.

by **Larr** » Sun, 25 May 2003 01:42:24

Well, that's where I got it from :)

Larry

> I found a lot of tim's setups, but none for daytona?? I was as far back
as
> July 2002 looking before I realized it.

> --
> McWhom
> -----------------------------------------------------------------

> : The fast setup for Daytona is perhaps the worst setup I've ever run at a
> SS.
> :
> : That setup has a TERRIBLE push built into it.
> :
> : If you want a good setup for Daytona, go to the forum and download Tim's
> : Daytona Setup.
> :
> : Now all he has to do is make one for Talledega :)
> :
> : Larry
> :

> : > Hey all,
> : > I have been rolling around Daytona trying to work out the kinks
in
> : > setting up the new Saitek wheel. I am getting a pretty good feel now,
> : > finally figured out how to get rid of a pretty ugly deadzone at
> topcenter.
> : > Seems the center spring setting for non ff games had to be completely
> : > disabled. Started out with the settings posted for the Logitech MOMO
> and
> : > worked from there.
> : > So here is the deal. I am working in traffic pretty well, much
> more
> : > stable now and am able to hold a line in traffic pretty well. I am
> : driving
> : > with the fast setup and am having real trouble staying in line on the
> : > bottom. The car wants to wash up really bad, I have used mild braking
> to
> : > help turn the car but the car really floats and I end up all over the
> : place.
> : > The AI have been dealing with this pretty well and has only resulted
in
> : some
> : > minor bumping going on with a few actuall wrecks happening becuase my
> car
> : > suddenly slides up a groove.
> : > Can anyone give me some driving tips that may help this or should
I
> : > still be working with the wheel setup to try and correct it??
> : >
> : >
> : > --
> : > McWhom
> : > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> : >
> : >
> : >
> :
> :

by **Larr** » Sun, 25 May 2003 03:05:57

I know this much. Automatic Shifting (which I use only at road courses
sometimes because of the heavy-handed random damage) does NOT improve your
times.

You could go grab a cup of coffee between shifts there's so much lag in
there.

Larry

> On Thu, 22 May 2003 16:24:00 +0200, "Ed Solheim"

> >I would also like for us to "ban" all aids - bar clutch - during RASCAR
> >races. I might be talked into allowing racing line - but thats were I'm
> >drawing the line.

> I agree. If driving aids make you faster than we should not use them
> and hopefully papy will come up with a fix to optionally ban them. I
> have never used driving aids (I had them on for about 4 min in N4 and
> promptly turned them off) and up until N2003 it was my understanding
> that they significantly slowed you down. If that was the case I would
> not have problem with them but if they make guys that are all ready
> fast even faster.... pretty close to cheating. I have even heard that
> there are setups out there specifically designed for using driving
> aids that make you very unrealistically fast.... need to get it fixed.

> Actually I drive in hard core mode at all times and I would not have a
> problem if RASCAR forced this, but I also understand that RASCAR
> incorporates a lot of different skill levels...

> Brian Oster

by **Larr** » Sun, 25 May 2003 03:07:45

Ya damn skippy!

Larry

> PS. I think that bigger issues are a) the too-freqent random damage,
> and b) the velcro walls.

by **Brian Oste** » Sun, 25 May 2003 11:08:31

>Banning the auto-clutch aid is not acceptable, especially for road
>courses.

Well, auto-clutch should go without saying. I (along with probably
everyone else) use that one. I don't care if people use them in
RASCAR. However, in N4 and N2002 if you turned them on you were gonna
be slower. It was like there was a trade-off... speed for stability
by turning them on. It sounds like to me if someone like Tim were to
use driving aids it wouldn't slow him down, might make him faster and
may reduce tire wear. That IMO is a problem.

Don't have a huge problem with the velcro walls, there should be a
substantial penelty for getting into the wall. The random damage
needs to be fixed. They should have an option to turn it off for
on-line races and they really need to adjust it. I mean, you hardly
ever see someone lose a transmission in real WC, but it happens about
every race on-line. What really ticks me off is when you jump in the
car too start a race and you are missing gears... shouldn't my pit
crew find that before they even roll me out onto the grid?

Brian Oster

by **Brian Oste** » Sun, 25 May 2003 11:13:35

Ok, I'll give you auto-shifting. Could care less about that one.

Brian Oster

>I know this much. Automatic Shifting (which I use only at road courses
>sometimes because of the heavy-handed random damage) does NOT improve your
>times.

>You could go grab a cup of coffee between shifts there's so much lag in
>there.

>Larry

by **Brian Oste** » Sun, 25 May 2003 11:15:16

I won't even turn them on to test how they effect the car. I have
this fear that it would just f me up and I would not be able to go
back to driving without them. Sorta like crack.

Brian Oster

>One last item - while practicing for the upcoming race at C***te,
>I had stability control on, and I found I could bump the AI without
>being sent into the fence or spinning into the infield. I wonder if
>everyone used stability control, would our incident counts go down
>since the car behaves in a more realistic fashion?

rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel

RASCAR - Practice with new wheel