rec.autos.simulators

>Ah, Scotty, I see you're jabbing people in the ribs again,

> > Tally races are for the newbies, I guess... I've never understood why
Talladega
> > is the most popular track.

>   I happen to like Dega the best... Racing is  NOT "hitting the Brakes"
> and "Slowing down",***that, RACING is going FAST FAST FAST, using
> your skills to hit the corners just right, conserve your tires, draft...
> Braking is for p*$$ies who are scared to go fast ..... Thats just my
> opinion ... Same for Drag Racing, you don't hit the brakes till the race
> is over..  You see some of us like the thrill of extream speed... I do
> in a sim as well as real life (I've gone 155-160 mph) ... we all have
> our things.

> scott

> Who's the wimp here?
> You happen to like Tally most because you aren't able to find your braking
> points on other tracks and don't know where to accelerate, right? Have you
> ever tried gpl? If so did you ever finish a lap without spinning (and
> without full throttle fast fast fast railriding)?
> what's the deal about racing when all you have to do is go flat out? I
> understand you love Tally because you don't need a lot of practise or
skill
> to be a (offline) race winner.
> one of the most fun aspects of racing sims is the cornering technique!
Find
> your braking point, don't lock up, release the brake pedal, steer in and
> gently apply the throttle, don't spin the wheels when exiting.
> If you don't like that in a sim, go find you fun elsewhere and give NFS
and
> other arcade racers a try: full throttle fun and easy! I'm sure you'll
like
> that.
> Ever taken a plane? A Boeing 747 goes FAST FAST FAST too, much faster than
a
> dragster! Does that give you a thrill? No, because you aren't cornering,
> braking, accelerating...
> F1's most boring track is Hockenheim. It's one of the fastest tracks in
F1,
> but drivers complain that it has to much long straights. It ain't a
drivers
> track. All you need is a fast car with the most topspeed. You don't need
to
> be the best driver to win there.

> My point: everybody can accelerate and go fast! You don't need to be
skilled
> for that. Every wimp can do that.

> > > Tally races are for the newbies, I guess... I've never understood why
> Talladega
> > > is the most popular track.

> >   I happen to like Dega the best... Racing is  NOT "hitting the Brakes"
> > and "Slowing down",***that, RACING is going FAST FAST FAST, using
> > your skills to hit the corners just right, conserve your tires, draft...
> > Braking is for p*$$ies who are scared to go fast ..... Thats just my
> > opinion ... Same for Drag Racing, you don't hit the brakes till the race
> > is over..  You see some of us like the thrill of extream speed... I do
> > in a sim as well as real life (I've gone 155-160 mph) ... we all have
> > our things.

> > scott

> GPL is not perfect, they don't tire wear. So a lot of times I would come
> down a hairpin at full speed and just lock them up purposely, just so I
can
> get the car to be more stable. And sometimes you can get better braking
> distance from it (depends on the situation)

> >Who's the wimp here?
> >You happen to like Tally most because you aren't able to find your
braking
> >points on other tracks and don't know where to accelerate, right? Have
you
> >ever tried gpl? If so did you ever finish a lap without spinning (and
> >without full throttle fast fast fast railriding)?
> >what's the deal about racing when all you have to do is go flat out? I
> >understand you love Tally because you don't need a lot of practise or
skill
> >to be a (offline) race winner.
> >one of the most fun aspects of racing sims is the cornering technique!
Find
> >your braking point, don't lock up, release the brake pedal, steer in and
> >gently apply the throttle, don't spin the wheels when exiting.
> >If you don't like that in a sim, go find you fun elsewhere and give NFS
and
> >other arcade racers a try: full throttle fun and easy! I'm sure you'll
like
> >that.
> >Ever taken a plane? A Boeing 747 goes FAST FAST FAST too, much faster
than
> a
> >dragster! Does that give you a thrill? No, because you aren't cornering,
> >braking, accelerating...
> >F1's most boring track is Hockenheim. It's one of the fastest tracks in
F1,
> >but drivers complain that it has to much long straights. It ain't a
drivers
> >track. All you need is a fast car with the most topspeed. You don't need
to
> >be the best driver to win there.

> >My point: everybody can accelerate and go fast! You don't need to be
> skilled
> >for that. Every wimp can do that.

> >> > Tally races are for the newbies, I guess... I've never understood why
> >Talladega
> >> > is the most popular track.

> >>   I happen to like Dega the best... Racing is  NOT "hitting the Brakes"
> >> and "Slowing down",***that, RACING is going FAST FAST FAST, using
> >> your skills to hit the corners just right, conserve your tires,
draft...
> >> Braking is for p*$$ies who are scared to go fast ..... Thats just my
> >> opinion ... Same for Drag Racing, you don't hit the brakes till the
race
> >> is over..  You see some of us like the thrill of extream speed... I do
> >> in a sim as well as real life (I've gone 155-160 mph) ... we all have
> >> our things.

> >> scott

>Who's the wimp here?
>You happen to like Tally most because you aren't able to find your braking
>points on other tracks and don't know where to accelerate, right? Have you
>ever tried gpl? If so did you ever finish a lap without spinning (and
>without full throttle fast fast fast railriding)?
>what's the deal about racing when all you have to do is go flat out? I
>understand you love Tally because you don't need a lot of practise or skill
>to be a (offline) race winner.
>one of the most fun aspects of racing sims is the cornering technique! Find
>your braking point, don't lock up, release the brake pedal, steer in and
>gently apply the throttle, don't spin the wheels when exiting.
>If you don't like that in a sim, go find you fun elsewhere and give NFS and
>other arcade racers a try: full throttle fun and easy! I'm sure you'll like
>that.
>Ever taken a plane? A Boeing 747 goes FAST FAST FAST too, much faster than
a
>dragster! Does that give you a thrill? No, because you aren't cornering,
>braking, accelerating...
>F1's most boring track is Hockenheim. It's one of the fastest tracks in F1,
>but drivers complain that it has to much long straights. It ain't a drivers
>track. All you need is a fast car with the most topspeed. You don't need to
>be the best driver to win there.

>My point: everybody can accelerate and go fast! You don't need to be
skilled
>for that. Every wimp can do that.

>> > Tally races are for the newbies, I guess... I've never understood why
>Talladega
>> > is the most popular track.

>>   I happen to like Dega the best... Racing is  NOT "hitting the Brakes"
>> and "Slowing down",***that, RACING is going FAST FAST FAST, using
>> your skills to hit the corners just right, conserve your tires, draft...
>> Braking is for p*$$ies who are scared to go fast ..... Thats just my
>> opinion ... Same for Drag Racing, you don't hit the brakes till the race
>> is over..  You see some of us like the thrill of extream speed... I do
>> in a sim as well as real life (I've gone 155-160 mph) ... we all have
>> our things.

>> scott

> > Tally races are for the newbies, I guess... I've never understood why
Talladega
> > is the most popular track.

>   I happen to like Dega the best... Racing is  NOT "hitting the Brakes"
> and "Slowing down",***that, RACING is going FAST FAST FAST, using
> your skills to hit the corners just right, conserve your tires, draft...
> Braking is for p*$$ies who are scared to go fast ..... Thats just my
> opinion ... Same for Drag Racing, you don't hit the brakes till the race
> is over..  You see some of us like the thrill of extream speed... I do
> in a sim as well as real life (I've gone 155-160 mph) ... we all have
> our things.

> scott

>GPL is not perfect, they don't tire wear. So a lot of times I would come
>down a hairpin at full speed and just lock them up purposely, just so I can
>get the car to be more stable. And sometimes you can get better braking
>distance from it (depends on the situation)

> Talladega.  What I was getting at, though, was how in the Papy version
> of Daytona you don't drive it any differently than the Papy version of
> Talladega.  It's 100%-foot-to-the-floor all the time.  I was even
> dicing with the AI and changing lines on the banking without lifting.

> > > "Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me> wrote
> > > So you have driven the N3 Daytona track and seen a difference
> > > in the required driving style??? It sounds like Dega with a
> > > Daytona paint job to me.

> > Err... absolutely.  As big as finding the different between Texas
> > Motor Speedway and C***te per example. Change weight a little,
> > camber a little, change the shocks sometimes, put the gear down.
> > Greg you've ever raced the track online?  If you "dega-it", you
> > will wreck.  There is subtile difference that experienced drivers
> > will find the minute they lap the track, like the tri-oval camber
> > elevation change after the S/F line, how the track banking elevates
> > itself, how tight the corner radius is and how it affects downforce.

> Then what the hell is the idiot that started this thread talking about?
> Also, I thought someone said the track wouldn't work online with
> won.net (which is the only way I have been doing online).

> First you are comparing two tracks that are not replicating real life all
> that well. Both Dega and the Papytona have very relaxed tire wear and
fairly
> high grip settings. Why? Think of the number of arcade racers (very broad
> definition here) that only race Dega online. It is simple marketing, and
Im
> sure Papy has learned from the GPL "too difficult so Im returning it"
sales.
> If you were to bring the tires setting to a more realistic stting,
Papy-Tona
> does become more a handling track in which you have to pay attention to
tire
> wear and possible even breath off the throttle hear and there. You think
> that would work for the masses? na, too many people would actually have to
> make a setup.... eeek!

> Second, Tona and Dega have some very big differences that an experienced
sim
> racer or driver would easily recognize. 1) the back straight is shorter,
2)
> the tri-oval is longer, 3) the banking is less, 4) the track width is 8'
> less, 5) the turns have a shorter radius (1000' vs Degas 1100') These may
> not all seem like a lot, but they add up to make a very different track
then
> Dega

> Third, If you know where to look you can see that the Daytona track was
> created wrong. it is 2.5 miles around where the apron meets the track,
while
> Dega is 2.66 miles measured a lane from the outside wall. NASCAR measures
> thier tracks at either 10 or 11 feet from the outside wall, that is what
> determines if the track is 2.5 or 2.7 miles. Unfortunately, the Papytona
is
> probably closer to 2.7 miles long because of this simple design flaw. You
> can test this theory by driving on the apron holding a speed of 60mph...
it
> will take you 2.5 minutes to travel the track. Now do it at 10 feet from
the
> outside wall, it will take you longer than 2.5 min. (60mph = 1 mile per
> minute)

> ----- Original Message -----

> Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 7:03 AM
> Subject: Daytona - Why the Fuss?

> > Howdy,

> > I've recently driven the new Daytona track in N3 and was wondering what
> > everyone is in such a tizzy about.  Sure, the real NASCAR Daytona track
> > is known more as a "handling" track than Talladega, and requires more
> > of the driver to do well, but that's far from the case with the N3
> > version of Daytona.  It's simply flat-out-follow-the-guy-in-front-of-
> > you just like Talladega is.  Different only in name and scenery.  I can
> > appreciate the mysticism that accompanies the name, but it's really no
> > different.

> > Welcoming opinions,

> > -Chris-

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

> > Howdy,

> > I've recently driven the new Daytona track in N3 and was wondering what
> > everyone is in such a tizzy about.  Sure, the real NASCAR Daytona track
> > is known more as a "handling" track than Talladega, and requires more
> > of the driver to do well, but that's far from the case with the N3
> > version of Daytona.  It's simply flat-out-follow-the-guy-in-front-of-
> > you just like Talladega is.  Different only in name and scenery.  I can
> > appreciate the mysticism that accompanies the name, but it's really no
> > different.

> > Welcoming opinions,

> > -Chris-

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

> You know, I don't put much attention to Nascar and the oval racing
business.
> No offense meant there; it's just not my bag.  I *personally* find other
> types of racing more interesting.  But I remember when Senna was killed
how
> stations and newspapers interviewed drivers all across the racing
spectrum,
> and they all showed that they realized it was a profound loss, and all
> showed great respect across the racing profession--from Nascar, to Indy,
to
> NHRA, to whatever.  That made an impression on me--I think I matured a bit
> as a fan.  And I remember also, that when ESPN used to do those "Ask the
> Driver" bits, which were often silly--I remember being absolutely thrilled
> to know that Ricardo Patrese likes spaghetti a lot--for their F1 coverage,
> that many F1 drivers (Derek Warwick, for example) said that they liked to
> watch Nascar.  Warwick said he was a "bit of a fan of that Dale
> Earnhardt--he seems like a tough character."

> I wonder if there's any room in this thread to simply state that
controlling
> a racing vehicle at it's limits (whether Nascar OR F1) demands a LOT of
> skill.  I don't think there's a whole lot of room for "pussies" in either
> series, despite the occasional "pay-to-drive" debacle.

> Just a thought,
> David K.

> > Who's the wimp here?
> > You happen to like Tally most because you aren't able to find your
braking
> > points on other tracks and don't know where to accelerate, right? Have
you
> > ever tried gpl? If so did you ever finish a lap without spinning (and
> > without full throttle fast fast fast railriding)?
> > what's the deal about racing when all you have to do is go flat out? I
> > understand you love Tally because you don't need a lot of practise or
> skill
> > to be a (offline) race winner.
> > one of the most fun aspects of racing sims is the cornering technique!
> Find
> > your braking point, don't lock up, release the brake pedal, steer in and
> > gently apply the throttle, don't spin the wheels when exiting.
> > If you don't like that in a sim, go find you fun elsewhere and give NFS
> and
> > other arcade racers a try: full throttle fun and easy! I'm sure you'll
> like
> > that.
> > Ever taken a plane? A Boeing 747 goes FAST FAST FAST too, much faster
than
> a
> > dragster! Does that give you a thrill? No, because you aren't cornering,
> > braking, accelerating...
> > F1's most boring track is Hockenheim. It's one of the fastest tracks in
> F1,
> > but drivers complain that it has to much long straights. It ain't a
> drivers
> > track. All you need is a fast car with the most topspeed. You don't need
> to
> > be the best driver to win there.

> > My point: everybody can accelerate and go fast! You don't need to be
> skilled
> > for that. Every wimp can do that.

> > > > Tally races are for the newbies, I guess... I've never understood
why
> > Talladega
> > > > is the most popular track.

> > >   I happen to like Dega the best... Racing is  NOT "hitting the
Brakes"
> > > and "Slowing down",***that, RACING is going FAST FAST FAST, using
> > > your skills to hit the corners just right, conserve your tires,
draft...
> > > Braking is for p*$$ies who are scared to go fast ..... Thats just my
> > > opinion ... Same for Drag Racing, you don't hit the brakes till the
race
> > > is over..  You see some of us like the thrill of extream speed... I do
> > > in a sim as well as real life (I've gone 155-160 mph) ... we all have
> > > our things.

> > > scott

> > > Then what the hell is the idiot that started this thread talking
about?
> > > Also, I thought someone said the track wouldn't work online with
> > > won.net (which is the only way I have been doing online).

> > I'm the idiot who started this thread. :)

> Well IMHO after trying the track online (on won.net) and offline
> I can say that you are 100% wrong in all of your assessments of
> Daytona. The rythm is much different than Dega, Mark Martin
> mentioned to his crew that he went 30+ laps without lifting,
> yada yada yada :-)

> --

> Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming
hordes.

> cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

> > I wasn't ever trying to imply that the two Papy tracks were
identical.
> > I was simply pointing out that there wasn't any difference, for me,
in
> > how I had to drive Daytona vs. the way I have to drive Talladega.

> > I'm sure in real life that Daytona is hard to drive.  It's just not
any
> > harder to drive than Talladega (which is darned easy IMHO) in N3.

> > -Chris-

> Tell me, oh Brave One, just how did you, ummm, SLOW DOWN after reaching
your
> stated 155-160 mph?

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------

> > > Tally races are for the newbies, I guess... I've never understood why
> Talladega
> > > is the most popular track.

> >   I happen to like Dega the best... Racing is  NOT "hitting the Brakes"
> > and "Slowing down",***that, RACING is going FAST FAST FAST, using
> > your skills to hit the corners just right, conserve your tires, draft...
> > Braking is for p*$$ies who are scared to go fast ..... Thats just my
> > opinion ... Same for Drag Racing, you don't hit the brakes till the race
> > is over..  You see some of us like the thrill of extream speed... I do
> > in a sim as well as real life (I've gone 155-160 mph) ... we all have
> > our things.

> > scott

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