rec.autos.simulators

by **Andrew Middleto** » Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Hi,

After having another online GPL race ruined by the "twitchy steering"
syndrome I'm going to get a gamecard to see if it helps.

I can find 3 for sale in the UK. The Thrustmaster ACM (30 pounds), the CH
Gamecard (30 pounds) and the PDPI L4 Digital Gameport (80 pounds).

As I know naff all about any of these I'm after some advice. I've narrowed
it down to the two cheaper cards because I have read posts about the PDPI
having problems with the Microsoft FF wheel (next on my shopping list).

So which is better, Trustmaster ACM or the CH Gamecard ?

TIA,

Andy.

by **Julian Taylo** » Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:00

If you're going to buy a MS wheel, you may find this resolves the twitchy
steering without incurring the additional expense of a gamecard too.
I'm dubious about the worth of these gamecards - whilst people advise that
it reduces CPU load by 30-40%, this doesn't then seem to result in a
corresponding improvement in frame-rate - in fact the improvement seems to
be negligible.
At least get the wheel first and then decide whether you need a gamecard.

by **Randy Wilso** » Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>If you're going to buy a MS wheel, you may find this resolves the twitchy
>steering without incurring the additional expense of a gamecard too.
>I'm dubious about the worth of these gamecards - whilst people advise that
>it reduces CPU load by 30-40%, this doesn't then seem to result in a
>corresponding improvement in frame-rate - in fact the improvement seems to
>be negligible.
>At least get the wheel first and then decide whether you need a gamecard.

Also, you won't get any force-feedback (refering to FF games, obviously)
with a game card & MS wheel, since the MS wheel uses the MIDI output of the
gameport to supply FF effects.
I had a TM T2 with major jitters on a SB64. With the MS wheel there are no
jitters. It works GREAT in GPL.

Randy

by **Daisy Du** » Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:00

On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:22:37 -0000, "Andrew Middleton"

>Hi,

>After having another online GPL race ruined by the "twitchy steering"
>syndrome I'm going to get a gamecard to see if it helps.

>I can find 3 for sale in the UK. The Thrustmaster ACM (30 pounds), the CH
>Gamecard (30 pounds) and the PDPI L4 Digital Gameport (80 pounds).

>As I know naff all about any of these I'm after some advice. I've narrowed
>it down to the two cheaper cards because I have read posts about the PDPI
>having problems with the Microsoft FF wheel (next on my shopping list).

>So which is better, Trustmaster ACM or the CH Gamecard ?

>TIA,

>Andy.

Whoa! AM slow down before you do anything! I know absolutely nothing
about the MS FF Wheel but I struggled for a long time with the
"twitchy steering" problem. After reading how to clean pots about
thirty times , I figured out that the problem was the port and not the
pots. At the time I was using the CH Game card that you mentioned. It
never really seemed to make any difference anyway (IMHO , I sure it's
a fine card) so I un installed it and used the game port on my AWE64
(isa). Still , in GPL anyway, twitching steering and that's no fun
doing 190 or so down Masta. So then I removed the AWE64 and installed
a Turtle Beach Daytona PCI sound card that I had lying around (I never
really like it all that much). So I fire up GPL and to my surprise:
problem solved! smooth turning from lock to lock and as a bonus I got
a few FPS more (particularly at starts) and was able to turn a few
more details on. So my unscientific conclusion is to avoid using any
game port that is on the ISA bus. I don't know why. I'm not a bench
marking nerd who has to quantify every 1/2 fps that I squeeze out. I
do know that the analog input in GPL in rock solid now and that I'm
getting enough of a frame rate increase to enjoy GPL just a little
more just by moving my game port to the PCI bus. I must mention that
from reading other post on the subject ,it seems to make the biggest
difference on low horsepower machines. My rig is a P166 MMX o/c to 225
on a 1 meg cache MoBo , 64 meg ram , Stealth II.
Good luck. I hope this helps because I've been there and it's a
really irritating problem.

by **Alan Chandl** » Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:00

> Whoa! AM slow down before you do anything! I know absolutely nothing
>about the MS FF Wheel but I struggled for a long time with the
>"twitchy steering" problem. After reading how to clean pots about
>thirty times , I figured out that the problem was the port and not the
>pots. At the time I was using the CH Game card that you mentioned. It
>never really seemed to make any difference anyway (IMHO , I sure it's
>a fine card) so I un installed it and used the game port on my AWE64
>(isa). Still , in GPL anyway, twitching steering and that's no fun
>doing 190 or so down Masta. So then I removed the AWE64 and installed
>a Turtle Beach Daytona PCI sound card that I had lying around (I never
>really like it all that much). So I fire up GPL and to my surprise:
>problem solved!

I think it is the ISA sound card that causes the problem. It locks
the whole bus during the period that the sound is transmitted to it -
so I expect the joystick routines are finding variations in timing and
simulating the spiky movement!

I have been told the PCI sound does not do this (I have a PCI sound
chip on the motherboard chosen for this specific reason). Don't
exactly know why - some characteristic of the PCI bus mastering I
believe.

Alan

http://www.chandler.u-net.com

by **Andrew Middleto** » Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I think it is the ISA sound card that causes the problem. It locks
the whole bus during the period that the sound is transmitted to it -
so I expect the joystick routines are finding variations in timing and
simulating the spiky movement!

I have been told the PCI sound does not do this (I have a PCI sound
chip on the motherboard chosen for this specific reason). Don't
exactly know why - some characteristic of the PCI bus mastering I
believe.

Alan

http://www.chandler.u-net.com

nice theory Alan but I forgot to mention that I have a PCI soundcard ;-)

As well as the twitchy steering it is also giving poor sound quality in GPL
although it's ok in other games (not that I bother with them anymore !)

Should have mentioned in original post......

PII 350 Mhz
64 Mb
12 Mb Monster Voodoo II
Win 98
Ensoniq PCI 64v

Thanks for the replies - maybe I should ignore the gamecard and just go
straight to the wheel as suggested. I'm off to try and find out if you can
plug the MS FF wheel into the USB port.

Andy.

by **Kirk Lan** » Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Strange...
I have a SB AWE64 ISA and a Thrustmaster T1 wheel..
I experience absolutely none of the twitchiness you guys are getting...
Here's my system:
PII 350
ASUS P2B
IBM Deskstar 8.4
Matrox Millenium G200 8MB SDRAM
SB AWE64 ISA

Kirk Lane

> Whoa! AM slow down before you do anything! I know absolutely nothing
>about the MS FF Wheel but I struggled for a long time with the
>"twitchy steering" problem. After reading how to clean pots about
>thirty times , I figured out that the problem was the port and not the
>pots. At the time I was using the CH Game card that you mentioned. It
>never really seemed to make any difference anyway (IMHO , I sure it's
>a fine card) so I un installed it and used the game port on my AWE64
>(isa). Still , in GPL anyway, twitching steering and that's no fun
>doing 190 or so down Masta. So then I removed the AWE64 and installed
>a Turtle Beach Daytona PCI sound card that I had lying around (I never
>really like it all that much). So I fire up GPL and to my surprise:
>problem solved!

I think it is the ISA sound card that causes the problem. It locks
the whole bus during the period that the sound is transmitted to it -
so I expect the joystick routines are finding variations in timing and
simulating the spiky movement!

I have been told the PCI sound does not do this (I have a PCI sound
chip on the motherboard chosen for this specific reason). Don't
exactly know why - some characteristic of the PCI bus mastering I
believe.

Alan

http://www.chandler.u-net.com

by **alan** » Sat, 16 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Umm, sorry, not so simple. I have a Sonic Impact PCI card, and it
means I can now have all 16 sounds with out any frame rate drop,
whereas with my SB16 it would drop by 3-4 fps with all sounds turned
on.

But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The
DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to
speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not
enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present
skill level.

It just means I have to turn off the graphics for the hands (and,
unfortunately, that means the wheel as well ). I find once I do that,
I don't even notice the twitching.

All the same, I'm saving up for a better wheel - and, from what I've
read, a USB-connected wheel seems the best bet for twitchlessness.

Cheers

Alan

by **David A. Ewin** » Sat, 16 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>It just means I have to turn off the graphics for the hands (and,
>unfortunately, that means the wheel as well ). I find once I do that,
>I don't even notice the twitching.

The problem with twitching hands isn't just visual. The hands are a good
indicator of what your controller is doing. So if it's twitching, you're
getting a lot of noise in your input that makes your driving considerably
less precise.

For the record, my hands twitch quite a bit with a Thrustmaster T2 connected
to a Turtle Beach Montego PCI card via Direct Input. I have sent away to TM
for a new pot and bungee cord (which has become too slack as well).

Dave Ewing

by **Michael E. Carve** » Sat, 16 Jan 1999 04:00:00

For DirectInput, make sure you have "poll with interrupts" unchecked in
the advanced options of the Game Controllers applet.

% But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The
% DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to
% speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not
% enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present
% skill level.

% It just means I have to turn off the graphics for the hands (and,
% unfortunately, that means the wheel as well ). I find once I do that,
% I don't even notice the twitching.

% All the same, I'm saving up for a better wheel - and, from what I've
% read, a USB-connected wheel seems the best bet for twitchlessness.

% Cheers

% Alan

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Sam Seni** » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:23:44 GMT, "Michael E. Carver"

>For DirectInput, make sure you have "poll with interrupts" unchecked in
>the advanced options of the Game Controllers applet.

>% But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The
>% DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to
>% speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not
>% enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present
>% skill level.

I just added a PDPI L4 card to my PII 400 w/ Monster II. Using great
wheel, TSW Sport. Arms still have advanced "Parkinson's" and the cars
seem even more twitchy. Poll w/ interupts unchecked, direct input.
Calibration looks steady but cars sometimes leap at the scenery. Don't
think it's dirty pot, just started on gameport installation. Maybe
it's a bug in the game itself. Using a Viewsonic PT775, high refresh
rates. Prozak, anyone?
Sam

by **Bart Westr** » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:23:44 GMT, "Michael E. Carver"

>>For DirectInput, make sure you have "poll with interrupts" unchecked in
>>the advanced options of the Game Controllers applet.

>>% But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The
>>% DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to
>>% speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not
>>% enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present
>>% skill level.

>I just added a PDPI L4 card to my PII 400 w/ Monster II. Using great
>wheel, TSW Sport. Arms still have advanced "Parkinson's" and the cars
>seem even more twitchy. Poll w/ interupts unchecked, direct input.
>Calibration looks steady but cars sometimes leap at the scenery. Don't
>think it's dirty pot, just started on gameport installation. Maybe
>it's a bug in the game itself. Using a Viewsonic PT775, high refresh
>rates. Prozak, anyone?
>Sam

I think you are not using the PDPI port driver in Control Panel -
Gamecontrollers - Advanced. When you do, the check box for Poll w/
interrupts disappears.
In GPL use direct input, not generic as it goes directly to the game port
bypassing the PDPI driver.

Bart Westra

by **Jake Myer** » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Suprised nobody has suggested completely removing sound card and software
and then reinstalling them...might work....did for me.

Jake Myers

>>On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:23:44 GMT, "Michael E. Carver"

>>>For DirectInput, make sure you have "poll with interrupts" unchecked in
>>>the advanced options of the Game Controllers applet.

>>>% But the PCI card has had absolutely no effect on the shaky hands! The
>>>% DirectInput driver is impossible to use, just all twitch (so to
>>>% speak), and the Generic driver also twitches away constantly - but not
>>>% enough to mess up the control too badly - at least not at my present
>>>% skill level.

>>I just added a PDPI L4 card to my PII 400 w/ Monster II. Using great
>>wheel, TSW Sport. Arms still have advanced "Parkinson's" and the cars
>>seem even more twitchy. Poll w/ interupts unchecked, direct input.
>>Calibration looks steady but cars sometimes leap at the scenery. Don't
>>think it's dirty pot, just started on gameport installation. Maybe
>>it's a bug in the game itself. Using a Viewsonic PT775, high refresh
>>rates. Prozak, anyone?
>>Sam

>I think you are not using the PDPI port driver in Control Panel -
>Gamecontrollers - Advanced. When you do, the check box for Poll w/
>interrupts disappears.
>In GPL use direct input, not generic as it goes directly to the game port
>bypassing the PDPI driver.

>Bart Westra

by **alan** » Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:00:00

On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:16:35 -0500, "Jake Myers"

>Suprised nobody has suggested completely removing sound card and software
>and then reinstalling them...might work....did for me.

>Jake Myers

I have installed, uninstalled, tried different slots, reinstalled GPL,
reinstalled Win95, unchecked interupts (and vice versa, just in case),
done all of above changing the order I did them so in the end I had
tried every possible permutation, ad nauseum. Nothing has worked.
Parkinson's still there, unplayable with Direct Input, bearable with
generic.
I gave up on this 2 weeks ago. Now I'm just hoping the problem will go
away when I get a USB-connected wheel (which I suppose will force me
to go to Win98 from 95b), or a Gamecard, or there is a fix for this
Windows problem.
I think it is Windows fault because the Parkinsons exists in the Win95
calibration test screen. So I think GPL is just doing it's best with
very "noisy" input it is receiving from Windows.
Still, I'm still managing to improve at GPL, so I have to admit the
main reason for my slow times is my own skill level, not hardware
problems! I don't think I'll *need* to cure the shakes for a few weeks
yet.
Alan.

rec.autos.simulators

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