rec.autos.simulators

The track pack(s) for NASCAR Racing will be available around May.  There
is no commitment on which tracks will be there, but Daytona and Indy will
definitely not be in them (see below).

A patch for NASCAR Racing to fix the AI at Talladega, caution flag problems,
and some other stuff is imminent.  It sounds like we'll see a patch before
the track packs in May, but maybe they'll wait until then and release a big
update all at once.

On the subject of tracks, Papyrus commented that licensing the tracks for
inclusion in the games is a problem.  Sega has obtained exclusive rights
to Daytona in name and image (which is unfortunate since their Daytona
game is just an arcade game and the tracks are nowhere near the real
thing) and they won't let Papyrus sub-license it.  Apparently Indy is
also a problem, both for the NASCAR Brickyard 400 and for Indycar 2's
Indy 500.  My guess is that they just want too much $$$ for the rights.
They hinted that some other NASCAR tracks might also be a problem.  So,
don't rag on Papyrus for this stuff -- write to the racing organizations
(NASCAR and CART) or the track owners if you're pissed.

DISCLAIMER:  I don't work for Papyrus.  I don't know anyone that works
at Papyrus.  I have no vested interest whatsoever in Papyrus, NASCAR,
Indycar or any tracks.  This info is from postings on Papyrus' section
on Compuserve, and is from the best of my recollection.  Apologies in
advance for any errors or ommissions.  Your mileage may vary.

Paul

Don't write THAT release date either.

Hah!  It will be a miracle of incredible dimensions if you see that patch out
before the track packs.
---



IWCC:   http://www.webcom.com/~zyllyx/welcome.html        MM#6/JA#37/DM#71/DW#17

I have spent many years writing and developing computer systems not
near the complexity of what goes into sims like Nascar and Indycar and
have all too often seen completion dates slip and bugs surface YEARS
after the original code was put in production. The development process
is just not all science yet.

Why not enjoy what you have and be patient knowing that Papyrus has said
they will deliver a patch and they have yet to fail making good on their
commitments as far as I know.

Regarding "go throw away the old Indycar..." Can you honestly say that
you didn't get your money's worth with this sim?

Regards,

Jeff Haas

Tony:
Yep...  If they could _charge_ for a patch, we might be more likely to see it sometime in the
near future, but...

-------------------//-------------------------------
   | )/-\(_)|__   //    "Pioneer, searcher, refugee,      
   | nightshade  //    I follow you and you follow me"  
----------------//----------------- Grace Slick ----    

However, it's hard to be optimistic when all you've heard about the patch
since December is, "It'll be out in a couple of weeks."
---



IWCC:   http://www.webcom.com/~zyllyx/welcome.html        MM#6/JA#37/DM#71/DW#17

I also program, and I am aware that bugs are hard to pin down and fix.  
However, I ALSO am a member of ACM, and if you'd read the code of ethics it
clearly states that it is INFINITELY preferable not to program and then
distribute code with known bugs.  My main disagreement with Papyrus' Upper
Management is that they did so in order to get the product on the shelf by
Christmas.  I'd rather have waited an extra year for a cleaner product.

I have no doubt that the patch will come out.  I don't fault the programmers
at Papyrus at all -- it's clearly an upper-management business decision.

---



IWCC:   http://www.racesimcentral.net/~zyllyx/welcome.html        MM#6/JA#37/DM#71/DW#17

I would really like to know what bug you are talking about.  I have ran all
the races many times and have had very few problems.

        Jeffrey K. Stier

The version 1.2 patch is basically finished and in final testing.  They won't
commit to a date, but it's only a couple of weeks away.  Oh, and I forgot to
mention yesterday that it is supposed include multi-player capabilties as well.

Paul
(now wearing full nomex fire suit)

Martinsville.  Try running a 50% race there.  I have received 10 results from
this week's IWCC race so far and ALL of them have had complaints about the
bugs.  I'll summarize a few here:

a) Yellow flag bugs - Cars whizzing at 300mph into walls, into the grass,
THROUGH the pit wall, ramming you in your pit stall when you're on the jack,
stopping and queueing up in front of your pit stall for no apparent reason,
driving at 25mph at the bottom of the track, allowing pace car to lap them...
that's a sample.

b) Phantom stay-behind messages -- Exiting the pits (or even just staying on
the track) you receive a multitude of stay-behind messages after not having
passed a SINGLE car.  Receive instant black flag at green flag.

c) Pit time problems -- getting small dent in fender and waiting two laps in
the pits for repairs to finish (approx 1:50).  This may just be a design flaw.

d) AI -- driving through the grass and pranging you at full speed in the
corners for no reason at all.  Weaving rapidly like pinballs bouncing off the
outer, then inner walls.  See yellow flag bugs for cross reference.

Now multiply this by 15 times and you'll have an idea of what I went through
yesterday.
---



IWCC:   http://www.webcom.com/~zyllyx/welcome.html        MM#6/JA#37/DM#71/DW#17

So THATS the problem.  I just figured I didn't know shit about NASCAR
rules and was doing something wrong, although I really could not for the
life of me figure it out.

Jeff

The 1.2 patch does not contain any multiplayer features
(that is for more than 2 players).  I believe we made
internal changes to support multiplayer for when it becomes
available.

Rich/Papyrus

: Martinsville.  Try running a 50% race there.  I have received 10 results from
: this week's IWCC race so far and ALL of them have had complaints about the
: bugs.  I'll summarize a few here:

: a) Yellow flag bugs - Cars whizzing at 300mph into walls, into the grass,
: THROUGH the pit wall, ramming you in your pit stall when you're on the jack,
: stopping and queueing up in front of your pit stall for no apparent reason,
: driving at 25mph at the bottom of the track, allowing pace car to lap them...
: that's a sample.

Hmmm, I'll have to try a 50% race here... the ONLY problem I've ever had
at Martinsville has been once I got hammered coming out of the pits, and
we both crashed.  I was able to continue on and win the race (95%
opponents 25% race length) but I'd already lapped most of the field :)
Other than that, I have had zero problems there.  And I've raced at
Martinsville more than any other race track on that CD....

the pit problems, wouldn't it be nice if we had good, SMART crew chiefs?  
they might say "Go go go! come back in next lap, but don't go a lap
down!" and then  you come back in next lap (and you don't have to fiddle
with don't change the tires on the NEXT lap... that sorta thing) maybe
program a crew chief interface, where ahead of time, you work all these
out with yes/no questions.  

: Now multiply this by 15 times and you'll have an idea of what I went through
: yesterday.

that really sucks, too bad you went thru that.  Sometimes the computer
jsut doesn't have a good day... perhaps that's when you reboot (cold
reboot) and try again and see if it's still acting up.

--

I was hoping there were some bug fixes in the new patch...
I have 1.1 Nascar and occasionally it just does a core dump
to the screen and goes to the C: prompt. This has happened
while selecting garage as well as other times. Sometimes
it happens when I am not selecting anything, just racing
along. 486DX2,Trident SVGA,8MB,Low Detail levels,no mem
manager, soundblaster 16...... anyone else with these type of
problems with Nascar?

 | flames.ignored.agreement.expected.questions.considered    |

 | your.mileage.may.vary.do.you.know.where.your.xist.is ?    |
 |       or.more.importantly.when.your.xist.is ?             |

Paul

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