rec.autos.simulators

Disagree. Each car has its own nuance.

I'm sure they do.  But do they actually accurately capture these
in the other sims?  Or are they ignore,d or faked? Do you know for
a fact how GT models the cars?  Or how the usual suspect "real
sims" model theirs?

And maybe Polyphony's team & budget are so big that they can do
this in GT with the majority, if not all, of the vehicles too.  
Yes, there are 700 cars, but about half of them are Skylines and
Evos :-)

Let's not get carried away here, Herr Henrie.  The most complimentary
thing I've probably said is he won the war in spite of himself. ;-)

-jde

And how much seat time did Papyrus have in the GPL cars?  How much seat
time did the developers of GTR have in the FIA cars?  What about Papy
and CART?  Not open wheel cars but specifically champ cars?  How much
seat time did Polyphony have in their cars?  Have you seen the
documentaries where they would test hundreds of cars?  Actual seat and
track time with cars provided by the manufacturer.  On top of that,
each manufacturer would provide countless amount of data and
measurements for the cars modeled.  GT may not be perfect, it may not
even be close and it may be a huge leap from reality but the fact
remains that more effort has been made in the GT series than any of
your so called sims.

Of course, to read the tacho you have to look at it. But it's always
there in a sim.

You were saying the***pit is not needed, ever, thus it's
useless to add it to a sim, eh, game. So what is it now?

l8er
ronny

Haha...tosspot.

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:25:22 +0100, Ronald Stoehr

No, I didn't say that.

I just don't agree with the "it's not a sim without a***pit" view.

And it is always there in GT4, too.  Just not surrounded by a lot
of pretty dashwork.  Again, I wish they did include it.  But to
say it isn't a sim because they don't show a steering wheel
(actually, you do have this option), or bits of a dash is well,
it's your opinion.  Can't you see why it isn't absolutely a
criteria for Simdomhood for all?

Usual knocks against the GT series:

1) No dash
A: see above.

2) "Bumper view"
Again, I say it isn't a bumper height, nor bumper longitudinal
location.  Yes, I very much wish they had some fenderwork so you
could get a better feel for where you are.  Note that in many a
real car, you don't see much fender either.  Not a real excuse.  I
wish they had it.

3) Crappy AI.
Guilty as charged.  This is the worst part, IMO.  But I spend >50%
of my time as the *only* car on the track, ie hotlapping.  As many
do with GPL.

4) Only 6 cars in a race.
A: Yes, I wished there were more. See above hotlapping comment.

5) No damage.
A: No big deal for me.  Unless the AI is real good, I'd turn it
off.  I turn it off in every PC sim I've ever played and that's
most all of the ones heralded here.

6) No online.
Guilty. Not an issue for me, but for many it is.

As to driving model, using gross comments about lots of cars
(or console game) means poor model, just isn't a very compelling
argument.  To be fair, I've seen some good discourses on where it
*may* be lacking.  And I've read as many, or more, from enthusiast
racers who say it handles very much like real cars on a track at
speed.  So, who to believe?  It passes my suspension of disbelief
test, for the most part.

Be honest, do you really, really know what their physics model
does and doesn't include?  How about for your favorite sim?

Is it the highest fidelity sim out there?  I doubt it.  Is it a
sim?  Absolutely.  Is it the most fun sim out there?  To me, yes.

This coming from an individual that believes something other than
physics dictates the nuances of an automobile.

    On my copy you can get a hood view complete with fenders.

/snip

Elrikk

Go play your GT4 arcade weenie game. It sure ain't no racing sim.