rec.autos.simulators

by **Brad DuTempl** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

I use my Logitech Wingman Formula Force USB steering wheel when I play Grand
Prix Legends. The Profiler software that ships along with the hardware
allows _some_ adjustment for axis properties and deadzones. (but not enough)

On the Logitech WingmanTeam website
http://www.racesimcentral.net/#DXTweak
logitech has released a utility called DXTweak which promises to do
everything I need in regards of axis properties adjustment.

DXTweak seems to work fine, I can make adjustments to the R axis (brake
axis), and see the effects immediately within GPL. I even set the wheel
axis to 50% deadzone so that I would know right away in GPL that the
adjustment was recognized.
The problem, seems to be that Grand Prix Legends ignores any changes made by
DXTweak. DXTeak modifies Directinput values, and GPL uses DirectInput
(which I have selected in GPL), so why do these two programs not get along?

What I am trying to achieve is a method of adjusting the braking axis, such
that I can have not lock up the wheels in GPL (with warm tires of course)
until the pedal is at (or very near) the end of it's travel. As it is, I
get full four wheel lockup at only 3/4 pedal travel. I think I would find
it much more driveable if I could adjust the braking axis more to my liking.

by **G Kuche** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

try this...go into your player folder and delete your controls.cfg
file........then when you go back into gpl......reset your
controls.....you should get a clean setup then...maybe then you can get
along with your wheel better....

> I use my Logitech Wingman Formula Force USB steering wheel when I play Grand
> Prix Legends. The Profiler software that ships along with the hardware
> allows _some_ adjustment for axis properties and deadzones. (but not enough)

> On the Logitech WingmanTeam website
> http://www.wingmanteam.com/Latest_Software/Gadgets/gadgets.htm#DXTweak
> logitech has released a utility called DXTweak which promises to do
> everything I need in regards of axis properties adjustment.

> DXTweak seems to work fine, I can make adjustments to the R axis (brake
> axis), and see the effects immediately within GPL. I even set the wheel
> axis to 50% deadzone so that I would know right away in GPL that the
> adjustment was recognized.
> The problem, seems to be that Grand Prix Legends ignores any changes made by
> DXTweak. DXTeak modifies Directinput values, and GPL uses DirectInput
> (which I have selected in GPL), so why do these two programs not get along?

> What I am trying to achieve is a method of adjusting the braking axis, such
> that I can have not lock up the wheels in GPL (with warm tires of course)
> until the pedal is at (or very near) the end of it's travel. As it is, I
> get full four wheel lockup at only 3/4 pedal travel. I think I would find
> it much more driveable if I could adjust the braking axis more to my liking.

by **Brad DuTempl** » Thu, 03 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Thanks for the suggestion to try CTFJ3. I downloaded the new version and
tried it out, with mixed results. Here's my e-mail to Bob Church, author of
CTFJ3;

=====================================
How the heck are ya Bob? I've mailed you about CTFJ in the past when I
tried out version 2xx. At that point it would not work properly at all with
my Logitech Wingman Formula Force USB steering wheel controller.

I've had somewhat more success with version 3. Changes to the X axis are
immediately apparent in GPL, and I have adjusted my steering to where it's
better now than it's ever been.

The problem seems to be with the R axis which the LWMFF uses for the brake
pedal.
From reading the CTFJ3 manual, I determined that reducing the sensitvity of
the R axis would have the desired result.

Desired result = Currently all four wheels will lock up completely in GPL
with only 2/3 - 3/4 pedal travel. I would like to adjust the braking axis
so that I can get the pedal closer to the stop when the wheels lock up in
GPL.

When I reduce the sensitivity on the R axis with CTFJ3, it does not affect
the brake pedal 'position' at all. I.e., the wheels still lock up long
before full pedal travel. What does happen, is that there is a steady drag
on the pedals. If I set the sensitivity to something really low, like 55 or
60, then I can't even get the car out of the pits because the brakes are
locking the wheels.

GPL uses Directinput, because there is a configuration choice to use either
the Generic or DirectInput joystick API.

This looks like a really cool little utility! Is Sierra doing something
goofy with thier joystick interface?

Thanks in advance for your time and efforts Bob.
=============================

by **Bill Mas** » Thu, 03 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Brad,

Have you played with the DZone settings for the brake? I'm wondering if
this would help.........

Bill

>> Try this freebie. It allows you to tailor ANYTHING about your joystick
>axes..

>> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlchurch/ctfjv303.zip

>> [768K]

>> CTFJV303.ZIP contains version 3.03 of the CTFJ Joystick Utility for W95
>and W98.
>> In addition to the improved scaling and deadzone routines and expanded
>scaling methods
>> provided in the earlier version, CTFJ3 includes gain adjustments for the
X
>and Y axes
>> which allow you to tailor your joystick response.
>> --
>> // rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

>Thanks for the suggestion to try CTFJ3. I downloaded the new version and
>tried it out, with mixed results. Here's my e-mail to Bob Church, author
of
>CTFJ3;

>=====================================
>How the heck are ya Bob? I've mailed you about CTFJ in the past when I
>tried out version 2xx. At that point it would not work properly at all
with
>my Logitech Wingman Formula Force USB steering wheel controller.

>I've had somewhat more success with version 3. Changes to the X axis are
>immediately apparent in GPL, and I have adjusted my steering to where it's
>better now than it's ever been.

>The problem seems to be with the R axis which the LWMFF uses for the brake
>pedal.
>From reading the CTFJ3 manual, I determined that reducing the sensitvity of
>the R axis would have the desired result.

>Desired result = Currently all four wheels will lock up completely in GPL
>with only 2/3 - 3/4 pedal travel. I would like to adjust the braking axis
>so that I can get the pedal closer to the stop when the wheels lock up in
>GPL.

>When I reduce the sensitivity on the R axis with CTFJ3, it does not affect
>the brake pedal 'position' at all. I.e., the wheels still lock up long
>before full pedal travel. What does happen, is that there is a steady drag
>on the pedals. If I set the sensitivity to something really low, like 55
or
>60, then I can't even get the car out of the pits because the brakes are
>locking the wheels.

>GPL uses Directinput, because there is a configuration choice to use either
>the Generic or DirectInput joystick API.

>This looks like a really cool little utility! Is Sierra doing something
>goofy with thier joystick interface?

>Thanks in advance for your time and efforts Bob.
>=============================

by **Bob Chur** » Thu, 03 Jun 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:29:37 GMT, "Brad DuTemple"

>When I reduce the sensitivity on the R axis with CTFJ3, it does not affect
>the brake pedal 'position' at all. I.e., the wheels still lock up long
>before full pedal travel. What does happen, is that there is a steady drag
>on the pedals. If I set the sensitivity to something really low, like 55 or
>60, then I can't even get the car out of the pits because the brakes are
>locking the wheels.

>GPL uses Directinput, because there is a configuration choice to use either
>the Generic or DirectInput joystick API.

>This looks like a really cool little utility! Is Sierra doing something
>goofy with thier joystick interface?

Hi Brad,

Figured I might as well answer this out here. The problem is that not
all pedals work the same. I threw the 'Range' adjustment in based on a
message that Trips posted here a couple of weeks back where he said
he'd reduced the braking effectiveness by adding some resistance to
the pot while he calibrated, then taking it out again while he drove.
The 'Range' adjustment has that same effect.

What happens is that some brake pedals, TMs for one, I think, start
with the brake pedal showing minimum resistance at release, the
resistance increases as you press it. Say it goes from 0 (released) to
100 (fully depressed). You can use the 'Range' adjustment to cut it
back so it runs from 0 to, say, 80, cutting back on the amount of
maximum brake.

Other brake pedals (apparently yours, for one) show maximum resistance
when released and minimum resistance when pressed. The 'Range' still
cuts the maximum resistance, so you'd see the 80 when released and 0
when fully pressed. Since the game is expecting 100 at full release,
the 'Range' ends up applying a constant brake force and won't reduce
the maximum braking force at all (since they still go to all the way
to 0).

What I'll need to do is to add a check box to 'reverse' the way the
'Range' applies the scaling in that situation. What you really need is
a pedal that went from 100 to 20, not 80 to 0, and the check box would
tell it to scale the thing that way. People with pedals that went the
other way (min at release, max at press) would leave it unchecked and
their pedals would go from 0 to 80 like the current adjustment does.

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

by **Brad DuTempl** » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Bob,

I've just been trying out the new update (ctfjb310) that you posted;

http://www.stickworks.com/

In a word, Awesome!

CTFJ now allows me to adjust my braking axis exactly where I want it. I've
been trying it with the R axis set at -80 for a first run.

With this setting, the tires will lock up under full braking when cold, but
not when hot.
With more usable travel, trail braking is much much easier. Just in time
for Mosport, where our league is set to race on Tuesday night!
I think I'll try a little higher setting, say 85 or so, till I get some lock
with hot tires, and then back it off a notch.

Thank you ever so much!

by **Bill Mas** » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Brad,

Do you use the Logitech Profiler in conjuction with CTFJB ( that is, do you
load a Logi profile with GPL AS WELL as CTFJB), or do you use it standalone?
If standalone, do you keep the profiler on the system tray, or do you close
it down?

Reason I'm asking is, I tried the two together with GPL, got a lockup, and
when I re-booted, my Logitech control test panel ( the one with the wheel,
brake,and accelerator panels), was munged up. The wheel icon would not
move, nor would the brake one ( it showed pegged all the way to the right).
A re-install did no good. BTW, the wheel still worked in games (including
GPL!).

I had to competely remove all references to Logitech Wingman Formula Force,
and the driver files, then re-install the CD software, then the 3.20 update.
Needless to say, I'm a little "leery" of repeating this exercise.

BTW, I love Bob's stuff - he's been around the flight sim forums for
years....

Bill

>Bob,

>I've just been trying out the new update (ctfjb310) that you posted;

>http://www.stickworks.com/

>In a word, Awesome!

>CTFJ now allows me to adjust my braking axis exactly where I want it. I've
>been trying it with the R axis set at -80 for a first run.

>With this setting, the tires will lock up under full braking when cold, but
>not when hot.
>With more usable travel, trail braking is much much easier. Just in time
>for Mosport, where our league is set to race on Tuesday night!
>I think I'll try a little higher setting, say 85 or so, till I get some
lock
>with hot tires, and then back it off a notch.

>Thank you ever so much!

by **Andre Warrin** » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00

As soon as I run the program, when I go to the windows calibration
screen, all the meters are fully to the right, as if I'm pressing both
pedals to the max. The wheel meter is completely to the left as if I
turn the wheel completely to the left.
When I unload CTFJB everything is immediately normal again.
I doesn't matter if I run the Wingman profiler or not.

The difference between my problem and Bill's problem is that my
settings return to normal when I unload CTFJB, I didn't have to
reinstall the wingman software.

I must say by the way that I installed the final 3.20 version of the
wingman profiler software, and downloaded the gpl settings from the
wingman site. I found the first one in the customers list the best, I
can brake much more preciser now.

I don't know if I need the CTFJB software, but I'm curious to try if
my braking improves even more with CTFJB, so if anyone has a solution,
I'd be very thankfull.

Andre

>Brad,

>Do you use the Logitech Profiler in conjuction with CTFJB ( that is, do you
>load a Logi profile with GPL AS WELL as CTFJB), or do you use it standalone?
>If standalone, do you keep the profiler on the system tray, or do you close
>it down?

>Reason I'm asking is, I tried the two together with GPL, got a lockup, and
>when I re-booted, my Logitech control test panel ( the one with the wheel,
>brake,and accelerator panels), was munged up. The wheel icon would not
>move, nor would the brake one ( it showed pegged all the way to the right).
>A re-install did no good. BTW, the wheel still worked in games (including
>GPL!).

>I had to competely remove all references to Logitech Wingman Formula Force,
>and the driver files, then re-install the CD software, then the 3.20 update.
>Needless to say, I'm a little "leery" of repeating this exercise.

>BTW, I love Bob's stuff - he's been around the flight sim forums for
>years....

>Bill

>>Bob,

>>I've just been trying out the new update (ctfjb310) that you posted;

>>http://www.stickworks.com/

>>In a word, Awesome!

>>CTFJ now allows me to adjust my braking axis exactly where I want it. I've
>>been trying it with the R axis set at -80 for a first run.

>>With this setting, the tires will lock up under full braking when cold, but
>>not when hot.
>>With more usable travel, trail braking is much much easier. Just in time
>>for Mosport, where our league is set to race on Tuesday night!
>>I think I'll try a little higher setting, say 85 or so, till I get some
>lock
>>with hot tires, and then back it off a notch.

>>Thank you ever so much!

by **Brad DuTempl** » Sun, 06 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Bill,

No. I do not run the Wingman Profiler software at all. I have installed
the release version 3.20 that was posted a few days ago, but I no longer run
the profiler in the system tray.

I find that CTFJ replaces the profiler for me, and gives me MUCH better
control over my Wingman Formula Focrce Wheel.

GPL is more fun than ever now! Install CTFJ and give it a try, it's worth
the (minimal) effort required.

> Brad,

> Do you use the Logitech Profiler in conjuction with CTFJB ( that is, do
you
> load a Logi profile with GPL AS WELL as CTFJB), or do you use it
standalone?
> If standalone, do you keep the profiler on the system tray, or do you
close
> it down?

> Reason I'm asking is, I tried the two together with GPL, got a lockup, and
> when I re-booted, my Logitech control test panel ( the one with the wheel,
> brake,and accelerator panels), was munged up. The wheel icon would not
> move, nor would the brake one ( it showed pegged all the way to the
right).
> A re-install did no good. BTW, the wheel still worked in games (including
> GPL!).

> I had to competely remove all references to Logitech Wingman Formula
Force,
> and the driver files, then re-install the CD software, then the 3.20
update.
> Needless to say, I'm a little "leery" of repeating this exercise.

> BTW, I love Bob's stuff - he's been around the flight sim forums for
> years....

> Bill

> >Bob,

> >I've just been trying out the new update (ctfjb310) that you posted;

> >http://www.stickworks.com/

> >In a word, Awesome!

> >CTFJ now allows me to adjust my braking axis exactly where I want it.
I've
> >been trying it with the R axis set at -80 for a first run.

> >With this setting, the tires will lock up under full braking when cold,
but
> >not when hot.
> >With more usable travel, trail braking is much much easier. Just in time
> >for Mosport, where our league is set to race on Tuesday night!
> >I think I'll try a little higher setting, say 85 or so, till I get some
> lock
> >with hot tires, and then back it off a notch.

> >Thank you ever so much!

by **David No** » Mon, 07 Jun 1999 04:00:00

I agree. I'm not sure why but I can't get a good feel with the Profiler
enabled. When I bought the WF I was initially disappointed as there was a
dramatic difference switching from the TM Nascar pro. I took a tip from this
(RAS) newsgroup and disabled the Profiler and have been very pleased with
the wheel (with CH pedals) :-)
Removing the Profiler will not affect the current driver version.

DN

> Bill,

> No. I do not run the Wingman Profiler software at all. I have installed
> the release version 3.20 that was posted a few days ago, but I no longer
run
> the profiler in the system tray.

> I find that CTFJ replaces the profiler for me, and gives me MUCH better
> control over my Wingman Formula Focrce Wheel.

> GPL is more fun than ever now! Install CTFJ and give it a try, it's worth
> the (minimal) effort required.

> > Brad,

> > Do you use the Logitech Profiler in conjuction with CTFJB ( that is, do
> you
> > load a Logi profile with GPL AS WELL as CTFJB), or do you use it
> standalone?
> > If standalone, do you keep the profiler on the system tray, or do you
> close
> > it down?

> > Reason I'm asking is, I tried the two together with GPL, got a lockup,
and
> > when I re-booted, my Logitech control test panel ( the one with the
wheel,
> > brake,and accelerator panels), was munged up. The wheel icon would not
> > move, nor would the brake one ( it showed pegged all the way to the
> right).
> > A re-install did no good. BTW, the wheel still worked in games
(including
> > GPL!).

> > I had to competely remove all references to Logitech Wingman Formula
> Force,
> > and the driver files, then re-install the CD software, then the 3.20
> update.
> > Needless to say, I'm a little "leery" of repeating this exercise.

> > BTW, I love Bob's stuff - he's been around the flight sim forums for
> > years....

> > Bill

> > >Bob,

> > >I've just been trying out the new update (ctfjb310) that you posted;

> > >http://www.stickworks.com/

> > >In a word, Awesome!

> > >CTFJ now allows me to adjust my braking axis exactly where I want it.
> I've
> > >been trying it with the R axis set at -80 for a first run.

> > >With this setting, the tires will lock up under full braking when cold,
> but
> > >not when hot.
> > >With more usable travel, trail braking is much much easier. Just in
time
> > >for Mosport, where our league is set to race on Tuesday night!
> > >I think I'll try a little higher setting, say 85 or so, till I get some
> > lock
> > >with hot tires, and then back it off a notch.

> > >Thank you ever so much!

rec.autos.simulators

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(

LWMFF, DXTweak, and GPL = 8-(