rec.autos.simulators

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

Joachim Trens

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Joachim Trens » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 02:44:05

I'm noticing a strange understeer in long, fast corners, usually in
off-throttle situations, where I was used to see the car oversteer, like
when I release the throttle. This understeer is very strong, and almost
impossible to get out of. And, it also happens when the tires are apparently
not overheated (not yellow, temps around 200).

I've made the mods you should make for the patch, and made the adjustments
you try to make in for such situations, like springs, brake balance, ride
height, weight distribution, camber, etc., so I wonder, could it be that
those new aero-maps somehow don't work well under certain situations on the
RC's?

Others in my league notice it as well, but only on the road circuits. On the
ovals things seem bright.

Anyone got any comments regarding this?

Achim

jason moy

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by jason moy » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 03:03:59

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:44:05 +0200, "Joachim Trensz"


>I've made the mods you should make for the patch, and made the adjustments
>you try to make in for such situations, like springs, brake balance, ride
>height, weight distribution, camber, etc., so I wonder, could it be that
>those new aero-maps somehow don't work well under certain situations on the
>RC's?

I was under the impression that the aero maps were only changed at
restrictor plate tracks.  Is it possible this is a side effect of the
new suspension geometry or the camber bug being fixed?  If
throttle-off oversteer is no longer happening, I wonder if maybe the
dif model was changed...

I've seen similar understeer at Dover actually.  I was pushing and
lifted while down at the apron and the car still drifted all the way
into the wall without giving my front tires grip.

Jason

Jan Verschuere

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Jan Verschuere » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:46:57

That's because you lose the benifit of the stagger/trackbar when you coast
(diff opens). Got to take off wheel lock, move some weight forward with the
brakes and try to go around the turn again, especially at concrete tracks.

Jan.
=---

jason moy

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by jason moy » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:58:01

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:46:57 GMT, "Jan Verschueren"


>That's because you lose the benifit of the stagger/trackbar when you coast
>(diff opens). Got to take off wheel lock, move some weight forward with the
>brakes and try to go around the turn again, especially at concrete tracks.

I'll try that.  I was more or less noting it because I didn't see that
behavior pre-patch.  A quick lift tucked the nose in nicely before.

Jason

Jorge Lópe

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Jorge Lópe » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:00:54

Andy Wilke has meanwhile said he sees it at the ovals as well. I couldn't
reproduce it there.

It indeed always occurs when coasting or braking very moderately. What you
say sounds plausible, and I tend to think meanwhile it's not the aero-maps,
but it really doesn't feel like anything I've ever encountered in real cars,
and believe me, I've driven all sorts of cars on and over the limit under
every possible condition, even some with locking differentials. It does feel
like flat front tires, so if it is an effect that actually occurs, I'd at
least at this stage feel that it isn't modelled at the correct proportion.

Another friend suggested it could be because we're driving on the rim?

Achim


...

Joachim Trens

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Joachim Trens » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:03:51

Well the understeer I'm describing definitely cannot be cured by a quick
lift.

Achim


...

Haqsa

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Haqsa » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:08:38

What diff?  Don't they still use spools?


Jan Verschuere

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Jan Verschuere » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:42:09

Negative... Indycars use spools, Stock Cars use Detroit lockers... i.e.
closed power side, open coast side.

Jan.
=---

Matt Knutse

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Matt Knutse » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:51:38

Hmm, a scary thought. When the first patch for GPL was released, I felt
exactly the same. The physics were more biased towards heavy understeer -
washing out. Some realism removed. Haven't tried the N2003 patch yet, but I
desperately hope this issue will be fixed...

/Matt

Mika Takal

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Mika Takal » Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:38:47



You may be running the front of the car too low and soft; when you lift the
throttle, front comes down and you lose downforce when it gets too low.

--
Mika Takala

Joachim Trens

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Joachim Trens » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 02:43:52

thanks for the tip, Mika. I have AAMOF tried higher and harder, i.e. up to
5.50 and 350 harder in the bump springs, plus one click stiffer shocks
(resulting in something like 1050/6/5). I've also changed the camber and
castor, well, and about everything else. I'm surprised there isn't more of
an uproar about this. It feels like a pickup with lots of heavy stuff
loaded.

Achim





> > I'm noticing a strange understeer in long, fast corners, usually in
> > off-throttle situations, where I was used to see the car oversteer, like
> > when I release the throttle. This understeer is very strong, and almost
> > impossible to get out of. And, it also happens when the tires are
> apparently
> > not overheated (not yellow, temps around 200).

> You may be running the front of the car too low and soft; when you lift
the
> throttle, front comes down and you lose downforce when it gets too low.

> --
> Mika Takala

Joachim Trens

N2k3 patch - do the draft maps work on add-on RC's?

by Joachim Trens » Tue, 26 Aug 2003 02:40:06

thanks for the info Jason. Didn't it feel like a flat tire?

Achim


> On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:44:05 +0200, "Joachim Trensz"

> >I've made the mods you should make for the patch, and made the
adjustments
> >you try to make in for such situations, like springs, brake balance, ride
> >height, weight distribution, camber, etc., so I wonder, could it be that
> >those new aero-maps somehow don't work well under certain situations on
the
> >RC's?

> I was under the impression that the aero maps were only changed at
> restrictor plate tracks.  Is it possible this is a side effect of the
> new suspension geometry or the camber bug being fixed?  If
> throttle-off oversteer is no longer happening, I wonder if maybe the
> dif model was changed...

> >Others in my league notice it as well, but only on the road circuits. On
the
> >ovals things seem bright.

> I've seen similar understeer at Dover actually.  I was pushing and
> lifted while down at the apron and the car still drifted all the way
> into the wall without giving my front tires grip.

> Jason


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