rec.autos.simulators

...those are the facts and they are undisputed. Agreed.
However, can we also agree that this $6 billion figure is, well,
pure fiction ?
Fiction that may come in handy in a political sense, but fiction
nonetheless...

Cheers!
Cris

Agreed, no argument there.  But Daxe's point was that there's no LOSS to the
company if the person had no intention of buying the game.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. 1:45.49 minutes-GPLRank:342 as of 6/15/00

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Duh.  That's not the issue I was complaining about or addressing.

Or----The company has NOT lost a sale of 39.99 because someone pirated the
software rather than NOT buying it.  OR what about people who wouldn't have
bought the software, but tried a pirated version and liked it, then bought
it?

I agree with this.  I never said I didn't agree with it.  For the last
time..I am NOT trying to justify software piracy.  Explaining over and over
why it is wrong has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about.  If the
headline read "Software Piracy Costs Game Companies 6 Billion $ in Potential
Sales" I wouldn't be complaining about anything, because that is accurate.
6 Billion $ in LOSSES is not accurate.

sheesh!

~daxe

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--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

This is what I initially responded to:

+++++++++

Yeah..I don't get this.  I am no economic genius and I frequently miss
something obvious, but how is someone copying a game (and giving it to
someone who wasn't going to buy it otherwise) costing the developer any
money at all? It's not like hijacking a truckload of the retail packages and
reselling them.  The reproduction of the software isn't costing them
anything and there is no added expense for packaging or shipping or
anything.
+++++++++

I was really just agreeing with the person who made the first comment.  That
person's dispute was also with the wording of the headline and possibly the
article, quoted here:

"The interactive entertainment industry lost more than $6 billion at
retail-$3 billion plus in each of the last two years-to piracy and
counterfeiting, not counting hard-to-define Internet losses"

They obviously came up with these fictional numbers based on estimates of
how many copies of the software are in use without having been purchased.
The only way that is accurate is if every single one of those users would
have bought the software had they not gotten it free.

An observant person makes a distinction between what they are told in the
press and reality, since they are not always the same thing.  Software
piracy is a big problem and the companies have every right to get upset
about it, but manipulating peoples impressions with fictional numbers is not
an acceptable way to get a message across, IMHO.

THAT is what I am complaining about.

~daxe

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        Well, there is another point to be made.  The actions of me trying out
a friend's copy of a game to see if I can run it on my machine doesn't cause
any "losses" per se.  However, pirating and selling software does equate pretty
directly into losses, especially in the case of software that tries to
counterfit as close as possible the original.  That is probably where the
majority of the figure tossed about comes from, from what I can gather.

        And no matter what you may think about trying out games (personally, I
think demos have cost companies more sales from my pocket than anything else),
counterfitting and selling pirated software is a very big problem.

                                        -Tim

I agree this is a genuine loss because money is being exchanged and going to
the wrong hands. That is really what "piracy" is about.  Pirates used to
hijack goods and sell/exchange them themselves.  Perhaps 'pirate' is not the
right term for someone who copies software and gives it away.  When I was
arguing about this I conveniently left the counterfeit aspect out because I
knew it would mix up the issue.

I agree.  I probably balance out a few of the cheaters anyway, because I buy
almost every game that comes out even if I don't expect to like it.  I want
to support the whole sim genre and I like to be able to install a game and
have a reference point for what I read in r.a.s.  I have a whole bunch of
CDs for games that aren't installed.  I used to keep the boxes on shelves (I
like commercial art) until I moved a few years ago and my wife convinced me
to toss them all.   I don't usually bother with a demo download because my
26.400 connection makes the big ones kind of painful and fortunately I don't
have to think too hard about spending 40 or 50$ once or twice a month.

~daxe

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Sudesh

I'd wager it's about the same magnitude of productivity hit as the Usenet.

Stephen

Ash (not getting involved in the discussion)

| Okay. Whatever.
| --
| Regards,
| Bruce Kennewell,
| Canberra, Australia.
| ---------------------------
|

| >
| >


| > > Big difference between the price of a Corvette and that of ***
| > software.
| > > I don't see too many backyard industries involved in the duplication
of
| > > Corvettes, either.
| > >
| > > You can argue until you're blue in the face, Daxe, but the bottom line
| is
| > > that the distribution of copyrighted material without the consent of
the
| > > owner, publisher, distributor or any other interested party is morally
| > > reprehensible and, in the majority of civilsed nations, illegal.
| >
| > Never said it wasn't illegal or morally reprehensible.  That's not what
| I'm
| > arguing about.
| >
| > ~daxe
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
| > http://www.racesimcentral.net/ - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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|
|